SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers

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SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/2/2004 6:23:53 AM

Fred Laws

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline

Has anyone suggested increasing the number of units allowed per side? Currently the limits are 100 Formations and 400 units per side. I have been doing some rather large scenarios with French DLMs vs German Panzer Brigades and have hit upon the limits but found some work arounds. What I would like to do is make a scenario of the French vs Germans at Flavion with a French DCR taking on two German Panzer Brigades/Divisions. For that, the game needs more AI capability.

Larger (deeper) maps would also be a welcome addition that would allow for some "defense in depth" tactics. Is it time to make a "Bigger & Better" Spwaw?

Post #: 1

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/2/2004 11:43:16 AM

Jakub

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/5/2002
From: Poland
Status: offline

Maybe I am a little conservative, but this idea sounds a little bit crazy (dont take me wrong :) ) no to mention that it would be extremely difficult to manage that amount of units
The game would become a series of smaller battles anyway and move closer to the strategy side (although still pretty far away)
However, I personally like smaller ones up to 100 units all together

(in reply to Fred Laws)

Post #: 2

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/2/2004 5:58:44 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred Laws
Is it time to make a "Bigger & Better" Spwaw?

Combat Leader. You have to wait like the rest of us.

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Got StuG?

(in reply to Fred Laws)

Post #: 3

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/2/2004 7:51:45 PM

Gloo

Posts: 272
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Chapelle-Guillaume
Status: offline

On the SP3 box the subtitle was: "Orders to the brigades" ! Although I prefer small battles (around 2000 pts. max.), I'd like to set something bigger up to play with. It would give much more sense to the use of ammo carriers and heavy AA batteries, amongst many other things. It also revive one of my long time wish for this game: the ability to use spotting planes, like the Fieseler Storch! :o) These toys are modeled in SP WW2 (and are really fun to use) which rely on the SP2 game engine! It would make much more sense to see these assets in WaW. Your ideas are interresting but, even though I'm with you on that line, I'd rather see improvements on the gameplay and the interface first in a next version of the game. There's still a LOT to be done there instead of adding more and more units or tweaking the combat system!

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Post #: 4

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/2/2004 9:24:42 PM

WestKent78

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline

Try SP Camo's SPWW2 or SPMBT. They've managed to increase both the number of formations and units and I think map sizes as well, and it's free too. Can't remember exactly how many as my current computer (or geforce card to be precise) won't play them. Frustrating as I had been able to create true brigade sized battles on the individual vehicle scale, but I changed computers before I got time to play them properly. They also have many other bells and whistles such as the air observer alluded to above, and different camoflage for seasons to name a few. Personally, I think they are less gamey than SPWAW- a bonus for me, but they're all great fun and it's great that there are people willing to continue to improve these games and provide their hard work free of charge.
Matthew

(in reply to Gloo)

Post #: 5

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/3/2004 12:07:02 AM

Gloo

Posts: 272
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Chapelle-Guillaume
Status: offline

You're right about WW2 and MBT and as I talked about WW2, I thought it was obvious I actually play it (and MBT too, of course :o)) ! I share your opinion about those games being more "gamey" (assuming I correctly understand what that means :o)) but if they (the cammo group) had chosen the SP3 game engine instead of trying to get the most out of SP2, I'm pretty certain that SP WaW would be far far way back... . I like to play SP WaW mainly for two reasons: the ability to control accurately the oppotunity fire (I still dream of a system "� la Talonsoft" though) and the C&C mechanism (which is, unfortunately, almost always neglected by the PBEM or solo players (a real shame for the scenarii makers who seem to be forced to design their games with these "out of the box" players on target)). SP WW2 is far better when it comes to OoB, use of maps (you can control almost everything (in the last v7.0), ranging from the base size to the number of turns; the distribution of victory hexes; the starting lines, or even generate a totally different map for a particular battle (even in campaign mode!) not mentioning the altitudes, wich make WaW maps looking ridiculously flat!) or the chain of command. It's a wonderful part of the gameplay, being able to add units to your core during the course of a campaign or to dispatch units from a company to another one. That's a big flaw (imo) of WaW that a company leader isn't really leading its own company (in fact, he only seems to lead himself and its personnal assets :o)). These things make it hard to maintain something cohesive and "looking" realistic in WaW and it's sad because the C&C was the ideal base to develop something similar to what WW2 has achieved but in a much more complete and attractive way. Maybe one bright coming day... .
To stick to the original thread, I would add that I don't think SP WW2 is a good candidate to simulate brigade level battles. It lacks the C&C system and I (we) must face it: the SP2 game engine is too old to continue to push it that far (I recently upgraded from W98 SE to XP and there are issues with this game that begin to be really annoying (ie the mouse problems). I think it's time to mix the best of the two worlds (SP WW2 and WaW) to finally (ten years after!) give the oldest fans and the new comers a must from this tremendous series. It's a real pity but each time I try to think of it seriously, I always end with the conclusion that there is still no other game system that can compete with this one. After all these years, nobody as been able to simply take the best of this game and create something new that could push it from my computer shelves to the attic! too bad! (Please, don't come with Combat Leader... :o))

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Post #: 6

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/7/2004 6:21:24 PM

vulkansanex

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline

More units would be a blessing. I'd wave my little flag in support of that improvement.

As it is now playing maxpoints Gerries vs Soviets I feel that to as a Soviet player you tend to go too tank heavy as you want to spend your points.

Imagine having 1000 infantry rushing to swamp the germans - using tank spearheads in areas where he is overwhelemd.
(Beutiful)

Not that I'm complaining..

(in reply to Fred Laws)

Post #: 7

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/7/2004 6:43:00 PM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

These games in their original format (except for SP3) were designed for company and battalion level conflicts. While I enjoy every rare once in awhile, those monster battles (I've even designed a few for the SPWAW game, see scenarios 032, 082, and 104), most folks just don't have the time to play a battle that may take many hours to complete.

As you may notice from the scenarios mentioned above, you can end up including quite a sizable force with what we have in SPWAW.

WIld Bill

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(in reply to vulkansanex)

Post #: 8

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/7/2004 8:33:17 PM

robot

Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline

I for one find the force size adaquit for my style. I guess i have the max force in my Japs against the Russian battle. When they can move only one hex at atime it takes along time to move them across the map. Also i always seem to lose a MMG or ATR. They are very hard to see sometime.

To do a turn takes quite sometime if you have the oppurtunity to move all of them. Thats why some time im only able to do from 3 to 5 turns in a day. I just get tired of moving everyone. I have my Japan assault in turn 25 right now of i think 36. What with doin all the battles in the long campaign for every Major power is goin to take a lot of time. I dont know maybe 10 years im thinkin and hoping. Ill have to tell the big man i hate to make him wait but i just got to do another battle.

Old Tex Ritter song about cigerettes if any one was wondering.

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Post #: 9

RE: SPWAW - Pushing the Size Barriers - 9/14/2004 5:49:59 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred Laws

Has anyone suggested increasing the number of units allowed per side? Currently the limits are 100 Formations and 400 units per side. I have been doing some rather large scenarios with French DLMs vs German Panzer Brigades and have hit upon the limits but found some work arounds. What I would like to do is make a scenario of the French vs Germans at Flavion with a French DCR taking on two German Panzer Brigades/Divisions. For that, the game needs more AI capability.

Larger (deeper) maps would also be a welcome addition that would allow for some "defense in depth" tactics. Is it time to make a "Bigger & Better" Spwaw?

Did you consider playing a Huge (100x240) map bottom up, instead of left to right? Also, if you don�t care about crews not spawning from destroyed or damaged vehicles or guns, you can use the full unit limit of 400 units overall for your scenario.

Breaking down the large battle into smaller ones and making a campaign of it also sounds like an interesting option.

What do you mean with "the game needs more AI capability"? There�s lots you can do to make the AI to behave satisfactorily, but with regard to the intended size of your scenario (or possible campaign) it�s lots of work and you should have a handful of good testers to your avail!

As additional option you could try to build your scenario with CamoGroups SP2WW2 V7.x game. Despite its lack of CC and handling of user OP fire, it has tons of features to like and it gets constantly better every few months. It�s a sheer wonder what they pull out of the dated DOS engine and the limited screen resolution!

Harry

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(in reply to Fred Laws)

Post #: 10