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devices- Accururacy - 3/12/2006 9:33:02 PM   
Iron Duke


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Status: offline 		Hi,

Is accuracy just simply accuracy? if a device has an accuracy of 50 does it mean , that it will hit the target 50% of the time ?

can anybody answer

cheers

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/12/2006 9:37:13 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Probably... But, like with a bazillion other pieces of the game engine, we don't know for sure. I've always assumed it to be a basic percentile when I've defined new devices.

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/12/2006 9:45:50 PM   
Iron Duke


Posts: 529
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: UK
Status: offline 		Hi,

I was leaning that way myself but on looking at the accuracy values of bombs why would they be different surely its the skill of the bombadier/pilot that puts the bomb on target.

ie a 4000lb GP bomb has 90 accuracy --- 90% accuracy?
a 250lb GP Bomb has 12 accuracy ---- 12% accuracy?

may be missing something but doesn't look right

cheers

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/12/2006 9:53:04 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Hmm... Maybe "Accuracy" is a combination of Accuracy and Area-of-Effect? The device list does have an Effect attribute, but it doesn't include such a thing as blast radius...

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/13/2006 3:49:22 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke


ie a 4000lb GP bomb has 90 accuracy --- 90% accuracy?
a 250lb GP Bomb has 12 accuracy ---- 12% accuracy?



I saw one post comment on the fact that heavier bombs take less wind drift and fly more stably as well. That might account for part of this difference.

And, no, unfortunately I do not know the answer to your basic question.

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/13/2006 12:14:10 PM   
el cid again

 

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quote:

Probably... But, like with a bazillion other pieces of the game engine, we don't know for sure. I've always assumed it to be a basic percentile when I've defined new devices.


Accuracy is an exceptional case: it is DEFINED IN THE MANUAL!

Accuracy for naval gunnery is ROF times 10. [Effect is weight of shell]

For automatic guns it is a slightly more complex function: it involves effect as well as accuracy, and if you do not do both as a set, you are out of sync with the other devices in the game. In this case, divide ROF by 10 AND AT THE SAME TIME multiply the weight of shell by 10.

For aircraft guns it is square root of ROF. There are probably other special cases.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 3/13/2006 12:19:07 PM >

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/13/2006 12:23:11 PM   
el cid again

 

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Hmm... Maybe "Accuracy" is a combination of Accuracy and Area-of-Effect? The device list does have an Effect attribute, but it doesn't include such a thing as blast radius...


The anti-armor value in the database = exactly the penetration value of the device. For a high velocity gun at short range (the case used),
penetration is 1.75 times caliber. [This is correct for shells in the 2700-3000 feet/sec range.]

The anti-soft value probably should be the square root of the effect value (nominally shell weight). This would then account for blast radius causing effect to be the square root of distance. It is more complicated than this - not all shells have an equal proportion of explosive - not all explosives are identical - but it is a very good starting point. We know the shell weights and bomb weights - but we don't always know everything else.

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/13/2006 10:56:00 PM   
akdreemer


Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

Hmm... Maybe "Accuracy" is a combination of Accuracy and Area-of-Effect? The device list does have an Effect attribute, but it doesn't include such a thing as blast radius...


The anti-armor value in the database = exactly the penetration value of the device. For a high velocity gun at short range (the case used),
penetration is 1.75 times caliber. [This is correct for shells in the 2700-3000 feet/sec range.]


I too have found ballistics interesting, especially the effects of shell type/velocity and penetration. The above statement is only at the muzzle, thus penetration is dependent on range, shell type, and the degree of striking angle. Penetration is usually measured using a homogenous rolled armor plate with the sheel striking at a 90deg angle (right angle to th surface of the plate) at various ranges.

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/13/2006 11:05:16 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		We weren't talking about penetration, but effect here...

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/13/2006 11:06:07 PM   
akdreemer


Posts: 1028
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From: Anchorage, Alaska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

Hmm... Maybe "Accuracy" is a combination of Accuracy and Area-of-Effect? The device list does have an Effect attribute, but it doesn't include such a thing as blast radius...


The anti-soft value probably should be the square root of the effect value (nominally shell weight). This would then account for blast radius causing effect to be the square root of distance. It is more complicated than this - not all shells have an equal proportion of explosive - not all explosives are identical - but it is a very good starting point. We know the shell weights and bomb weights - but we don't always know everything else.


An interesting example comes from a comparison of the American 75mm and 76mm guns mounted on the M4 series tanks. The 75mm has a lower velocity, thus the amount of powder carried in the HE round can be more because the shells are lighter in construction. The 76mm, however, is a higer velocity gun and requires shell of heavier constuction to withstand the greater accerelation forces being exerted on it. Consequently it has a smaller bursting charge and is less effective. Since most of the use of the M4 in Europe was infantry support the tankers actually preferred the 75mm for its superior HE perfromance.



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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/13/2006 11:09:34 PM   
akdreemer


Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

Hmm... Maybe "Accuracy" is a combination of Accuracy and Area-of-Effect? The device list does have an Effect attribute, but it doesn't include such a thing as blast radius...


The anti-soft value probably should be the square root of the effect value (nominally shell weight). This would then account for blast radius causing effect to be the square root of distance. It is more complicated than this - not all shells have an equal proportion of explosive - not all explosives are identical - but it is a very good starting point. We know the shell weights and bomb weights - but we don't always know everything else.


An interesting example comes from a comparison of the American 75mm and 76mm guns mounted on the M4 series tanks. The 75mm has a lower velocity, thus the amount of powder carried in the HE round can be more bursting charge (larger hollow area) because the shells are lighter in construction. The 76mm, however, is a higer velocity gun and requires shell of heavier constuction to withstand the greater accerelation forces being exerted on it. Consequently it has a smaller bursting charge (smaller hollow area) and was less effective. Since most of the use of the M4 in Europe was infantry support the tankers actually preferred the 75mm for its superior HE perfromance, although against Panzers it was of dubious value.

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RE: devices- Accururacy - 3/15/2006 4:52:14 PM   
el cid again

 

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quote:

I too have found ballistics interesting, especially the effects of shell type/velocity and penetration. The above statement is only at the muzzle, thus penetration is dependent on range, shell type, and the degree of striking angle. Penetration is usually measured using a homogenous rolled armor plate with the sheel striking at a 90deg angle (right angle to th surface of the plate) at various ranges.


Well, it is considered correct at point bank range. What Gary did was take this value and reduce it as range increases - which also is correct.
There is a slightly different effect at very long range - but apparently what he did there was shift the shells from side to deck - which is pretty correct as well. Mortars theoretically should ALWAYS target deck armor, but since the game does not know a mortar from a gun, they cannot do that. And, technically, penetration at extreme range is slightly better than at long range - because the shells pick up velocity as they fall.
The model uses random numbers to deal with other than normal (that is, right angle) penetrations.

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