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D-day (day) trip - 4/28/2019 11:53:09 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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From: Toronto and Lima
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Hi, I will be working on France (Lille) for 2 weeks,

I need a plan for the weekend in between. I was thinking maybe I should visit d-day beaches, any advice?
would it be worth the long trip?
Caen or Bayeux?
is there anything else better WW2 related? it has to be not too far away; Dunkirk, Dover?, I don't know

thanks in advance

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/28/2019 11:55:56 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 12:04:30 AM

Chickenboy

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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Hi, I will be working on France (Lille) for 2 weeks,

I need a plan for the weekend in between. I was thinking maybe I should visit d-day beaches, any advice?
would it be worth the long trip?
Caen or Bayeux?
is there anything else better WW2 related? it has to be not too far away; Dunkirk, Dover?, I don't know

thanks in advance

Wow. Any of those sound wonderful. You lucky so-and-so.

Dieppe?

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 12:18:48 AM

Jorge_Stanbury

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Yes, Dieppe is actually closer to my base (Lille), but I work all weekdays, I need to travel Friday night, then Saturday for tourism, then Sunday back to Lille, thus I need to pick one location only as I have one day

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/29/2019 12:19:30 AM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 2:52:56 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Yes, Dieppe is actually closer to my base (Lille), but I work all weekdays, I need to travel Friday night, then Saturday for tourism, then Sunday back to Lille, thus I need to pick one location only as I have one day

The Canadians have a museum at Juno Beach. It covers more than just the Canadian participation in D-Day. I'll try and get the link.

EDIT: The link is https://www.junobeach.org/

It appears to be all about the Canadian effort, although I seem to recall someone saying that there was stuff from other nations there. Perhaps some of the equipment was common to US and British forces and certainly there should be some captured German stuff.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 4/29/2019 2:57:48 AM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 4:09:38 AM

bradfordkay

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In one day you should be able to visit Pegasus Bridge, the Juno Beach museum, the museum at Arromanches and Point du Hoc - and still find time to enjoy a lovely meal in one of the small port towns.

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 4/29/2019 5:05:20 AM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 4:36:10 AM

spence

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+1

I went to the D-Day beaches back in 2009 and they were great. The Canadian museum at Juno Beach is really good although it contains a lot about the Canadian contributions to all of WW2 (not just the Normandy Campaign). Nearby there is the Pegasus Bridge but if you are particularly interested in the airborne there is a much better museum in St Mere Eglise (a bit further away) that is dedicated to all the airborne troops (US, British, German) that fought at any time during the war (BTW they still have a paratrooper dumbie hanging from the church steeple in the town square). The Point du Hoc area looks almost exactly like it did in the movie "The Longest Day". There were a lot more places to see captured equipment around the beaches but I only saw them as I drove by.
BTW there is a great restaurant, if I remember correctly, called "Le Poissoniere" just behind Juno Beach. And the remains of the British Mulberry can be seen just down the coast at Arromanches sur Bains (where there is another museum).

If you want to see something interesting that may be a bit closer than the beaches of Normandy then check out YPres/Ieper (the pronunciation depends on whether you speak French or "Old Dutch"). Its only 20 miles or so from Lille (maybe a bit more). And there is one mine dug by the Brits under the German trenches in WW1 that never went off too - if you think that's cool think about what happened in 1955 during a thunderstorm: there were two mines then.
The whole city was destroyed in WW1 and rebuilt since then: there's a great museum in the Cloth Hall as well as at several other places in the area. And EVERY NIGHT, at 8 PM exactly, the Ypres Fire Dept. has a ceremony where they play "The Last Post" (the UK equivalent of Taps) under the Menin Gate (a huge monument to the MIA which couldn't fit all the MIA from the 1st World War so the memorialized the rest at a nearby British cemetery. There were two divisions of Americans that participated in the 5th Battle (I lost track) of Ypres). The ceremony has been held every night since 1929 (except for 4 years when the Germans occupied the place). Even for us Yanks it was very moving. Oh and there is an Irish Bar a block or two to the left of the Menin Gate (as viewed from the South) that really fun to visit too.

< Message edited by spence -- 4/29/2019 5:00:12 AM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 8:11:18 AM

Leandros

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I would recommend the Bastogne area if you haven't been there. There is the Bastogne Memorial as well as a local museum at the central Place MacAuliffe (used to be, anyway). General Patton also has Place called after him - and a Memorial.

Personally, I think the most interesting place which is reachable within a day's car drive from Lille is the WW2 fortress of Eben Emael, on the Belgian border with Germany. A reduced German company captured the fortress in a daring glider attack in the night of May 10th 1940 and held it against its 1.200 defenders untill relieved by reinforcements the following day. Eben Emael was among the most advanced of fortresses in its time (much like the Maginot types), built in the thirties. The German attack also saw the first use of hollow-charge munitions which the many armored cupolas and doors bear evidence of.

The whole fortress is approachable through the village of Eben Emael but is quite difficult to spot from the surroundings.

https://www.fort-eben-emael.be/en/

https://www.facebook.com/pg/fortebenemael/photos/?ref=page_internal

Fred

< Message edited by Leandros -- 4/29/2019 8:27:45 AM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 2:08:49 PM

spence

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quote:

I would recommend the Bastogne area if you haven't been there. There is the Bastogne Memorial as well as a local museum at the central Place MacAuliffe (used to be, anyway). General Patton also has Place called after him - and a Memorial.

There's a large Battle of the Bulge museum right next to the Bastogne Memorial. The Memorial, which looks like a star from above, has maps at various places on top pointing out what was going on near the visible landmarks during the siege. About 30 minutes (by car) away in the village of La Glieze there is the December 1944 Museum with a one of Kampfgruppe Peiper's King Tigers parked in the front yard. The Museum has lots of artifacts of both KG Peiper and the 82nd Airborne that besieged KG Peiper in that village. The Tiger II was abandoned there when Peiper ran out of gas and was later used for bazooka target practice by US troops so it still shows the gashes in that armor caused by that weapon.

https://www.bulge1944.com/battle-of-the-bulge-museums/

Cool places to visit but then again you probably have some actual work to do while in Europe so your time may be limited.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 4:07:58 PM

LargeSlowTarget

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If you have but one day, Normandy and Bastogne are a bit far from Lille - you won't have much time "in situ" to see things.

There are many interesting sites closer to Lille:

The Atlantic Wall Museum (Battery Todt): http://www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr/en/atlantic-wall-museum-todt-battery

V1 & V2 bunker at Eperlecques between Lille and Calais: http://www.leblockhaus.com/en/

V2 bunker near St. Omer between Lille and Calais: https://www.lacoupole-france.co.uk/history-centre/introduction.html

V3 bunker at Mimoyecques near Calais: http://mimoyecques.fr/fr/en/home/

Unfortunately, the "Operation Dynamo Museum" at Dunkirk is closed for renovation until summer.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 4/29/2019 4:08:32 PM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 4:19:40 PM

pontiouspilot

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Do not underestimate the geography....it is widespread. I doubt you could cover all areas and sites in such a short visit. You must rent a car as there is little mass transport between the areas. Car rentals must be done in advance or you will be walking , like I was!! I stayed in Ouistreham (Sword) and enjoyed the town. In 2 days we saw what was to seen there and went up to the Cndn museum at Juno.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 4:27:55 PM

Leandros

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Lille-Bastogne is 250 km. by road - 2h. 30 min..
Lille-Normandy (Caen) is 470 km. - good interrail connection 3h 33 min.
Lille-Eben Emael is 240 km. - according to Google Map 2h. 31m. by road.
Lille-Dunkirk is 3/4 hr. by train - 1 hr. by car.

Bastogne is a bit south of Eben Emael so both in one day would be troublesome.

Enjoy!

Fred

< Message edited by Leandros -- 4/29/2019 4:32:13 PM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 9:39:38 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Hi, I will be working on France (Lille) for 2 weeks,

I need a plan for the weekend in between. I was thinking maybe I should visit d-day beaches, any advice?
would it be worth the long trip?
Caen or Bayeux?
is there anything else better WW2 related? it has to be not too far away; Dunkirk, Dover?, I don't know

thanks in advance

Go to Brugge or Brussels and soak some culture for a day. You're a bit too far from anything D-Day related for a day trip, so your time is better spent elsewhere.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/29/2019 10:26:33 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Go to Brugge or Brussels and soak some culture for a day. You're a bit too far from anything D-Day related for a day trip, so your time is better spent elsewhere.

Thank to all, thanks a lot, really appreciate

I had been in Brugge and Brussels before, and my trip starts in Brussels anyway

It is a full weekend, travel Friday afternoon/ night, one full day at one place, then travel back on Sunday
still it might be too far away, I will check all options and if I end in Normandy beaches I will certainly hire a tour operator as I don't like to rent cars in Europe

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/29/2019 10:27:03 PM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/30/2019 9:28:21 PM

pontiouspilot

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Normandy is quite rural. I would drive there over most places in Europe.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 4/30/2019 9:33:46 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Hi, I will be working on France (Lille) for 2 weeks,

I need a plan for the weekend in between. I was thinking maybe I should visit d-day beaches, any advice?
would it be worth the long trip?
Caen or Bayeux?
is there anything else better WW2 related? it has to be not too far away; Dunkirk, Dover?, I don't know

thanks in advance

Forget all of those other suggestions. Just hop the Eurostar and come to London!!

The Imperial War Museum, RAF Museum, HMS Belfast, Churchill War Rooms, and much more.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/4/2019 12:45:41 PM

fcooke

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Normandy - great use of time. Lot's of little museums, the old Mulberry mentioned - and just great to look over the old guns and the beaches guys had to storm.

The most moving part to me was to visit the American cemetery and the German one. Makes you think about what was lost. Not sure where the Commonwealth one is located but I bet as well done.

If you are feeling really like driving the sub pen in Cherbourg is interesting - with an old French Diesel Electric sub on display as well. I think Daphne class.

On the London side - the IWM museum is no longer a 'grognard' place. Haven't been to Duxford or Hendon recently but they where awesome when I last visited.

Frank

edited to clarify the sub info and not leave people thinking it was a destroyer escort

< Message edited by fcooke -- 5/6/2019 11:04:00 AM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/4/2019 2:13:41 PM

KenchiSulla

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If you are rarely in Europe and want to snif some world war two from Lille, focused on Canadian effort:

- The UK/Canadian sector in Normandy is 4 hours by car (cemetery near the beach with 2000 graves), US sector 4,5 - 5,5 hours as Normandy is quite big
- Canadian cemetery for the '45 battles are around 4 hours by car to the northeast (Holten, beautiful location - 1200 graves)
- Arnhem / Market Garden area is about 2 (Southern edge) to 3 (Northern edge) hours by car to the northeast if that battle interests you. The areas of interest from Eindhoven to Arnhem can all be visited in about 1,5 day. You could even visit another large US Cemetery in Europe @ Margraten with 8300 US graves (about 1 hour from Eindhoven)

General remark - Commonwealth cemeteries are usually smaller and more distributed. USA / German are centralized. There is a big UK one @ Bayeux

So, what interests you - what would you really want to get out of the trip? Let me know and I can offer some help as I know the areas pretty well

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/4/2019 4:08:20 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla

If you are rarely in Europe and want to snif some world war two from Lille, focused on Canadian effort:

- The UK/Canadian sector in Normandy is 4 hours by car (cemetery near the beach with 2000 graves), US sector 4,5 - 5,5 hours as Normandy is quite big
- Canadian cemetery for the '45 battles are around 4 hours by car to the northeast (Holten, beautiful location - 1200 graves)
- Arnhem / Market Garden area is about 2 (Southern edge) to 3 (Northern edge) hours by car to the northeast if that battle interests you. The areas of interest from Eindhoven to Arnhem can all be visited in about 1,5 day. You could even visit another large US Cemetery in Europe @ Margraten with 8300 US graves (about 1 hour from Eindhoven)

General remark - Commonwealth cemeteries are usually smaller and more distributed. USA / German are centralized. There is a big UK one @ Bayeux

So, what interests you - what would you really want to get out of the trip? Let me know and I can offer some help as I know the areas pretty well

Good input from someone living in the area. Not many know/realize that after Caen was taken (a bloody, desperate battle itself) the Canadians had to clear along the North Sea coast which was heavily fortified with concrete emplacements all the way along. So while Patton's tanks streaked across undefended countryside the Canadians slogged along the coast.

The only thing that stopped the Canadian advance was the flooded fields along the approach to Antwerp which forced the Canadians to advance along narrow dikes where German MGs and guns were waiting. The Canadians cleared the Scheldt Estuary up to the islands of Walchernan (sp) and another I can't recall but had no assault boats worthy of an amphibious landing. Monty wanted them to use their little river-crossing boats to assault across a vast expanse of water into a heavily fortified island. (Hitler & Co. knew that as long as he held the estuary, Antwerp port, already taken by the Canadians, could not be used by the Allies.) It took weeks for Monty to respond to Canadian requests for proper landing craft and bombardment support for the crossing to the islands at the mouth of the Scheldt. In the meantime a lot of Canadians died trying to do what Monty foolishly demanded.

To add insult to injury, when the Scheldt was finally cleared and Antwerp port received its first ship, no Canadians were allowed to participate in the parade. Canadian and other Commonwealth opinion of Montgomery is not generally favourable since he seemed to treat them as cannon fodder.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/4/2019 4:54:14 PM

AllenK

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This is an itinerary I have done in Normandy.

Merville Battery museum, Pegasus Bridge and museum (this is a must and I have visited 3 times), then up to the Gold/Sword Beach areas. You can stroll along the beach or promenade and there are a number of nice restaurants where you can have lunch. The afternoon then gives you Juno beach and Arromanches.

Point du Hoc/Omaha is a fair drive onwards. You could do it but would probably have to drop something like Merville or settle for a late finish. Omaha beach is certainly worth visiting and looks to have a good museum judging by the external exhibits. I didn't go in so can't say for certain.

I don't think you can go wrong with whatever you choose but Pegasus Bridge is a bit special. The Longest Day captures the glider assault pretty well but when you walk on the narrow strip of land they touched down on and see the markers for where each glider landed in the dark ...

I was fortunate to be there in 2014 on the day before the 70th anniversary commemoration. All the re-enactment enthusiasts were there, making it quite an occasion. One particularly touching moment was when a RN veteran approached a group of Americans, all in period uniform and with a jeep, and asked if he could have his picture taken with them. "Sir, it would be an honour" was their immediate response and he was seated in the jeep, driven around and had a great time.

< Message edited by AllenK -- 5/4/2019 5:08:23 PM >

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/4/2019 6:47:29 PM

KenchiSulla

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Canadians who were KIA in the battle for the Scheldt Estuary are buried here:

https://www.bndestem.nl/bergen-op-zoom/kaarsen-op-oorlogsbegraafplaatsen-bergen-op-zoom-meer-impact-dan-verwacht~aa35e026/138692762/

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/4/2019 7:11:47 PM

fcooke

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The Scheldt campaign was mishandled badly by Monty. The Allies needed the port working and the overall advance across Europe was hobbled by lack of supplies partly as a result of how long it took to get the port useful. The area should have been a top priority as such but the testosterone between Monty and Patton seems to have got in the way (who could go into Germany first). Why Ike did not intervene and get more resources into the campaign is a mystery to me.

Pegasus bridge - amazing how small the bridge/canal are.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/5/2019 1:12:36 AM

pontiouspilot

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There was very little that wasn�t handled badly by Monty in my humble opinion. Perhaps the only Brit that wasted more Canadians was Lord Louis.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/5/2019 5:07:32 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla

Canadians who were KIA in the battle for the Scheldt Estuary are buried here:

https://www.bndestem.nl/bergen-op-zoom/kaarsen-op-oorlogsbegraafplaatsen-bergen-op-zoom-meer-impact-dan-verwacht~aa35e026/138692762/

Thanks for the link KS. The cemetery looks pretty small relative to the losses suffered, so I suspect there are other small cemeteries where some were buried or some of the bodies were repatriated after the war by their families back in Canada.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/5/2019 5:23:04 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

There was very little that wasn�t handled badly by Monty in my humble opinion. Perhaps the only Brit that wasted more Canadians was Lord Louis.

Agreed, but I saw a documentary that showed that the real purpose of the Dieppe operation was for British Commandos to capture Enigma machines and code books. Dieppe was a big communications center for the KM. That part of the raid succeeded and may have helped the final steps to design the Ultra codebreaking system. That in turn played a key role in the Battle of the Atlantic, air battles and later land battles, so perhaps the sacrifice of the Canadians was not useless after all. That said, the losses could have been reduced considerably with proper intel on beach conditions and German defences.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/5/2019 6:20:49 PM

KenchiSulla

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla

Canadians who were KIA in the battle for the Scheldt Estuary are buried here:

https://www.bndestem.nl/bergen-op-zoom/kaarsen-op-oorlogsbegraafplaatsen-bergen-op-zoom-meer-impact-dan-verwacht~aa35e026/138692762/

Thanks for the link KS. The cemetery looks pretty small relative to the losses suffered, so I suspect there are other small cemeteries where some were buried or some of the bodies were repatriated after the war by their families back in Canada.

Indeed, Commonwealth and UK war casualties are often buried locally. Example:

https://www.tracesofwar.nl/sights/4218/Oorlogsgraven-van-het-Gemenebest-Algemene-Begraafplaats-Emmeloord.htm

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/6/2019 12:28:17 AM

pontiouspilot

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Send in the Irish or the Canucks. I suspect that there were more than a few Canadian veterans who weren�t shedding any tears over the IRAs efforts.

< Message edited by pontiouspilot -- 5/6/2019 12:30:57 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/6/2019 9:59:53 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Send in the Irish or the Canucks. I suspect that there were more than a few Canadian veterans who weren�t shedding any tears over the IRAs efforts.

warspite1

Well there�s a candidate for crass post of the year.

quote:

Send in the�. Canucks.

Commonwealth forces engage in a poorly conceived, poorly planned and poorly executed operation in World War II. Well Dieppe was hardly a first was it? But of course what you are insinuating is that the British sent in �colonials� to do the dirty work. Of course that completely ignores the debacle in Norway, or in France but I don�t want to deny you your wish to feel victimised � you can wallow in that to your heart�s content � and, as you will know, you are not alone in Canada � but you could always try and educate yourself with the link below about another 'favourite' - Gallipoli, and if you can�t be bothered to read it all � go straight to the Propaganda section, but I recommend you read it all.

http://diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/ww1/anzac/gallipoli-facts.htm#Propaganda

Indeed there are plenty from these islands who are entitled to feel the same (but let�s not let the facts get in the way of a well ridden hobby-horse you so clearly are eager to mount).

quote:

�Send in the Irish�.

And what period are you talking about here? I wouldn�t be surprised if you were talking about WWII, but I hope you weren�t for your sake. Here � educate yourself and read this.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/in-service-to-their-country-moving-tales-of-irishmen-who-fought-in-wwii-350818.html

If you are talking about earlier history then I would have thought you would have been fully aware that historically, poverty was probably the army�s biggest recruiter � and Ireland and Scotland provided a higher proportion of troops for the British Army because of it. That�s just a fact of life. But perhaps you can give me an example of where the �Irish� were singled out in a specific campaign or battle?

But then we have the really unfortunate part of your post:

quote:

�I suspect that there were more than a few Canadian veterans who weren�t shedding any tears over the IRAs efforts�.

According to your seriously mis-guided and disrespectful comment, you link Canadian veterans (and any legitimate anger and resentment they may have held against a Government/Individuals that sent them into battle) with automatic support for a terrorist group?! How dare you try and speak for them. Maybe some veterans were from Irish stock and supported a united Ireland politically � but what links that with Dieppe, and I say again, how dare you speak for them and assume their support for a terrorist group?

The Irish Republican Army was a terrorist outfit. It would be easy for me to recount tale after harrowing, heart-breaking tale of atrocities they carried out against innocent men, women and children. And I could do the same for the loyalist terrorist groups. But there is no point. One group is no worse than the other � Catholic or Protestant, Republican or Loyalist, pro-Irish or pro-British � it doesn�t matter. If one believes blowing arms and legs off the innocent is justified then they are scum. Or do you reserve that opprobrium only for some?

Even today you probably actually believe that the British Government was fighting a colonial war with the IRA over Northern Ireland during �The Troubles�. But that level of mis-understanding is common amongst those that can�t be bothered to trouble themselves with facts and the truth. Far easier to get off on hyperbole and prejudice. Or you could try and understand. As a start try reading Making Sense of The Troubles (McKittrick and McVea).

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/6/2019 12:39:09 PM >

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Post #: 27

RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/6/2019 4:45:50 PM

pontiouspilot

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Thanks for being right. All I said was that there were many bitter veterans over unfortunate mistakes. I�m not into debating with you whether there is any empirical basis for the feeling. There was no love here for lord Louis .....However he met his unfortunate demise.

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/6/2019 5:05:48 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Thanks for being right. All I said was that there were many bitter veterans over unfortunate mistakes. I�m not into debating with you whether there is any empirical basis for the feeling. There was no love here for lord Louis .....However he met his unfortunate demise.

I am not a WWII veteran but was in the Canadian Forces, but I do not subscribe to terrorism for any rationale. My impression of Mountbatten is that he was not aware of his shortcomings and got most of his positions because of his status in British society. Many officers at the time did. I don't think he was deliberately sacrificing Canadians at Dieppe but he could have ensured better intel and support for the operation.

But lots of Allied General officers made similar miscalculations that got a lot of people killed. I am not impressed by Lord Mountbatten, but I am not about to say "Serves him right" to the IRA bombing. Smoldering desires for vengeance are evil motivations that keep too much of the world's violence going.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: D-day (day) trip - 5/7/2019 4:13:20 AM

spence

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Without renting a car I wish you luck getting to/from Normandy but you may find Ypres/Ieper interesting. There's quite a bit of history in the vicinity relating to the First World War and a lot of it relates to Canada: "In Flanders Fields the poppies grow, between the crosses row on row" (1st Battle of Ypres), the first poison gas attack (2nd Battle of Ypres), Passchendaele/3rd Battle of Ypres (nearby village finally taken by the Canadian Corps after 4 months, the mining offensive (June 1917), The Wipers Times (Are You a Victim of Optimism?), the 4th Battle of Ypres, the 5th Battle of Ypres. There's lots of museums in and around the town, quite a few graveyards of both sides, a gigantic monument to the Commonwealth MIA on which the builders ran out of space (it only lists those MIA up to April 1917 - the rest are on a monument in Tyn Got Cemetery). And there is a "Last Post" ceremony every night at 8PM under said monument by the Ypres/Ieper Fire Brigade.

To top it off the city is only a little over 2 hrs away by train or bus from Lille (and only half an hour by car).

In case you're wondering Belgium has two official languages: French and Flemish (sort of an old Dutch). The town was known as Ypres when the French part of the country was in the ascendant during WW1 and known as Ieper since it is in the Flemish part of the country.

< Message edited by spence -- 5/7/2019 4:18:19 AM >

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