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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns Series >> Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue >> Supply

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Supply - 10/2/2012 2:29:52 PM

James Ward

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Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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I never seem to run low on oil or supply in my front line units unless they get totally cut off.
The rail lines seem to get fixed so quickly that supply to all my units is only 5-10 AP's even as I advance steadily. Personally I think the rail conversions is to fast.
Has anyone ever had supply problem with the Axis when they are advancing early in the game?

Post #: 1

RE: Supply - 10/2/2012 2:43:44 PM

Bonners

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From: Kinmel bay
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Yes with supply, it started to be real pain on the mud turns, especially once I moved into October, I had a lot of instances of units in real trouble when the weather turned. Yes it was always solvable but it did restrict my advance at times and I had to make sure that the advance was tied to the rail network as my supply bases built up.

Oil was never a problem, but the impression I got is that at this stage of the war the main problem was getting the oil to the frontlines as it was the German logistical network that was the problem. Yes oil was limited, but there was still enough in 1942 if it could be got to the frontline units. When did the US bombing campaign begin in earnest against the Romanian oilfields, about mid 1943?

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 2

RE: Supply - 10/2/2012 3:13:46 PM

olivier34

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From: montpellier
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That's a thread to open. In my game, I have only encounter supply problems during mud turns and the units in trouble had been push as far as possible to previous turn (dangerous to do. I lost two rgts like that). This is way I think that I will use the hardcore supply rules the next time I play a scenario. (We have to follow Liquidsky's AAR. He is playing with those rules).
Maybe the thread could be about the oil reserves of the Axis. Not a problem at all during my game. I had began to save pps to ask for more oil to High command. Never had to.

(in reply to Bonners)

Post #: 3

RE: Supply - 10/2/2012 3:26:37 PM

James Ward

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From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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I have never really had supply problems as the Axis. To me the problem is the rail conversion time. Unless I am across the Volga the AP's for supply are never very much as the rail lines are repaired so quickly they are virtually at the front. And I have never run short of oil. They may have had plenty of it but it didn't get to the uits quite so fast. It seems like there is a gas station in every other hex

(in reply to olivier34)

Post #: 4

RE: Supply - 10/2/2012 5:34:03 PM

LiquidSky

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Yes, I too notice that the axis are never wanting for supplies. Perhaps the supply event can be 'tweaked' so that they are forced to put part of the army on 50% supply to keep it flowing to the pointy end of the advance. The oil meter seemed to dive in the early part of the scenario (when the luftwaffe is constantly flying/the tanks always driving)...but later, climbs and maxes out.

My russian opponent, however, is complaining that there is a Russian army in the red (for supply). When I ask him his supply in/supply out req numbers, he said umm..15k in, 19k requested out, 15k out. Which shows a shortfall of 4k....

I suspect the advanced supply rule fully supply's each HQ in order, until it runs out...then the rest of the HQ's get none.

The way supply moves is it uses 250AP's to get from Stavka to unit. It costs 0 to move along a fully repaired rail line. It costs 1 to move along a road...then it costs much more to move over terrain..through zocs...over rivers.

The only time I notice a drop, is when my panzer spearheads have pushed over a river and are in Russian zocs..then I lose about 20 AP's.

_____________________________

�My logisticians are a humorless lot � they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.� � Alexander the Great

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 5

RE: Supply - 10/2/2012 6:16:11 PM

James Ward

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From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

The way supply moves is it uses 250AP's to get from Stavka to unit. It costs 0 to move along a fully repaired rail line. It costs 1 to move along a road...then it costs much more to move over terrain..through zocs...over rivers.

I think that is part of the reason the Axis doesn't feel any supply crunch. The rails repair pretty quick so no unit is very far from a railhead. Until you cross the Volga, assuming you don't take and cross at Saratov, Axis supply is not something I have ever had to worry about. Even bad weather doesn't do much as it can't happen two turns in a row. At best it's a insignificant speed bump.

(in reply to LiquidSky)

Post #: 6

RE: Supply - 10/3/2012 12:25:36 PM

Keunert

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Here from Wiki, the Glantz of the interwebs:

Only two weeks into the operation, on 11 July, the Germans began to suffer logistics difficulties, which slowed down the tempo of the advance. The German Sixth Army was continually delayed by fuel shortages. Eight days later, on 20 July, shortages of fuel were still undermining operations, leaving many units unable to execute their orders. The 23rd Panzer Division and 24th Panzer Division both became stranded during the opening phase. Once again, as it had done during the Norwegian Campaign in April 1940, and Barbarossa in 1941, the Luftwaffe's Junkers Ju 52 transport fleet flew in supplies to keep the army going. The situation remained difficult with German troops forced to recover fuel from damaged or abandoned vehicles, and in some cases, leave behind tanks and vehicles with heavy fuel consumption to continue their advance. This undermined the strength of the units, which were forced to leave fighting vehicles behind. Nevertheless, the Luftwaffe flew in 200 tons of fuel per day to keep the army supplied.[28] Despite this impressive performance in keeping the army mobile, L�hr was replaced by the more impetuous and offensive-minded von Richthofen.[29]

(in reply to James Ward)

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RE: Supply - 10/3/2012 8:55:02 PM

olivier34

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From: montpellier
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I had save some turns of my game with Keunert. Here is the supply situation of 6A the 18th of July
I remember that in the DC1 most of the bridges were destroyed or it seems that this is more difficult for the soviets than it was for the polish or french to destroy the bridges before the germans can take it. If most of the bridges had been destroyed the XXXX corps would have been slowed down.

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RE: Supply - 10/3/2012 8:59:12 PM

olivier34

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From: montpellier
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10 days later. The trucks follow a dangerous road to supply the 23th panzer...

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Post #: 9

RE: Supply - 10/6/2012 12:08:32 AM

LiquidSky

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Actually, if you are using the default supply rules, the supply doesnt flow from 6A, but from OKH direct. It probably still follows that road, however. When you click on the supply layer, it shows the layer based on THAT HQ selected...and all clicking on the map will do is show a route from that HQ. (and green, yellow, red, blue hexes for amount of supply that gets through...corresponding to 100%, 75%, 50%, and 25%...not necessarily in the same order)

I am beginning to suspect, now that I am playing with the expert supply rules, is that supply gets 250AP's to move from OKH/STAVKA to get to the unit. It flows first to the Front/Army HQ. Then it flows to the Army/Corp HQ. Finally it flows to the unit. If the Front/Army HQ is too far removed from the Army/Corp HQ, then you can be adding a lot of kilometres (AP expenditures) to the supply route. My (german) units seem to have to be within a couple of hexes of the Corp HQ, and the Army HQ is best near a road/rail line.

_____________________________

�My logisticians are a humorless lot � they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.� � Alexander the Great

(in reply to olivier34)

Post #: 10

RE: Supply - 10/6/2012 10:08:45 PM

Bonners

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Still in July with Axis and still struggling with supply. The reason why are down to how the Soviet player retreats I reckon - the Soviet player can be a big factor on Soviet supply. He has been religiously knocking down everything that looks like a bridge and making damn sure that he defends every useful rail line like crazy. Consequently my supply is having to go around for frontline units which means in mud turns supply is struggling to reach them. My Ju-52s have been busy in July, busier than I'd expected or wanted.

(in reply to LiquidSky)

Post #: 11