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A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 3:55:40 AM

CarnageINC

Posts: 2208
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From: Rapid City SD
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Hello, I must confess that my favorite dream games revolve around 4X space games. I've tried several out there and I always come away disappointed some how

. Gal Civ and Sins where great but some how I found lacking.

I've been peeking at this forum from time to time and keep wishing to give it a go. I'm just a little worried about re-playability because its only 1 player and once you catch on to the AI you can never really get that feeling of challenge again.

I was wondering what are the unique challenges of the game? What do people find fun and fascinating about playing it? Can the AI be set up to offer mega hard challenge? I can go on and on about little questions. I just want to get a small dose of the fans of DW can give me.

Thanks

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 4:15:19 AM

Nedrear

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By default you got 20 different species, reacting to you in different ways depending on your start race. You can play it in different galaxy sizes and map outlays. You can play a small part of the empire like one fleet, or command everything. With legends you will also be able to chose "leaders" and "personalitys" helping your empire development.

Is it replayable as of the first expansion RotS? The main story will get old after playing it two times on both sides, but if you start on Normal and go your way to Chaotic, you will have a hard time winning without exploiting the game. Though many of us wonder where the exploit begins because the AI is stupid and the human is smart. And if nothing helps, just breed your own enemy by editing the racetext in a mod folder. Give them illoyality, badassery and strength. Let them breed like flies and swarm your galaxy following the way of darkness and you are in for a total hell not necessarily playing on chaos mode.

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 10:23:14 AM

Bingeling

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I think a good moment to jump in is when the expansion is released and a possible package/Christmas deal comes up. That should be this month for expansion, and Christmas is well documented.

The expansion promises more difficulty sliders. What has annoyed me up to now is that it is hard to get a proper badass enemy without editing the game. And if you edited it you kind of know what to expect.

But even if you can not be entertained into eternity, how much should you expect from a game? DW in the current shape is one of my favorite games. If I buy a PS3 title I am happy to get some 30 hours of fun. DW has given far more.

The above answer mentioned flexibility. The AI can be stupid compared to you, but because you can have the AI run whatever part of your empire you want, you can try to win by running your parts well. It is easy to get a random start where the AI empires has a certain advantage, and if the AI runs diplomacy, you can't make your choice of tech trades, right? Or exploit that you pick your wars better than the AI? If you let the AI have the research and design department in addition, you can't exploit you making better ship design, and avoiding researching stupid techs that won't be used either.

The next game you may let the AI have the opposite sides of the empire. You do only diplomacy, tech and design... You can find new ways to play for a long time.

I have had AI in much control twice, with two different races. The game was very different when it came to spy usage, ship design challenges, the will to explore... Almost 20 different races to test...

< Message edited by Bingeling -- 11/6/2011 10:25:46 AM >

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 12:34:25 PM

WoodMan

Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
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quote:

Hello, I must confess that my favorite dream games revolve around 4X space games. I've tried several out there and I always come away disappointed some how . Gal Civ and Sins where great but some how I found lacking.

I also found Sins and Gal Civ lacking. Sins was fantastic but too condensed, its a traditional RTS game not a 4x in my opinion, like Starcraft, or Supreme Commander, it didn't hold my interest for long because all the games were the same, and too short. Gal Civ was more to my taste, but just not very exciting for some reason, not compared to my other favourite sci-fi 4x Alpha Centauri anyway.

quote:

I've been peeking at this forum from time to time and keep wishing to give it a go. I'm just a little worried about re-playability because its only 1 player and once you catch on to the AI you can never really get that feeling of challenge again.

Some people find the game easy, others like myself find it a challenge. There are many things you can do to make the game easier or more difficult, loads of things in the game setup, modding, and adjusting your play style. I personally leave ship design on automatic foe example, and give the AI empires a headstart depending on their personality, so it feels like I'm playing in a galaxy with an already established powerbase rather than everybody first reaching the stars at the same time. I'm more of a roleplayer in it to relax and get immersed and I love this game, but from reading these forums it seems that cold, calculated strategists (like Nedrear)

also thoroughly enjoy the game and in a totally different way than I do. For the cold, calculated strategy robots there are new difficulty options in the upcoming expansion.

quote:

I was wondering what are the unique challenges of the game? What do people find fun and fascinating about playing it? Can the AI be set up to offer mega hard challenge? I can go on and on about little questions. I just want to get a small dose of the fans of DW can give me.

The unique challenges of the game depend on your setup and the way you want to play. For me its being a new spacefaring race in an already established galaxy, with many other Empires all varying in size, population, technology level and of course their personalities. You have to tread carefully, stepping on the right toes, taking advantage of the weak so you can challenge the stronger later on. The most fascinating thing is the "living" feeling of the galaxy, again something that is going to get even better in the expansion with its random events, further race traits, race specific victories and new characters and borders system.

I'll finish by saying I only bought this game because it was cheap, it didn't really appeal to me, but I'm still playing it 18 months later and rank it as one of the best I've ever played (the best if we are talking genre specific).

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 12:43:54 PM

Gelatinous Cube

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As a long-time fan of Paradox's stuff, I was chomping at the bit when I heard about this game, as it seemed to follow the same style of RTS Grand Strategy, except in Space.. and 4x.. could it be true? Then I forgot about it until I stumbled upon a review just a few months ago, and i've been hooked since.

*edit- And to the OP, I noticed you're from Rapid City. I lived up in Deadwood for a few years back in the early 00's.

< Message edited by Gelatinous Cube -- 11/6/2011 12:50:33 PM >

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 12:56:16 PM

Nedrear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

I'm more of a roleplayer in it to relax and get immersed and I love this game, but from reading these forums it seems that cold, calculated strategists (like Nedrear) also thoroughly enjoy the game and in a totally different way than I do.

I guess you missed my posts in the AAR section. I roleplay very much, thank you. Being cunning and calculated simply helps to adjust some characters to act as necessary or create things the game does not intend to, but the RP simply needs! Some of the decisions of my "goverment" are not my own. For example I wouldn't have adjourned a forced exploit on high ressoure worlds or chose different techs to start.

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 1:27:53 PM

WoodMan

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From: Ol' Blighty
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hehe, I'm just joshing ya, I got to read your AAR yet

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 4:50:53 PM

MartialDoctor

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Joined: 3/7/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC
I was wondering what are the unique challenges of the game? What do people find fun and fascinating about playing it? Can the AI be set up to offer mega hard challenge? I can go on and on about little questions. I just want to get a small dose of the fans of DW can give me.

Do you play Civ IV or GalCiv II? If so, what sort of difficulty level do you play either of those at? Just want to get a feel for what your idea of "mega hard" is...

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/6/2011 11:31:43 PM

CarnageINC

Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
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Good to hear there is a editor for races Nedrear. Does the expansion make the original feel outdated, like they fixed a lot of what was wrong the first time?

Good ideas from you Bingeling, after playing a time or two using these HR's would probably make it still playable, but its so hard not to micromanage things for me

Thanks for the input WoodMan, were alike in some ways I think. With empire games I like to RP a bit too. What you say about expansions makes me wonder how many they will have. 2 is a good number, but years of expansions would be total awesome! Yeah yeah....its just wish full thinking.

G Cube Deadwood is a great little get away in the Hills, why did you leave? The rally drive you nuts...it drives me nuts!

MartialDoctor I don't play Civ IV but I have GalCiv II. I want a game that you can make headway diplomatically every once in a while, instead of yes or no all the time. I want a game where you win or loose a couple battles develop new weapons and claw your way back to victory or meet a defeat that isn't game ending. The economics of the game should feel like you can't make it all on your own that you have to trade with allies and potential foes. Having an embargo for some stupid act and having it effect your economy in a major way would be cool. I want a game where allies don't always turn their knives on you and you can't turn your knife on them because the parliament, population or economics would cripple you.

Thanks to you all for your input, this game looks very immersive and also looks hard to master. I'll do some more studying and reading on the forums before I jump in

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/7/2011 1:42:36 AM

MartialDoctor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC
MartialDoctor I don't play Civ IV but I have GalCiv II.� I want a game that you can make headway diplomatically every once in a while, instead of yes or no all the time.� I want a game where you win or loose a couple battles develop new weapons and claw your way back to victory or meet a defeat that isn't game ending.� The economics of the game should feel like you can't make it all on your own that you have to trade with allies and potential foes.� Having an embargo for some stupid act and having it effect your economy in a major way would be cool.� I want a game where allies don't always turn their knives on you and you can't turn your knife on them because the parliament, population or economics would cripple you.

Ah, yes, those are some really great aspects of GalCiv II. The diplomacy and interaction are both really well done in that game.

To be honest, this is the only major aspect that is missing in Distant Worlds. The Legends expansion is expected to bring a lot of AI changes that myself, and I know others, are hoping will bring the AI up to a level of something similar to what is found in GalCiv II.

My suggestion would be to wait for the expansion and then see where things are at, at that point. Distant Worlds does many things new and fresh, and it does them right. If the expansion adds to the AI to bring it up to a good level, then it will really be an amazing game.

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/7/2011 3:27:34 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

Can the AI be set up to offer mega hard challenge?

In short: No

Why?

The AI does little to focus its forces - for example sending escorts with its freighters and mining ships - which is good for warding off pirates and guerrilla warfare tactics, but is completely ineffective against a human player who will "go for the throat" and focus all his energies on taking the homeworld.

As well, luck plays far too large a role in the one's success in the game. Find an uber cruiser or capital ship early, and you can have an enormous advantage, especially should a less lucky opponent start a war with you. That's not to mention the debris fields which have ships that can be repaired such that you'll never have to build a ship of your own. Of course, that's assuming you actually GET control of the ship you repaired. It's quite the cr*p-shoot, who flies off with it (read: bug).

Finally, if you are relishing the warfare aspect of the game, you're out of luck - they have implemented "war weariness", such that the longer you're at war, the greater unhappiness you have in your empire. And this means "continual time at war". If you're in a long and protracted war with X - and finally force him to submit to your demands - then before the ink is dry on your peace treaty, you start stomping on Y - then all is hunky dory. War weariness clock is reset and starts again with Y. But should the war with Y be started before you finish the war with X, then you're in trouble - the war weariness is running (and escalating) from the day the war started with X, and you get no benefit from ending it. "You're at war" is an absolute.

*edit: playing it peaceful isn't really an option either. You can "accidentally" end up at war. Some nice juicy independent world lies in range of your invasion ships - so you send them on a "diplomacy in force" mission... Now during your invasion, another race slips in with a colony ship and they join the other race. Guess what? You're now at war with that race. Didn't want it? Didn't intend it? Tough. Apparently that's how it's designed. You get to fight, what was your closest ally and biggest trade partner.

So forget the usual 4X end-game of a mass free-for-all once everyone realizes you're a nigh unstoppable juggernaut. Being at war with multiple opponents can drag you into civil war - splitting your empire and your fleets.... oh, and it doesn't matter who started the war. Even if you're completely defensive and neither instigate nor carry a war to the enemy - you STILL eat the penalty - and at the end-game, likely the empire split.

*edit: I forgot to mention - you get a massive penalty for all colonies you control that are of the race type you're at war with. This can cause mass revolts, crippling your empire - should you, heaven forbid, try to retake the rebellious worlds. Enter script - at war with race X? Iterate through all planets, drop happiness 27 points (entirely impossible to counter in many cases - 0% tax even). Happiness too low? Revolt, and then revolution.

But for all its weaknesses, the 4X gaming scene is a barren wasteland. There's so little on the market for someone looking for a 4X game, that DW is a bright beacon by comparison.

In long: Perhaps

Some of the mods go some way to address this - increasing the aggressiveness of the AI, and getting them to build less sucky ships. But then you're dealing with another set of problems - an AI that has sunk so much into defenses, for example, that he's crippled himself economically - leaving you to expand unfettered, should you gift him a mining base once every so often.

But any game can be made "hard" if you really, really try.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 11/7/2011 3:44:32 AM >

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/7/2011 8:24:36 AM

Gelatinous Cube

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quote:

G Cube Deadwood is a great little get away in the Hills, why did you leave? The rally drive you nuts...it drives me nuts!

I liked it a lot. I was just a kid, and we started in lead, then moved to Deadwood (which is all of about two feet). Then my mom married a Lakota and I wound up on Pine Ridge for a few years. That was enough to make me not wanna go anywhere near South Dakota again!

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/13/2011 5:11:36 AM

CarnageINC

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@ GC....Pine Ridge...the slum of the prairie, that's for sure. Sorry to hear that you suffered that experience, but don't let that mar the good things at the Hills

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RE: A distant admirer needs some answers pls - 11/14/2011 1:10:09 AM

Byeohazard

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Carnage,
I put together a similar thread "tuggin at my heartstrings" which gathered a few responses if you ar elooking for some more input. It is just above this thread. Hope it helps!

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Post #: 14