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1943 Campaign and aircraft problems

 
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1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 5:28:47 AM   
thebeis

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,
1943 Campaign. Version 1.21. Game started after patching.
At Anchorage, I received 3 partial air units VBF-13/1, /2. /3. these units all came in with 9 planes and zero pilots. They now have 9 planes 4 or 5 pilots each and 25 planes in reserve. There is no button to rebuild unit. There are no other VBF-13 sub-units that I can find on the map or in the replacement que.

Any ideas?
Post #: 1
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 6:25:13 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Join them up with their main body.

Either load them on a ship, or move the main body to them.

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 2
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 7:13:31 PM   
thebeis

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/13/2004
Status: offline 		Mr. Frag,
Thanks.... That is what I would do if I could find the "main body" or the "parent" unit.

No other VBF-13 exists on the map or in the replacement que.

Also the same problem now exists at Pearl Harbor. There are three partial VBF units there that are doing the same thing. They don't have any "main body' or "parent" units either.

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 3
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 7:21:19 PM   
PeteG662


Posts: 1263
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline 		would a withdraw or disband work here to get rid of a few or is the aircraft capacity an issue? I know that only partially cures it since they are still separated from the "parent" unit.

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 4
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 7:59:59 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Also the same problem now exists at Pearl Harbor. There are three partial VBF units there that are doing the same thing. They don't have any "main body' or "parent" units either.


So there is no main group without the /# ?

Thats a problem

Send me the save please.

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 5
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 8:30:09 PM   
PeteG662


Posts: 1263
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline 		This could happen if multiple transports were transporting the unit in pieces and the one with the "parent" unit was sunk, correct?

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 6
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 8:55:59 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

This could happen if multiple transports were transporting the unit in pieces and the one with the "parent" unit was sunk, correct?


No, when this happens, the remaining part should become the "parent" unit. If it does not happen, you end up with a vanishing unit (units that unload then disappear as soon as the unload has completed)

There *MUST* be a parent unit at ALL times for everything on the map.

The bugs around this generally come from the election process not getting called when a parent dies in a new and strange manner.

(in reply to PeteG662)
Post #: 7
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 9:36:54 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		The parent could be already loaded on a transport. I've noticed the LCU loaded don't appear on the full LCU list, but i'm not sure about air units.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 8
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 9:57:16 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Just checked ... Air Unit parents when loaded on an AK will show up in the List all naval aircraft report.

The fragments being at a Land base will show up on the List all land aircraft report.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 9
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 10:43:07 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Thanks. Might be a good idea to do that with the LCUs.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 10
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 10:48:15 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Good point ... but that list be long!

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 11
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 11:06:43 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Sure is but then there's filters.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 12
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/10/2004 11:13:50 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Sure is but then there's filters.


Already added to the list of *stuff*

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 13
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 3:30:26 PM   
kayjay


Posts: 133
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: JS J4 Pentagon
Status: offline 		This is needed often times a LCU/3 peice is left and its parent on a Transport and you have to cycle thru all troop carrying TFs to find where to send the fragment, or wait till parent arrives and appears on land unit list.

_____________________________

Kevin Kelley

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 14
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 5:27:01 PM   
thebeis

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hello again,

Some further information.

I was paying close attention to and I noticed that a statement similar too:"36 Hellcat aircraft arrive at Pearl Harbor"

During my next turn lo and behold. Another VF-XX/1 squadron of 36 Hellcats had appeared at Pearl with out a parent unit anywhere else on the map.

This new squadron had zero pilots and 36 Hellcats.

So I guess these partial squadrons without parent units are truly replacement aircraft that are meant to be disbanded/withdrawn into existing squadrons. Notice however that they are carrier trained and this makes it very hard to disband/withdraw them.


However, the upgrade now buttons are not active and in 8/44 there are no more SBD units on the map. Thus the VBF-XX/1 squadron of 9 aircraft with 125 in reserve will never be used. No way to make them active.

(in reply to kayjay)
Post #: 15
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 5:55:42 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Have you checked your carriers?

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 16
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 6:45:13 PM   
kayjay


Posts: 133
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: JS J4 Pentagon
Status: offline 		Replacement sqn always have an 'R" in their name and never seem go have a parent. GIve them a few days and the pilots will show up.

_____________________________

Kevin Kelley

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 17
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 6:55:32 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		VF and VBF are carrier groups, like TwoTribes said ... Are there any Essex's stuck out in the middle of the ocean?

(in reply to kayjay)
Post #: 18
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 9:58:34 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Strange I'm playing scenario12, 1943 and I've just had 3 SBD air units turn up in Lunga. VBF 10/1, VBF 15/1 and VBF 8/1 each containing 36 planes. I've not lost any carriers in the game, I checked all the carriers and there are no parents.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 19
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 10:35:56 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I've just checked scenario 12 database through the editor. All three SBD air units are shown as belong to the Enterprise (VBF 10), Essex (VBF-15), and Bunker Hill (VBF 8). All the carriers are on the map undamaged with a full compliment of aircraft (36 x VF, 36 x VB and 18 x VT) If you add the other air units each carrier would have 126 A/C on it?

Seem to be a problem with the database.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 20
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/13/2004 10:50:43 PM   
thebeis

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hello again,
I checked for the ship that had the VBF-13 on it. It was an Essex class but I forget which one. (At work).

Found the carrier and VBF-13 was listed as VB-13. Not VBF-13 as I would expect.

Strange.....

< Message edited by thebeis -- 9/13/2004 8:53:32 PM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 21
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/14/2004 12:31:06 AM   
Caranorn


Posts: 424
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Luxembourg
Status: offline 		US carrier groups are supposed to change in 1944 or so IIRC. But I don't recall for sure how (it's in an appendix at teh end of the manual). I think you should end up with a VF, VBF, VB and VT or something like that. Maybe this is a bug related to that change of organisation.

In any case, you should be able to identify the parent units as USN squadron numbers are usually based on the pennant number of their carrier (I probably have a list somewhere if needed, though it should be obvious from the in game OOB).

I wonder whether the Essex replacement carriers aren't messing up OOB's too. (That's one weird rule, I will have to compare the WitP OOB for CV's, CA's and CL's with historic constructions some time, hadn't payed any attention to that yet).

Marc aka Caran...

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 22
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/14/2004 3:34:43 AM   
thebeis

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hello again,
Here is still more information.

VBF-1 is listed in the data base for the Yorktown(Essex Class)
On the Yorktown is VB-1. (Not VBF-1)
VBF-1 is unit ID 2415 which is not in the data base.

VBF-18 is listed in the data base for the Intepid.
The Intrepid has VB-18, not VBF-18.

Same for VBF-13 and the Franklin with VB-13.

The unit IDs for the problem squadrons are:
2415 (VBF-1/2)
2411 (VBF-18/1)
2412 (VBF-1/1)
2417 (VBF-13/1)
None are in the database so these units resulted from something else.

(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 23
RE: 1943 Campaign and aircraft problems - 9/14/2004 1:25:07 PM   
pry


Posts: 1410
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Overlooking Galveston Bay, Texas
Status: offline 		What is the game date? and does any one have a save of this the turn before the 1st group of replacements arrive, just from reading this thread is seems that *maybe* the 1/45 carrier air group change is kicking in early (none of the VBF squadrons are supposed to arrive before 1/45 change)

slots above 2400 are reserved for the computers use, Ie: divided groups and sub units (replacements)

Please send save to pry-witp@houston.rr.com

Thanks

[Edit] After digging deeper into this. there is a data base issue with scenario 12 and the VFB groups and will fix that part.

I still need a save to figure why they are coming into the game early.

< Message edited by pry -- 9/14/2004 5:54:03 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to thebeis)
Post #: 24
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