Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Japan has to move a unit into the Marshalls for that action to occur.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Japan has to move a unit into the Marshalls for that action to occur.

Technically yes. But aren't there Japanese 'defenders' in the hex when it is attacked?

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Japan militarises Marshalls - this occurs as soon as Japan moves the first unit into any hex on the border of the Marshalls sea area.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

It would likely be more complicated to code it so it's connected with the decision to deny or accept the notional then it would be to code it so only an actual Japanese unit occupying a hex in the Marshalls triggers it.

What about a notional that is OoS and thus worth zero?

Anyway the intent of this US Entry Action is for pre-war to provide some intimidation to Japan not to base CVs there for a higher surprise box port strike on the US west coast (among other reasons). However per the FAQ, all applicable US Entry Actions continue to be operative until the US is at war with all Axis powers.

The rule is very clear:

quote:


Japan militarises Marshalls - this occurs as soon as Japan moves the first unit into any hex on the border of the Marshalls sea area.

You don't need to move anything to have a notional in a hex you own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

The decision about how to code this was made by others, before I became involved with MWIF - that is, before 2004. I am always reluctant to vacate those decisions without a really good reason.

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ORIGINAL: davidachamberlain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

The decision about how to code this was made by others, before I became involved with MWIF - that is, before 2004. I am always reluctant to vacate those decisions without a really good reason.

This definitely looks like a bug to me. The US should not be triggering Japanese US entry actions. Only Japan should be triggering those.

I assume since the US is trying to invade a Japan hex, that either Japan has already declared war on US (or the reverse) or this is incorrectly being triggered when the US should not even be allowed to make that move.

I suggest you should look into this further. It is probably showing the wrong text box as it should either not be allowed to happen at all (as in before US and Japan are at war) or if they are at war, it should have no blocking message at all.

I looked at the US entry options and Japan already militarized the Marshalls (#3) and already declared war on the US (#13).

There should no longer be any Japan related US entry actions related to the Marshalls, since those are both irrelevant.

Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: davidachamberlain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

The decision about how to code this was made by others, before I became involved with MWIF - that is, before 2004. I am always reluctant to vacate those decisions without a really good reason.

This definitely looks like a bug to me. The US should not be triggering Japanese US entry actions. Only Japan should be triggering those.

I assume since the US is trying to invade a Japan hex, that either Japan has already declared war on US (or the reverse) or this is incorrectly being triggered when the US should not even be allowed to make that move.

I suggest you should look into this further. It is probably showing the wrong text box as it should either not be allowed to happen at all (as in before US and Japan are at war) or if they are at war, it should have no blocking message at all.

I looked at the US entry options and Japan already militarized the Marshalls (#3) and already declared war on the US (#13).

There should no longer be any Japan related US entry actions related to the Marshalls, since those are both irrelevant.

Dave

The last sentence isn't true. If a chit get's added due to f.e. the Japanese taking Singapore, when at war with the US, this influences the chances that the US can DoW the Euroaxis....

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ORIGINAL: Centuur

If I understand davidachamberlain correctly, that Japan did militarize the Marshalls earlier in the game already, so with or without an invasion, there should not be a entry roll at all.

Now I can't check this in his gamesave, but Steve probably can check that, to see if there is a bug.

And on the notional being a unit or not where militarizing the Marshalls are concerned, I think someone needs to put this forward to the rules committee.

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ORIGINAL: davidachamberlain

"I" believe that once US and Japan are at war, even if the Marshalls was not militarized, it should not matter.

Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: davidachamberlain

"I" believe that once US and Japan are at war, even if the Marshalls was not militarized, it should not matter.

Dave

Oh yes David, it does matter (unless you were referring to the notional doing the triggering, then I agree). US Entry actions are always rolled for the first time they occur, providing the US is not at war with all of Italy, Germany and Japan (exception: occupying Chinese cities can occur and re-occur if China takes them back). It is the US entry options exclusively against these Axis powers which are deemed to have been taken once the US goes to war with them (exception: Northern Ireland).

So suppose US and Japan are at war, but the US is not at war with Germany and/or Italy, and the Marshalls action has not yet occurred (and I realize that is not the case here), and then the Japanese move a unit into the Marshalls. That definitely triggers a roll for a chit and if the US gets a chit, half its entry value is still useful against the other Axis powers.

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ORIGINAL: davidachamberlain

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: davidachamberlain

"I" believe that once US and Japan are at war, even if the Marshalls was not militarized, it should not matter.

Dave

Oh yes David, it does matter (unless you were referring to the notional doing the triggering, then I agree). US Entry actions are always rolled for the first time they occur, providing the US is not at war with all of Italy, Germany and Japan (exception: occupying Chinese cities can occur and re-occur if China takes them back). It is the US entry options exclusively against these Axis powers which are deemed to have been taken once the US goes to war with them (exception: Northern Ireland).

So suppose US and Japan are at war, but the US is not at war with Germany and/or Italy, and the Marshalls action has not yet occurred (and I realize that is not the case here), and then the Japanese move a unit into the Marshalls. That definitely triggers a roll for a chit and if the US gets a chit, half its entry value is still useful against the other Axis powers.

I just found the clarification for that in the Rules as Coded book (section 13.3.2, page 92 first paragraph) "When the U.S. goes to war with a major power you are treated as having chosen every unchosen entry option aimed at that major power. You still roll for each of the options but don't have to moave a marker to the tension pool when called for unless you so desire (except for your declaration of ware; see 9.4). You do this on a case by case basis."

Dave