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Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ?

 
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Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 1:12:25 PM   
moose1999

 

Posts: 788
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		As the title says...
Do I have always need an air HQ present at an airfield to have my torpedo bombers use torpedoes - or will a certain airfield size negate the HQ requirement?

Only talking about the Japanese, of course...

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regards,

Briny
Post #: 1
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 3:39:53 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		No. They need to be WITHIN COMMAND RANGE of Air HQ, for example. RTFM!

7.2.1.10.2.2 LAND BASED TORPEDO SUPPLY
On land, torpedoes are supplied from Air HQs or appropriate Base Forces that carry a “Torpedo
Ordnance” device.

The Air HQ or BF expends supply at the base to “purchase” torpedoes that are stored in the
Air HQ or BF. Each Air HQ or BF can have a torpedo level set. This represents the number of
torpedoes that the unit will automatically try to maintain.

Command HQs can directly supply torpedoes to groups by expending supply. It does not need
to keep a torpedo reserve.

When a group is ordered to attack ships, the group checks for any BF or HQ in the same base. If
one is found, a number of torpedoes equal to the planes flying are expended from the BF or HQ.

If no HQ or BF is found, then a HQ with the base within the HQ’s Command Radius is checked
for. If one is found, then torpedoes are expended from it.

If no BF or HQ is found, the group will use bombs in the mission.

If a BF or HQ can only supply some torpedoes, then the number of planes flying the mission
with torpedoes will be no more than the number of torpedoes available. Another strike mission
carrying only bombs will possibly be created.

In addition, the base must be able to expend additional supply based on the size of the AF.


_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to moose1999)
Post #: 2
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 3:42:53 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Good luck telling someone they should read the manual. Last time I tried that I got a bunch of crap about the manual was mostly wrong. I just don't give out much help anymore.

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Post #: 3
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 4:26:57 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		AE manual is OK..WitP manual was horrible after few patches. 

Most of the stuff in AE manual still holds water.


_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 4
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 4:46:33 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		So command HQ's work as well? Interesting, given their 9 hex range. Or is the range increased in AE, now that the hexes are smaller?

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Surface combat TF fanboy

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Post #: 5
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 4:57:42 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		You don´t even need a HQ.

A BF that can store torps is good enough.

_____________________________


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Post #: 6
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 5:00:07 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

You don´t even need a HQ.

A BF that can store torps is good enough.


Hm, haven't noticed any of those lying about. Must take a closer look when I get back to my PC in January. Still the Command HQ range can be quite good if you have several large airfields you want to use in range.

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Surface combat TF fanboy

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Post #: 7
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 5:56:28 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		ok, odd but true, what ranges? do ranges for HQ's change?
thanks again guys

(in reply to String)
Post #: 8
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/24/2009 9:46:47 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		The manual mentions them, but I don't believe that there are any BaseForces in the game with inherent torpedo storage.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 9
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/25/2009 5:48:11 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: String

So command HQ's work as well? Interesting, given their 9 hex range. Or is the range increased in AE, now that the hexes are smaller?


String -

I believe that most Command HQ's have a command radius of nine; which is an absolute with regards to torpedo resupply.

And - another use for Command HQ's:

When it comes to administrative assitance (increasing the number of air units that can be stacked at a base, Patch v1.00.84 – September 9, 2009 readme says:

72. Gameplay Change: Command level headquarter units now behave like an Air HQ
for the purpose of determining the over-stacking limits of airfields. The effect radius
of a command HQ extends out to twice the command radius, but only applies half the
affect when the distance to the base is more than the command radius.

Gents; please correct me if I am in error. Do hope that this helps;

Mac

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LAV-25 2147

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Post #: 10
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/25/2009 9:57:50 AM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

So command HQ's work as well? Interesting, given their 9 hex range. Or is the range increased in AE, now that the hexes are smaller?


String -

I believe that most Command HQ's have a command radius of nine; which is an absolute with regards to torpedo resupply.

And - another use for Command HQ's:

When it comes to administrative assitance (increasing the number of air units that can be stacked at a base, Patch v1.00.84 – September 9, 2009 readme says:

72. Gameplay Change: Command level headquarter units now behave like an Air HQ
for the purpose of determining the over-stacking limits of airfields. The effect radius
of a command HQ extends out to twice the command radius, but only applies half the
affect when the distance to the base is more than the command radius.

Gents; please correct me if I am in error. Do hope that this helps;

Mac


Oh? Very interesting indeed. Command HQ's have suddenly become useful.

_____________________________

Surface combat TF fanboy

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 11
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/25/2009 12:50:32 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

The manual mentions them, but I don't believe that there are any BaseForces in the game with inherent torpedo storage.


I think you are right, theres no BF with such a device.

I searched through the database to check if there is anything like a "torpedo ordinance device" as described in
the manual and didn´t find it at least for the Japanese side.

Could it be limited to the Allieds?



_____________________________


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Post #: 12
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 12/25/2009 1:18:10 PM   
moose1999

 

Posts: 788
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

No. They need to be WITHIN COMMAND RANGE of Air HQ, for example. RTFM!

7.2.1.10.2.2 LAND BASED TORPEDO SUPPLY
On land, torpedoes are supplied from Air HQs or appropriate Base Forces that carry a “Torpedo
Ordnance” device.

The Air HQ or BF expends supply at the base to “purchase” torpedoes that are stored in the
Air HQ or BF. Each Air HQ or BF can have a torpedo level set. This represents the number of
torpedoes that the unit will automatically try to maintain.

Command HQs can directly supply torpedoes to groups by expending supply. It does not need
to keep a torpedo reserve.

When a group is ordered to attack ships, the group checks for any BF or HQ in the same base. If
one is found, a number of torpedoes equal to the planes flying are expended from the BF or HQ.

If no HQ or BF is found, then a HQ with the base within the HQ’s Command Radius is checked
for. If one is found, then torpedoes are expended from it.

If no BF or HQ is found, the group will use bombs in the mission.

If a BF or HQ can only supply some torpedoes, then the number of planes flying the mission
with torpedoes will be no more than the number of torpedoes available. Another strike mission
carrying only bombs will possibly be created.

In addition, the base must be able to expend additional supply based on the size of the AF.


Yes, I did read this section in the f... manual, and I know about the command HQs being able to supply torpedoes too, but I was pretty sure there was an airfield level that negated the HQ requirement.
In my game as the allies I am pretty sure I flew torpedo bombers with torpedoes from large bases out of HQ range, but I wasn't able to do so in my new game as Japan.
Hence my question above.

But I must either have been dreaming up these torpedoes or had flashbacks to WitP, because there is certainly no way my torpedo bombers will carry torpedoes without an HQ now.
Not even from a size 10 airfield on Honsu.
Which might be stretching this rule a bit too far, I think.
Allowing torpedo sorties to be flown from size 7 airfields wouldn't hurt anyone...

_____________________________

regards,

Briny

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 13
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 6/27/2014 5:24:39 AM   
pharmy

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
Status: offline 		I'm just bumping this ancient thread for newbies and people like me who quite forgot that Command HQs provide torpedoes for AF bases within their radius (9 hexes). Also IJN Air Fleets / IJA Air Armies provide torpedoes not just for the base they are on but also bases 5 and 4 hexes away respectively. (Note IJN Air Flotillas only have command radius of 1, so they only provide torpedoes to their own base). While 4th fleet and South East Area Fleet are designated as theaters, they are naval commands not command HQs (Southern Army/Chin Exp./General Defense and 5th Fleet are). At least in Stock Scenario 1

(in reply to moose1999)
Post #: 14
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 6/27/2014 7:23:47 AM   
Endy

 

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/6/2014
Status: offline 		Actually, at least for me, the command HQ's provide torps to planes only in the same base. Only air HQs provide torps to bases in their whole command radius.

(in reply to pharmy)
Post #: 15
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 6/27/2014 7:38:29 AM   
pharmy

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
Status: offline 		Actually your right, I tested it wrong. Missed that I previously moved 12 Air Flottila to the same base as the 5th Fleet. Just tried moving some Nells to 20000 supply plus Changchun with Kwantung Army - size 4 airport - and no torpedoes at all. Same with general defense HQ - for me it does not provide torps at all. So the only the only re-discovery I made for myself is the Air HQ 4 and 5 hexes

(in reply to Endy)
Post #: 16
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 6/27/2014 7:42:45 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

I'm just bumping this ancient thread for newbies and people like me who quite forgot that Command HQs provide torpedoes for AF bases within their radius (9 hexes). Also IJN Air Fleets / IJA Air Armies provide torpedoes not just for the base they are on but also bases 5 and 4 hexes away respectively. (Note IJN Air Flotillas only have command radius of 1, so they only provide torpedoes to their own base). While 4th fleet and South East Area Fleet are designated as theaters, they are naval commands not command HQs (Southern Army/Chin Exp./General Defense and 5th Fleet are). At least in Stock Scenario 1


I believe the 4th fleet and South East Area Fleet are both but their command ranges are 1 and 5 respectively.

(in reply to pharmy)
Post #: 17
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 6/27/2014 7:59:51 AM   
pharmy

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

I'm just bumping this ancient thread for newbies and people like me who quite forgot that Command HQs provide torpedoes for AF bases within their radius (9 hexes). Also IJN Air Fleets / IJA Air Armies provide torpedoes not just for the base they are on but also bases 5 and 4 hexes away respectively. (Note IJN Air Flotillas only have command radius of 1, so they only provide torpedoes to their own base). While 4th fleet and South East Area Fleet are designated as theaters, they are naval commands not command HQs (Southern Army/Chin Exp./General Defense and 5th Fleet are). At least in Stock Scenario 1


I believe the 4th fleet and South East Area Fleet are both but their command ranges are 1 and 5 respectively.


Thanks, just tested it 4th fleet a Truk works

Still not sure exactly what are the conditions: I found a thread with some useful information before it became a AFB vs JFB war http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2215545&mpage=1&key=

The useful info
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

A Command Hq (with sufficient supply) can act as an Air Hq for torpedo supply purposes if no Air Hq is in range.





I can't see the abuse.
There are not that many Air or command hqs on either side, and they tend to be spread around the map.

Plus you need the supply available at the base:
for AF 4+, you 2 times (or 1 time with an air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 3, you 5 times (or 1 time with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 2, you 6 times (or 2 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply
for AF 1, you 7 times (or 3 times with a air/command hq present) base's required supply




< Message edited by icepharmy -- 6/27/2014 9:00:38 AM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 18
RE: Do torpedo bombers always need an Air HQ? - 6/27/2014 11:49:43 AM   
czert2

 

Posts: 508
Joined: 2/10/2013
Status: offline 		do you think if implementation of af7+ will automaticaly supply torpedoes even if no hq present will be gamebreaker ? more reality ?

(in reply to pharmy)
Post #: 19
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