Bug report WitP Rel 1.52

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Bug report WitP Rel 1.52

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Bug report WitP Rel 1.52

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Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 5:58:58 PM

Rainer

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Bug report WitP Rel. 1.52

Current game started with rel 1.5, patched to 1.51, patched to 1.52
"J:\Matrix Games\War in the Pacific\War in the Pacific.exe" -altFont
Human Allies versus AI Japanese
Scenario 15, no mods
All areas computer control except SE
Level Very Hard
Daily turns
Game date: June 19, 1942
Saves available as indicated

Issues apparently fixed with 1.52:

- repeated attacks on already occupied dot bases (Dobodura): fixed
- Automatic Convoy System: fixed

Issues not addressed by rel 1.52:

- Units not following orders:

1. 32nd USA Div stationed at Townsville (Future Objective Gili Gili) started on its own to march towards Brisbane. A turn later it returned to Townsville. Since then stays there as ordered.

2. Aus 6th Div ordered to march from Port Moresby towards Buna. Future objective set to Buna. The unit marched one hex needing several turns because of the difficult terrain (mountains). One turn after entering the hex adjacent to Port Moresby the unit returned on its own towards Port Moresby, future objective set to Port Moresby by the game.
Note: After 1st turn with rel 1.52 the unit - ordered again to march towards Buns, including setting future objective Buna - still moves toward Buna but has future objective set by the game for Townsville.
SAVE available.

3. Air units in Port Moresby set to attack specific targets have their target settings reset by the game to "commanders discretion" next turn by the game.
SAVE available.

4. 51st Base Force has always tiny fragments at Cooktown and Cairns. Main body stationed at Port Moresby. When the unit came into being ("arrived") in San Francisco those fragments a turn later popped up in Cooktown and Cairns, the main body still being in SF.
Picking up the fragments by ship doesn't help. Loading the fragments and moving them to Port Moresby results in popping up of same fragments next turn at Cooktown and Cairns again. Each turn during "house keeping" the message "51st Base Force recombines" pops up three times.
Note1: This behaviour of 51st Base Force has been observed since back to initial release.
Note2: There is at least another unit (804th EAB, main body in Hawaii) which also never stops "recombining".
Note3: Area SE divided by a single column of S area hexes (50,90 down to 50,148). May or may not be related to "inobedient" LCUs. Has been observed since initial release.
SAVE available.

5. Even at level "Very Hard" Japanese forces cannot defeat Allied forces at Bataan. June 19, 1942 still 27,000 Allied, fort level 0. Japanese forces "shock" or "deliberate" attacking each turn, resulting in devastating losses for Japanese each turn.
Note: This is obviously not a bug but probably an indicator for imbalanced game set up (OOB).
SAVE available.

EDIT Game Date June 22, 1942: Bataan surrendered to the Japanese Forces (just to keep the record straight and clean).

Tip for fellow testers: I make it a habit to save game turns in slots corresponding to game date. E.g., turn June 15, 1942 is saved into slot 15. That way a month can be traced back with saves.

< Message edited by Rainer -- 6/11/2005 10:48:04 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 6:44:07 PM

Mr.Frag

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Those sound like Zone is under computer control. Is it?

(in reply to Rainer)

Post #: 2

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 7:28:45 PM

Rainer

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From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
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All zones Computer Control except SE as stated in bug report.

Additional comment: I regard the issue with (human controlled) LCUs not following orders to be somewhat serious. Players, especially those not extremely enthusiastic about WitP, may be tempted to give up too early because "the game doesn't work", thus missing the great experience the game really provides.

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RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 8:24:12 PM

Mr.Frag

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It is likely a problem with the orders being changed by the AI, not an issue of them not following your orders. If you've watched the turn sequence, you'll see the AI issues orders for each zone after you end the turn.

The question is why of course ... I've asked Mike for some more detail on exactly how this interaction takes place.

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Post #: 4

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 8:31:24 PM

Rainer

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quote:

If you've watched the turn sequence, you'll see the AI issues orders for each zone after you end the turn.

Not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Of course I watch the turns, but never saw AI orders issued to zones under human control (except those "re-combine" messages which aren't really orders). Then again, I usually hit the ESC button after ending the current turn, so messages flash by rather quickly ...

Next test I will not hit the ESC key to see what happens. I'll report if I find something new.

EDIT: Nearly forgot: of course you're right with the AI changing orders. My term "not following orders" is just coined to describe the effect.

< Message edited by Rainer -- 6/10/2005 8:33:02 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 9:06:09 PM

Rainer

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To check this I watched a full sequence without ESC accelleration. There was no message indicating any changes of orders by AI. Still, AUS 6th Div has future objective set to Townsville, and air units at Port Moresby have their assigned targets reset to "commanders discretion".

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Post #: 6

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 9:08:51 PM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

EDIT: Nearly forgot: of course you're right with the AI changing orders. My term "not following orders" is just coined to describe the effect.

Understood ... just trying to help with understanding of the effect.

As you can imagine, those are two vastly different things.

Just want to make sure we are talking apples to apples. (ie: the orders you see the following day are *not* the orders you issued vs the orders you issued are still set yet the unit did something else.)

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Post #: 7

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 11:22:18 PM

Rainer

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Good point.
The orders are changed by the game.
Saves (2, one before, one after) have been send with explanations as requested.

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Post #: 8

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 11:34:54 PM

Bradley7735

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Rainier,

From my take on your issue, I think the game is working as designed.

1: you have SW Pacific, S Pacific and Australia all on computer control.
2: you are issuing orders to units that are in one of those 3 regions.
3: The computer will give orders to those units because they are in a computer controlled region.

Step 2 is the reduntant step. 1 and 3 are working as designed. If you want to issue orders to units in a certain regions, put the region on human control.

At least that is my take on the issue.

bc

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Post #: 9

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/10/2005 11:59:12 PM

Mr.Frag

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Confirmed problem ... The AI is reaching it's grubby paws a tad too far.

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Post #: 10

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/11/2005 12:14:26 AM

Rainer

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Hi Bradley,
thanks for your message.
SE Zone is under Human Control.
None of the units mentioned is under Computer Control.
Sorry if I was unclear on the control zone issue.
Best wishes
Rainer

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RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/11/2005 12:28:43 AM

Bradley7735

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My bad. I was thinking that SE was SE Asia. Not the SE quadrant of the map. SE of course would include Eastern Australia.

bc

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RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/11/2005 12:35:57 AM

Rainer

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You're right. And it's a good reminder for me to be as specific as can be. It didn't even occur to me that SE could be misunderstood. But of course it could.
Next time I'll write SE quadrant.
And it is NOT hair splitting.
Those beta testers and developers need our feedback to be as clear and as concise as possible.
You helped me with that.
Thanks
Rainer

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RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/11/2005 11:10:21 PM

Mr.Frag

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Rainer,

I spent some time on the phone discussing this one with Mike Woods, lead developer. What is happening is that the AI routines have a plan and sometimes the plan does not fit within the zones for computer control as set by the player.

Much as I can understand the frustration here where you give an order and it is countermanded by the AI, the risk of modifications in this area of the code which also runs the Computer player is extremely high.

It is very likely that changes made here which are extremely tough to test would cause problems elsewhere starting a never ending chain of break/fix with no real fix in the end. Gary Grigsby spent roughly 3 years working in this area of the code to get it to offer up some measure of historical recreation for the non email players.

This one falls in the catagory of "can't be fixed". Sorry about that.

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Post #: 14

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/12/2005 12:54:22 AM

Bodhi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Tip for fellow testers: I make it a habit to save game turns in slots corresponding to game date. E.g., turn June 15, 1942 is saved into slot 15. That way a month can be traced back with saves.

Another tip to fellow users, Bodhi's WitP utility can archive game saves, either automatically or manually, with save slot and game date appended to file name.

_____________________________

Bodhi

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Post #: 15

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/12/2005 1:42:08 AM

PBYPilot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Rainer,

I spent some time on the phone discussing this one with Mike Woods, lead developer. What is happening is that the AI routines have a plan and sometimes the plan does not fit within the zones for computer control as set by the player.

{snip}

This one falls in the catagory of "can't be fixed". Sorry about that.

Mr. Frag, based on your conversation with Mike Woods, can you give some idea about the extent of the problem? Does it mainly happed to units that are close to the computer controlled areas? Does it happen at all if all areas are set to human control? I'd guess not, based on your description, but would like confirmation of that, if possible.

Thanks in advance,
PBYPilot

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Post #: 16

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/12/2005 5:18:35 AM

Mr.Frag

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It sounded like it actually tracks back to the unit's command, various commands have preplanned roles hardcoded in the AI as Mike explained it.

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Post #: 17

RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/12/2005 8:02:32 AM

PBYPilot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It sounded like it actually tracks back to the unit's command, various commands have preplanned roles hardcoded in the AI as Mike explained it.

Well, that would make sense. Maybe a way around the problem is to make sure that units under a given headquarters that is in a computer controlled area are not expected to play major roles outside of what the AI wants them to do.

And that frankly doesn't sound unrealistic.

Thanks for the info,
PBYPilot

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RE: Bug report WitP Rel 1.52 - 6/12/2005 6:54:25 PM

Rainer

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Mr Frag,
thank you for your support.
As I see it, the whole thing (human orders to LCUs changed by AI) is not a show stopper. Just irritating as long as you don't know where it comes from.

Of course, if that would continue when the campaign develops, say into 1943/1944, and the SWPac Forces (McArthur) still cannot be (fully) controlled by the Human Player, this would be a different thing.
In due time I will report on this, if AI continues to interfere (or "AI is reaching it's grubby paws a tad too far").

Again, thank you for your support and efforts.
Best wishes
Rainer

Tip to Fellow Players: Certain "irregularities" of the game I consider to be "broken chain of command" or so. In reality very often things did not develop the way the area commanders expected. Sometimes local commanders - without directly disobeying orders - did or were forced by events to do something totally different than expected. That's what WitP (the AI component) does also, either by design or by "irregularities".

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Post #: 19

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Bug report WitP Rel 1.52

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