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Rail Coversion Bug - 2/8/2012 11:16:28 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		From the manual

A hex is eligible for FBD/NKPS repair if 1) the hex is in the Baltic zone (prior to Dec 1941) and within 6 hexes of a railhead, or if not in the Baltic zone within 4 hexes of a railhead, and 2) the number of hexes to the railhead does not exceed the RRV (Rail Repair Value) of the FBD/NKPS unit. Since both of these conditions must apply, players will never be able to use an FBD/NKPS unit more than 6 hexes from a railhead in the Baltic zone (prior to Dec 1941), or 4 hexes from a railhead outside the Baltic zone. If a rail hex is not eligible for repair, the RRC will not display in the FBD/NKPS unit’s info area.

So why can't I convert this hex? The RRV is greater than the distance to the railhead (14 as to 4) and still only 4 hexes to the railhead. Both conditions have been met.


Save file coming.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/8/2012 11:17:20 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Save file

Attachment (1)

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RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/8/2012 11:49:19 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		The *length* of the newly converted rail line is limited to 4 and 6 hexes. You're trying to convert a 5th hex in the 4 hex zone.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 3
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 12:33:33 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		That is not how the rule is worded though, see below


Damaged rail hexes must be eligible to be designated for repair by an FBD/NKPS unit. This is based on the distance from the damaged rail hex to a railhead (the "off rail range" in the hex pop-up text), which is the closest friendly and undamaged rail line hex that is connected through the rail network to a supply source.
 
It has nothing to do with how many actual hexes are converted, only the that the distance from the railhead is 4 or less hexes.

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Post #: 4
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 1:24:02 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

That is not how the rule is worded though, see below


Damaged rail hexes must be eligible to be designated for repair by an FBD/NKPS unit. This is based on the distance from the damaged rail hex to a railhead (the "off rail range" in the hex pop-up text), which is the closest friendly and undamaged rail line hex that is connected through the rail network to a supply source.
 
It has nothing to do with how many actual hexes are converted, only the that the distance from the railhead is 4 or less hexes.

I see the confusion, as the manual has not kept up with the patch changes. However, it was changed specifically to prohibit any length of repaired rail from exceeding the 4/6 hex limits.

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Post #: 5
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 1:41:45 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline

Damaged rail hexes must be eligible to be designated for repair by an FBD/NKPS unit. This is based on the distance from the damaged rail hex to a railhead (the "off rail range" in the hex pop-up text), which is the closest friendly and undamaged rail line hex that is connected through the rail network to a supply source. A hex is eligible for FBD/NKPS repair if 1) the hex is in the Baltic zone (prior to Dec 1941) and within 6 hexes of a railhead, or if not in the Baltic zone within 4 hexes of a railhead, and 2) the number of hexes to the railhead does not exceed the RRV (Rail Repair Value) of the FBD/NKPS unit. Since both of these conditions must apply, players will never be able to use an FBD/NKPS unit more than 6 hexes from a railhead in the Baltic zone (prior to Dec 1941), or 4 hexes from a railhead outside the Baltic zone. If a rail hex is not eligible for repair, the RRC will not display in the FBD/NKPS unit’s info area.
 
Nowhere does it even allude that the *length* of converted track is limited to 4 or 6 hexes. The conversion is limited by the 2 conditions, one being the RRV value and the other the distance from the railhead. This is precisely why some people get caught converting track that is not actually connected to a network (and myself more than once :( ). It is not limited to contiguous hexes.

So either the rule is written incorrectly or there is a bug. I hope it’s a bug because rail conversion has been nerfed enough already. There should be some benefits of having a concentration of rail engineers in an area. Otherwise why bother with the units. You may as well just let the player convert 4 or 6 hexes of contiguous track (by simply selecting the hexes) in 5 locations and be done with it. Get rid of the units in this case.

I know there was a bug fix that limited the conversion range to 4 and 6 (down from 5 and 7) hexes but I did not think it limited the conversion to 4 or 6 hexes along a single line.

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Post #: 6
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 1:58:00 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

So either the rule is written incorrectly or there is a bug. I hope it’s a bug because rail conversion has been nerfed enough already. There should be some benefits of having a concentration of rail engineers in an area. Otherwise why bother with the units. You may as well just let the player convert 4 or 6 hexes of contiguous track (by simply selecting the hexes) in 5 locations and be done with it. Get rid of the units in this case.

I know there was a bug fix that limited the conversion range to 4 and 6 (down from 5 and 7) hexes but I did not think it limited the conversion to 4 or 6 hexes along a single line.

As rail repair is currently implemented, the rule is written incorrectly. It was limited to the trace of 4 or 6 hexes along a line specifically to prevent the kind of doubling up of FBDs that you are attempting.

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Post #: 7
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 2:37:19 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		So when the bug was squashed they decided to change the rule as well. They could have let us know.

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Post #: 8
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 2:45:03 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		As far as I know these are the only reported fixes in relation to rail conversion.

10) Fixed a bug with rail repair units where the RRV was not being properly checked to see
how many hexes could be repaired by the unit.
 
4) Fixed a bug that allowed rail repair units to repair further than 4 hexes away from a valid
supply source.
 
Neither explain my observation. In fact number (4) adds weight that it is distance not length that is the limiting factor.

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Post #: 9
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 7:07:56 AM   
Seminole


Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline 		Realize that the rail repair gear (including new rails themselves, which aren't light!) goes down the (newly converted) track, not over the land.  Your measurements 'as the crow flies' are irrelevant, since not even an African swallow could carry replacement gauge rail. 
No matter how he grips it.

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Post #: 10
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/9/2012 5:55:19 PM   
Schmart

 

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole
Your measurements 'as the crow flies' are irrelevant, since not even an African swallow could carry replacement gauge rail. 
No matter how he grips it.


Unless two swallows carry it on a line...

Personally, I've always interpreted this rule as being 4/6 hexes along the rail line, rather than terrain hexes. Logistically it just seems to make more sense.

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 11
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/13/2012 2:48:27 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		See my post here re a related rail issue: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3037001

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Post #: 12
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/13/2012 3:22:27 AM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Several patches ago the number of hexes that can be converted/turn/rr is 4.

Marquo

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 13
RE: Rail Coversion Bug - 2/13/2012 6:03:13 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Gary has confirmed that the last time he worked on rail repair (looks like back in November 2011 by the readme), the code was set up to try to trace down the rail line. In this case it appears to be working as designed, although the rule could be written better to make it clear it is supposed to be 4 hexes down the rail line and not as the crow flies).

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Post #: 14
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