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problem taking Saipan as Allies

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> problem taking Saipan as Allies Page: [1]
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problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 7:46:54 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Currently I have 7 INF divsions in Saipan, 2 Amp HQ, 1 corps HQ, 3 ART rgt, 3 tank BN, 2 ENG units and a BF on Saipan. I also have 2 surface fleets on the hex. One hex away I have 7 CVs in various TF. The last 4 turns I have been unable to get any units to do a shock attack. For some reason or other the IJN are able to sent reinforcements to Saipan virtually un challenged. What the heck am I doing wrong?
Post #: 1
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 7:57:55 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		What's the supply situation for your troops?

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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 8:16:28 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

What's the supply situation for your troops?


Except for one ART rgt being being slighly in the red all units are fully supplied. I have been on Saipan for over a month so I am having difficulty keeping my covering fleets fresh. That is probably why IJN are getting reinforcements to Saipan. But I have no choice my fleets are being worn down trying to cover the Island.

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Post #: 3
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 8:42:25 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		My units are finally doing shock attacks again.  I am now wondering if the fatigue levels had gotten too high.

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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 12:23:01 PM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline 		Personally, doing shock attacks unforced is like using a perfectly honed scalpel to chisel a rock.....what is the attraction?

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There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
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But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 2:12:31 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

Personally, doing shock attacks unforced is like using a perfectly honed scalpel to chisel a rock.....what is the attraction?


I agree..With that kind of manpower you will take the island by attrition, and the enemy will lose a lot in his struggle to re-supply..Don't forget to keep a CAP over the place to knock down the enemy transport planes which you will not detect in this game without!..

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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 3:01:48 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The only realistic time for a shock attack on an island is on Turn 1. If you can't unhorse your opponent with one lance strike, it's time for attrition tactics.

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Post #: 7
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 4:39:40 PM   
greg_slith


Posts: 490
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		If you're playing the AI on Very Hard then the Jap's don't have to worry about supply... this makes battles of attrition a drag. The AI also loves Saipan and put a sh1tload of units there. I took me several weeks to finally get the fort levels to fall. Engineers are worth their weight in gold. I also find armor can be helpful. Once the initial fort levels drop things move quicker.
If you're playing a Human opponant, ignore all the above.

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Post #: 8
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 5:59:02 PM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Looking back at my posts I see that I have overemphasized shock attacks in talking about my problems taking Saipan.  I had been doing more bombardment attacks and deliberate than shock attack.  I am taking note that I am being told not to use shock attacks at all in this situation.  My big problem is the amount of time for attrition
to take its toll on the Japanese side.  I have played another month and a half of game time since my first post and it seems like the Japanese forces will wear out my navy by attrition before I wear out their land forces.  Saipan, by its location keeps me out of reach of some Jap airfields.  Just enough planes get through my air cover to slowly bleed my navy.  A good portion of my surface fleet is in shipyards for repair.  Because of the time involved my ships, even though I try to rotate, seem to be always low on ammo.  I have a few units I am not using yet and am thinking of trying to take Tinian with them so I can get a land airbase in striking distance.  If Tinian ends up as tough as Saipan I am in major trouble.

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Post #: 9
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 10:21:23 PM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I would like to post a couple of screen shots to show why I am getting frustrated at Saipan. I am now over 3 months into my Saipan invasion. The two weeks attrition has started to go in reverse.








Attachment (1)

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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 10:23:51 PM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Here is the next day. Note: the same thing happens when I do Deliberate attacks. I have air CAP. And I keep naval units in the Saipan hex.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 11
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/1/2007 10:27:17 PM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Why am I getting no real attrition. In 2 weeks the Japanese have grown from 52,000 to over 63,000. At this rate next turn they will be over 64,000. I do not have anything more to throw into this battle.

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Post #: 12
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 12:48:42 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		I don't use a shock attack until the forts are down. What level forts are you attacking?

Your continued shock attacks may have caused more disruption in your ranks than it did in his.

Semper Fi,
Lee

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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 1:00:38 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		We can't really tell what is happening unless you post a screenshot from an assault combat result.



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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 4:41:14 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

We can't really tell what is happening unless you post a screenshot from an assault combat result.




I must note that Saipan's fort level has finally fallen a notch. It went from level 9 to a level 8







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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 4:57:48 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		Forts are at 8 and you've been there a month? What odds are you getting?

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Post #: 16
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 5:27:16 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

Forts are at 8 and you've been there a month? What odds are you getting?


Actually I have been there over 3 months now. I am losing sleep. The odds I am getting now are still 0 to 1. The fort did reduce to 7 on my last turn. It looks like the nut is finally starting to crack. I also think the AI wants me to lose another nights sleep.

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Post #: 17
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 6:00:50 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		Get some combat engineers in there to take down the forts...other than that, I think it takes something like 3:1 odds to take a fort down.

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Post #: 18
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 6:25:49 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
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From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: grumpyman


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

We can't really tell what is happening unless you post a screenshot from an assault combat result.




I must note that Saipan's fort level has finally fallen a notch. It went from level 9 to a level 8



What we really need to see is the combat report. The combatreport.txt from the turn in which you made your latest deliberate assault. We need to see the Assault Values for both sides, plus the Adjusted Assault and Adjusted Defense. We need to see what kind of modifiers you have going.

I expect your LCUs have lots of disabled squads, particularly in combat engineers. You probably have high fatigue and disruption. Your support is probably in the red. Your are prepped for Saipan, right? HQ present and prepped? Amphib HQ on an AGC in the hex?

I see you have taken Tinian; excellent. You need to create a couple of Bombardment TFs using old BBs and CAs. Shuttle them in and out of Tinian, replenishing one while the other is bombarding Saipan (be sure you have both supplies and fuel at Tinian; you need both to support bombardment groups). Bombarding every turn, you will quickly smoke his support squads and supplies, which will pretty much put an end to his staying power. Bombard the crap out of him for a few turns while your LCUs rest up a bit (set the pure artillery units to bombard).

You can do ground support air strikes from Tinian once you start doing assaults again, but the naval bombardments are far more powerful for killing supplies and support squads.

Bring up a big transport TF with AKs full of supply. Dump about 100k supplies on Saipan for your LCUs to suck up. If they get enough supply they will attack at double AV. Keep them supplied up.

Read this thread .

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 8/2/2007 6:33:43 AM >

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RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 6:58:49 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

Get some combat engineers in there to take down the forts...other than that, I think it takes something like 3:1 odds to take a fort down.


No, any deliberate attack at 1:1 or greater will reduce fort levels by 1. The only exception is when the engineers take the level down before the attack; in that case my experience is that no additional level is lost.

A shock attack will drop fort level by the amount of the odds. A 4:1 attack, for example, would take out 4 fort levels.

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Post #: 20
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/2/2007 7:06:07 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

ORIGINAL: grumpyman


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

We can't really tell what is happening unless you post a screenshot from an assault combat result.




I must note that Saipan's fort level has finally fallen a notch. It went from level 9 to a level 8



What we really need to see is the combat report. The combatreport.txt from the turn in which you made your latest deliberate assault. We need to see the Assault Values for both sides, plus the Adjusted Assault and Adjusted Defense. We need to see what kind of modifiers you have going.

I expect your LCUs have lots of disabled squads, particularly in combat engineers. You probably have high fatigue and disruption. Your support is probably in the red. Your are prepped for Saipan, right? HQ present and prepped? Amphib HQ on an AGC in the hex?

I see you have taken Tinian; excellent. You need to create a couple of Bombardment TFs using old BBs and CAs. Shuttle them in and out of Tinian, replenishing one while the other is bombarding Saipan (be sure you have both supplies and fuel at Tinian; you need both to support bombardment groups). Bombarding every turn, you will quickly smoke his support squads and supplies, which will pretty much put an end to his staying power. Bombard the crap out of him for a few turns while your LCUs rest up a bit (set the pure artillery units to bombard).

You can do ground support air strikes from Tinian once you start doing assaults again, but the naval bombardments are far more powerful for killing supplies and support squads.

Bring up a big transport TF with AKs full of supply. Dump about 100k supplies on Saipan for your LCUs to suck up. If they get enough supply they will attack at double AV. Keep them supplied up.

Read this thread .


Why didn't I know all this stuff at the beginning.

As I have posted I have been on Saipan for over 3 months. Much of what you have listed here I learned the hard way during this particular adventure. Let me go over what you listed here.

Tinian: This was the big one. I was bleeding the he11 out of my navy until I took it.
Old BBs: check
Set the PURE art to bombard: no check for me here I have been setting anything that can bombard to bombard
Ground support air to bombard from tinian: check
big transport with supplies: check
high fatigue and disruption: learned my lesson, not soon enough
support is plentiful since big transport.
prepped for Saipan: since the beginning
Amp HQ on AGC: nope Amp HQ on land
overall information in your post

Saipan is now falling fast. Fort is going down 1 about every other turn now. It is currently at 5. It started at 9.

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Post #: 21
RE: problem taking Saipan as Allies - 8/3/2007 3:43:31 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Saipan has finally fallen.  Two turns later my computer crashed.  I had not did a save.  I am forever greatful to the person who put the autosave feature in the game.

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Post #: 22
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