Serious bug with ground combat - "teleport" of loosing side unit(s)...

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Serious bug with ground combat - "teleport" of loosing side unit(s)...

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Serious bug with ground combat - "teleport" o... - 4/13/2003 2:13:46 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

There is serious bug with ground combat - "teleport" of loosing side unit(s)...

In certain cases when ground combat occurs the loosing side is sometimes
miraculously "teleported" outside the HEX. In instant they travel 30 miles.

This is 100% unrealistic since, when travelling normally, this same distance
would take several days.

IMHO this is clearly a bug that happens to both sides (Japanese and Allied)
and seriously hampers ground combat in UV (and possibly in WitP).

I strongly believe that loosing side in ground combat should never leave the
HEX where combat is taking place - i.e. battling unit(s) should always stay in
HEX where combat occurred...

Leo "Apollo11"

Post #: 1

- 4/13/2003 8:52:56 PM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

This is not a "bug" per se, this is design decision. Whether it's realistic or "helpful" I wouldn't comment on that but I believe it does not fit into what defines a "bug".

I believe it is done because it would be too easy to completely destroy the units that still have the retreat option, since the game does not allow travel rate of at least "hex per turn" for land units.

O.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 2

- 4/13/2003 10:38:24 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
[B]This is not a "bug" per se, this is design decision. Whether it's realistic or "helpful" I wouldn't comment on that but I believe it does not fit into what defines a "bug".

I believe it is done because it would be too easy to completely destroy the units that still have the retreat option, since the game does not allow travel rate of at least "hex per turn" for land units.

O. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes... I was also thinking whether this is "bug" or not per se...

You are right that this is design decision but I don't think it's right one.

It's because the loosing enemy unit is "teleported" to adjacent HEX and still
fully functional while your friendly units would have very hard time to catch
it and destroy it. Enemy "teleported" unit is in clear advantage.

Therefore this is why I think that this is bug after all...

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 3

- 4/13/2003 10:49:07 PM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

"Teleportation" is just one way to look at it.

UV's scale is simply too big. In most other wargames this is what would happen: two land units would meet in hex X,Y. They would do battle or they would just sit and stare at each other. Player with the weaker unit(s) would retire his unit in some of the adjacent hexes after some time, seeing how unhealthy it is for his unit(s) to stay in the same site with stronger force. Or his unit(s) would retire in the adjacent hex after being defeated in a battle. End of story.

In UV you have to spend N turns to "escape" the dangerous hex and your (stronger) opponent may beat you to annihillation in the mean time, with no effort whatsoever to "pursue" your unit (because it can't escape anyway). This too would be unrealistic. Pac War is full of examples of weaker units on both sides escaping in the jungle to wage guerilla warfare.

Current system looks weird when you consider "30 mile teleportation" but in a grand scheme of things it is very realitic. If you really want to kill the unit - you have to wander into jungle and procecute till the end (as in every anti-guerilla action).

O.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 4

- 4/14/2003 9:17:42 PM

Yamamoto

Posts: 743
Joined: 11/21/2001
From: Miami, Fl. U.S.A.
Status: offline

Perhaps a unit that retreats 30 miles instantly should be charged for the movement the next time it tries to move somewhere. That way the attacking unit would have time to catch up to them before they could move out of that hex into a new hex. That would simulate the fact that they weren�t REALLY 30 miles away from each other. As it is now the attacking unit will never be able to catch the unit it just pushed out of the hex and that just doesn�t seem right.

I wonder how this will work in WitP. The hexes there are 50 or 60 miles. If one unit has to march 50 or 60 miles to catch the unit it just pushed away and the other unit gets to rest during the same time that gives a huge advantage to the pushed out unit. In real-life it would be the defender who took more casualties after they �broke� and ran but I fear the current setup will create the opposite effect.

Yamamoto

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 5

Yes... but... - 4/14/2003 10:35:50 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
[B]"Teleportation" is just one way to look at it.

UV's scale is simply too big. In most other wargames this is what would happen: two land units would meet in hex X,Y. They would do battle or they would just sit and stare at each other. Player with the weaker unit(s) would retire his unit in some of the adjacent hexes after some time, seeing how unhealthy it is for his unit(s) to stay in the same site with stronger force. Or his unit(s) would retire in the adjacent hex after being defeated in a battle. End of story.

In UV you have to spend N turns to "escape" the dangerous hex and your (stronger) opponent may beat you to annihillation in the mean time, with no effort whatsoever to "pursue" your unit (because it can't escape anyway). This too would be unrealistic. Pac War is full of examples of weaker units on both sides escaping in the jungle to wage guerilla warfare.

Current system looks weird when you consider "30 mile teleportation" but in a grand scheme of things it is very realitic. If you really want to kill the unit - you have to wander into jungle and procecute till the end (as in every anti-guerilla action).

O. [/B][/QUOTE]

Oleg, I see your point here and it's valid and important one.

But... the 30nm "teleport" is still 30nm (and it will be 60nm in WitP)...
therefore I simply can't make myself loving it at all...

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 6

- 4/15/2003 12:31:45 AM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

Bah, remove the teleport option and add the "Hide in jungle" option that makes your units stay in same hex but have 90% of their combat strength hidden away so any attacks can only affect 10% of the unit. Perhaps only bombardment type attacks at 50% effectiveness while in this mode? Lots of possibilities without tossing the unit 15+ days away from the base! Perhaps even an additional fatigue/moral penalty caused by these jungle guys lobbing the odd grenade/mortar round once an hour to prevent sleep? :D

Makes more sense.

The current teleport results in your unit having to hike back for 15+ days to fight again, incuring insane fatigue as opposed to still being around to harrass and annoy the new base occupation forces.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 7