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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Sub Ops Page: [1]
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Sub Ops - 6/16/2005 6:49:22 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I've been playong Scen 15 v1.5

ASW seems to be much more realistic in this patch. A/c are now attacking and hitting subs, mostly only damaging them. ASW TFs will attack subs but often fail to drop D/Cs (I assume they fail to find the sub). When they do, damage is not certain unless the attack is in shallow water. Allied ASW in much more lethal then Japanese.

Now the bad news Auto Sub Ops is rubbish.

I started the game with Auto sub ops turn on.


  • My subs followed Japan TFs all over the map e.g short range boats (S-boats) based in Luganville went to to Taan or Pescadores. By the time they got there it was time to come back.
  • Sub TFs were formed in ports without going anywhere.
  • Setting Home ports was impossible as the AI changed it.
  • Sometimes damaged Subs were reformed into TF.
  • Ports with AS ships in them were often ignored.
  • My subs did attack quite successfully (Dutch and British that is) but all suffered a lot of damage due to the AI setting patrol areas in Japan occupied ports or shallow water.


I've now turned Auto sub off, setting each Sub TF to Computer control after a patrol hex has been set. This resulting in the folowing problems:

  • Subs no longer follow TFs
  • Subs make very few attacks probably because the don't follow TFs
  • Subs don't move from the patrol hex.


I've alway been under the impression that subs were set a patrol area (e.g In the game this could be represented by a hex grid) with limited ability to leave the area, and if they did they had to return. Why wasn't this used in the game.






Post #: 1
RE: Sub Ops - 6/16/2005 7:04:30 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		It seems to me that people have advocated leaving "Auto Sub Ops" off while sending subs to a location under Human Control, but once they arrive switching them to Computer Control. I cannot confirm this, as I keep forgetting to switch them, but I believe that I have heard doing so will allow your subs to start following TFs they have sighted, but otherwise they will not leave the patrol area until low on fuel or ammo.


Strange occurance in my game last night: the sub USS Sailfish sighted a convoy and attacked, torps failed to detonate and the escort nailed her with three depth charges. Moments later a seperate ASW attack occured, the Sailfish "dove to deeper water" (or however the combat report says it) and the DDs in the ASW group attacked it with their guns, getting 11 hits and sending her to Davy Jones Locker. I'm not pissed, because the three depth charge hits she recieved after her own attack were probably enough to put her under, but it did seem wierd to see the "diving deeper" message just before the DDs guns started firing. My personal explanation is that she was surfaced trying to repair when the ASW group found her.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 2
RE: Sub Ops - 6/16/2005 7:06:48 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Its a logical explanation for your incident Brad but whetehr the game had that in mind is another question

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 3
RE: Sub Ops - 6/16/2005 8:23:04 PM   
invernomuto


Posts: 986
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

It seems to me that people have advocated leaving "Auto Sub Ops" off while sending subs to a location under Human Control, but once they arrive switching them to Computer Control. I cannot confirm this, as I keep forgetting to switch them, but I believe that I have heard doing so will allow your subs to start following TFs they have sighted, but otherwise they will not leave the patrol area until low on fuel or ammo.


Could someone confirm this please?
I have my subs in human control and they do not follow enemy TFs, they stay in their patrol hex. If I set computer control they will hunt for enemy shipping?

Bye

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 4
RE: Sub Ops - 6/16/2005 8:44:13 PM   
testarossa


Posts: 952
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: invernomuto
If I set computer control they will hunt for enemy shipping?
Bye


They will try to follow spotted TFs. I don't really think it's good, cause you have to move your sub after they were spotted by ASW sqs. and AI doens't do it. And all Jap players have the routes from DEI to Japan covered by ASW sq., with especially heavy coverage around Formosa.

(in reply to invernomuto)
Post #: 5
RE: Sub Ops - 6/16/2005 8:56:18 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		What it comes down to, for good or for bad, is that to get the most out of your subs, you need to manually control them.

A lot of people don't like that micromanagement, but to do otherwise is going to get a lot of weird results/excessive losses/etc. to your boats.

Witp is a game of micromanagement. The AI just can't keep up, and nothing's going to change that unless we hook a Cray up to this puppy.

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to testarossa)
Post #: 6
RE: Sub Ops - 6/17/2005 5:01:09 AM   
Freedom205

 

Posts: 274
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Michigan USA
Status: offline 		agreed, micro-management is required, as is changinf almost all the sub commanders puting the best crews with the best commanders

(in reply to madflava13)
Post #: 7
RE: Sub Ops - 6/17/2005 5:31:44 AM   
Burzmali

 

Posts: 312
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Boston
Status: offline 		If the activity involves the word "auto", it works poorly at best. Bask in the micromanagement, for it is the one true path of WITP.

(in reply to Freedom205)
Post #: 8
RE: Sub Ops - 6/17/2005 5:38:04 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Only way auto sub ops would have worked is if the player got to segment the Pacific into patrol zones and the subs were organized into admisistrative groups (squadrons/flottilas). Player could then assign a patrol zone to a squadron/flotilla, set a patrol frequency slider, and let the squadron subs rotate through the patrol zone.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Burzmali)
Post #: 9
RE: Sub Ops - 6/17/2005 8:51:53 AM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
Status: offline 		Auto sub works ok in games agaisnt the AI. Order them to the desired operation area and turn them over to computer.

Against a human, you better move all of your subs every turn if you want them to live very long.

_____________________________


(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 10
RE: Sub Ops - 6/17/2005 12:42:44 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Only way auto sub ops would have worked is if the player got to segment the Pacific into patrol zones and the subs were organized into admisistrative groups (squadrons/flottilas). Player could then assign a patrol zone to a squadron/flotilla, set a patrol frequency slider, and let the squadron subs rotate through the patrol zone.


That would be the ideal way to do it.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 11
RE: Sub Ops - 6/17/2005 12:47:41 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

It seems to me that people have advocated leaving "Auto Sub Ops" off while sending subs to a location under Human Control, but once they arrive switching them to Computer Control. I cannot confirm this, as I keep forgetting to switch them, but I believe that I have heard doing so will allow your subs to start following TFs they have sighted, but otherwise they will not leave the patrol area until low on fuel or ammo.



Currently I order by subs to a patrol area and turn them over to the computer immediately. Are you saying that I turn them over to the computer once they get to the patrol area? I'll try it anyway, pity you can't see a list of computer controlled TF though.

(in reply to doktorblood)
Post #: 12
RE: Sub Ops - 6/18/2005 9:55:42 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I've just noticed another problem when auto sub is off. When the Sub TF is set to computer the Sub does not return to port when low on fuel.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 13
RE: Sub Ops - 6/18/2005 10:05:49 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		With 1.5 they will return when very low on fuel.
They still need to be watched.
I use the TF menu showing only the Sub TF's every 3 or 4 days.
Just to be sure.

_____________________________


(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 14
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