Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War I] >> Guns of August 1914 - 1918 >> Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago?

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Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 7/23/2005 4:28:56 AM

jchastain

Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
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Hey Guys -
There is a question on the table in the Guns of August 1914 - 1918 forum that I believe deserves an answer. Apparently some people preordered the game 3 years ago and not only has it still not been released, but they cannot even get a status on the game. I think basic decency suggests that they are owed some response.

Post #: 1

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 7/23/2005 4:55:18 AM

Paul Vebber

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From: Portsmouth RI
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Like I said in the other forum, pre-orders made before we got involved are a bad situation, but one we can address only by doing our best to honor the commitment, and hopefully demonstrate to developers the dangers of early pre-orders.

(in reply to jchastain)

Post #: 2

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 7/23/2005 5:18:35 AM

jchastain

Posts: 2164
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From: Marietta, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Vebber

Like I said in the other forum, pre-orders made before we got involved are a bad situation, but one we can address only by doing our best to honor the commitment, and hopefully demonstrate to developers the dangers of early pre-orders.

Thanks for responding Paul. I agree it is one of those situations that is best avoided entirely. But at this point, I believe what people most want is simply an accurate status of the project. And while the presale occured before Matrix was involved, I believe that when you take a degree of control over a project with pre-existing obligations that you assume a certain degree of responsibility - perhaps not the legal liability, but certainly it is incumbant upon you to give those people some information regarding the product that they are owed that is now under your control.

My real intent here was to bring the topic some visibility that has been lacking. Now that you have responded I'll drop the subject on this board. But on a personal level, I continue to believe that those people deserve an accurate accounting of the status of the project and I hope that you will ask for it to be given to them. Thanks.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 3

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 7/23/2005 5:28:49 AM

Paul Vebber

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From: Portsmouth RI
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I'm sure Frank will do that at his earliest opportunity. In many cases when we have small teams working projects with individual developers, its "work or talk about work" and its unbelievable how fast time gets away from you when you are trying to juggle things.

In a perfect world every project would have lively reporting every week, but that can have its downside as fans can't understand why some things take so long.

At this point in our development we think people would like to have more projects resulting in more games they can play, rather than fewer games they know more than they probably want to about why they don't have yet.

A tough balancing act and one we are always "sine waving" around in different projects - some being left too much adrift, others with too many course corrections.

We greatly appreciate how generally understanding most of you are!

Thanks!

< Message edited by Paul Vebber -- 7/23/2005 5:31:34 AM >

(in reply to jchastain)

Post #: 4

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 8/1/2005 5:26:33 PM

jchastain

Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Vebber

I'm sure Frank will do that at his earliest opportunity.

Paul -
Yet another week has passed since your comments and still there has been no update for the fans of this game, including those who paid for it 3 years ago. I continue to believe those folks deserve to know the status of the product. That really isn't an unreasonable thing to ask. And I will now add that there has been ample time for even the businest developer to provide an update. I respectfully submit that it is likely time for a bit of active management.

quote:

In a perfect world every project would have lively reporting every week, but that can have its downside as fans can't understand why some things take so long.

Just for the record, the last update was on 4/19 when Frank stated that the product was ready for testing. I don't think anyone is asking for weekly reports - Monthly updates would be quite nice. But at this point, it has been more than an entire quarter. If the status is that it will be several more months, then fine - just tell people that. But Frank has taken people's money and owes them a product. I think he needs to tell them what is being done to fulfill his promise to deliver. And since Matrix now has a degree of control over the project, I would hope that you would be actively encouraging that level of communication. Besides, now it is you who has promised an update and it is your credibility that is also on the line.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. And I'm not the one who paid for the game so I have no right to demand anything. But I do want to ensure the situation is getting proper visibility as I believe a ball has been dropped here that really needs to be picked up.

Management 101: Do what you say you will do
Management 102: Be very careful you think things through before opening your mouth

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 5

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 8/1/2005 5:42:00 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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Let me chime in here...

Guns of August went into what we would call the "final product review" stage and we all decided that some additional development work was required. Therefore, it's back in final development rather than in a strictly testing stage. Frank is currently split between a few projects and cannot devote 100% of his time to Guns of August. However, it is still on the schedule for this year and will be released as soon as we all feel that it is ready. I'm very sorry about the pre-Matrix pre-sales situation, but the best we can do now is to continue to move things along.

I agree that we should post more frequent updates on this and all of our projects. There are always good reasons why an update is not posted, but we need to improve that.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to jchastain)

Post #: 6

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 8/1/2005 6:40:42 PM

jchastain

Posts: 2164
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From: Marietta, GA
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Thanks Erik. I think that is a pretty fair accounting of where the project is. I think that is really all that anyone was asking for.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 7

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 8/5/2005 9:17:28 AM

AaronTPV

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I can understand why Matrix has decided to focus on other projects: although I'd like to see this title released, there are others that I'd like to see finished just as much, or more, and many of the other projects are probably either further along, more popular, more lucrative, etc. At the end of the day, many of us are like the proverbial chick begging its mother for its regurgitated meal (which is not to say that your software is like the "regurgitated" part, but rather the meal if you will). Unfortunately, after reading these boards off and on for the last few years, it always seems as though there is never enough to go around--I'll leave off the throw up metaphor�and I�ve wondered if perhaps Matrix has taken on too many projects for its given resources. Another way of looking at this might be to say that maybe some of these projects should probably have remained unannounced until they were much further along.

On the other hand, there might be very good reasons for the ways in which Matrix has chosen to handle announcements, delays, etc. I think in that event, if Matrix has taken on a project, then jchastain has a very good point in that it is incumbent upon Matrix to provide at least some sort of minimalistic updates; frankly, I�d argue that this is really as much for Matrix�s benefit as for the consumer�s since it will help to quiet those long-winded, screeching little chickadees�.. like me�..

All the best,
Aaron

(in reply to jchastain)

Post #: 8

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 8/5/2005 10:15:30 AM

Fred98

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From: Wollondilly, Sydney
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AaronTPV
I can understand why Matrix has decided to focus on other projects...........

Its not Matrix, its the developer

_____________________________

(in reply to AaronTPV)

Post #: 9

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 8/6/2005 6:43:50 AM

AaronTPV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: AaronTPV
I can understand why Matrix has decided to focus on other projects...........

Its not Matrix, its the developer

While I understand your point Joe, that's really beside the point. Matrix is still the front end of this deal and would, I would hope at least, have some clout in how their products are handled. Matrix chooses which products to place under their moniker, which to announce, which to market, etc. Is it really true that Matrix had to announce this game when they acquired the rights?

-Aaron

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 10

RE: Still awaiting a game that was paid for 3 YEARS ago? - 8/6/2005 7:13:01 AM

jchastain

Posts: 2164
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AaronTPV

While I understand your point Joe, that's really beside the point. Matrix is still the front end of this deal and would, I would hope at least, have some clout in how their products are handled. Matrix chooses which products to place under their moniker, which to announce, which to market, etc. Is it really true that Matrix had to announce this game when they acquired the rights?

-Aaron

Perhaps they didn't HAVE TO announce the game at acquisition, it would have created an entirely new set of issues had they chosen not to. People would still have been asking for status. One would assume the developers would still have been in communication with the community. It would have been much worse to just disappear off the radar entirely. So, should developers be communicating but not permitted to discuss the most significant piece of news? And when Matrix, as publisher, asked them to do something how would they explain the sudden change of direction? As Matrix, wouldn't you rather have the communication here where it can be monitored rather than off somewhere that you do not have any visibility? And don't you want to bring visibility to the title by exposing it to all the people who flow through this site for other games?

They didn't absolutely have to announce the title, but I just don't see how it could have made sense for them not to do so. And as the publisher, they really do have a limited level of control over the project. It is not as if they own the developer - they have a business relationship but not direct control. That said, as I commented before, I believe that when they enter into that relationship they should be expected to do so with eyes wide open and to understand any existing commitments and factor them into their decisions. In this case, I thought that people's request for status was very reasonable in light of the history and the fact that more than 3 months had passed since they were given a report that made it seem that release was potentially close at hand. Normally, that request should have been addressed by the developers but for whatever reason (and there are plenty of perfectly valid reasons why that might be the case) he was not responding. In that case, I believe that Matrix did have at least some obligation to follow up and provide some leadership as their role as publisher includes a degree of customer liaison responsibility.

Paul's message indicated he would attempt to ensure additional status was provided. At that point, I believe that Matrix had additional obligation to ensure that a status was in fact provided as their name was now attached to the promise. All that said, Erik's post above provided the requested status in a fairly thorough manner. And with his post, I believe this matter was resolved in a satisfactory way. All people were ever asking for was an accurate status. And that is what we received. Thanks again to Erik for being so forthright.

(in reply to AaronTPV)

Post #: 11