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RE: Map Graphics - 11/4/2005 1:00:07 PM

markhwalker

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

Tom,

As I said before, you're a good guy. You have a valid opinions... as do many others on this forum. That doesn't mean I agree with it/them.

I do, however, respect it/them. And I also respect the way you have stated your opinion. I like your Brecourt maps.

Best,

Mark

(in reply to mbtanker)

Post #: 61

RE: Map Graphics - 11/4/2005 4:38:37 PM

stevel40831

Posts: 83
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline

I can't believe this thread has this much life!

I love the game, don't like the halos... I think it takes away from the great looking maps. Just because you get used to them after a while doesn't mean you like them. I have a bunch of junk piled up on my computer desk, it looks like a mess (well, ok, it is a mess...) but I'm used to it and don't notice it anymore. Just because I'm used to it doesn't mean it wouldn't look better cleaned up and organized.

Again, I love the game, won't stop playing it because of the halos. But, since someone mentioned voting, I would be pretty stongly in the "down with halos" camp.

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 62

RE: Map Graphics - 11/5/2005 1:51:58 AM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

Tom,

As I said before, you're a good guy. You have a valid opinions... as do many others on this forum. That doesn't mean I agree with it/them. I do, however, respect it/them. And I also respect the way you have stated your opinion. I like your Brecourt maps.

Best,

Mark

Nicely put Mark. I'm very glad you like the map.

luegop amigo.

Tom

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 63

RE: Map Graphics - 11/9/2005 12:51:30 AM

Larac

Posts: 250
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

Tom,

As I said before, you're a good guy. You have a valid opinions... as do many others on this forum. That doesn't mean I agree with it/them. I do, however, respect it/them. And I also respect the way you have stated your opinion. I like your Brecourt maps.

Best,

Mark

So Mark,

As MAtrix had mentioned a vote, you have VETOED it.

Will you buy this unplayable game back then?

Lee

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 64

RE: Map Graphics - 11/9/2005 9:12:17 PM

Rael

Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline

"So Mark,

As MAtrix had mentioned a vote, you have VETOED it.

Will you buy this unplayable game back then?

Lee"

I voted for Prell to go back to the old glass bottle. Then I became deeply cynical. ( about voting )

H Simpson

BTW, I would also choose no halo's if it were an option but to say "unplayable" is kinda drastic. This game has so many strong points
I really don't even notice them while playing.

< Message edited by Rael -- 11/9/2005 9:28:10 PM >

(in reply to Larac)

Post #: 65

RE: Map Graphics - 11/10/2005 12:03:24 AM

David Heath

Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline

Hi Guys

Mark was Vetoing the poll since we been discussing making available a downloadable grey or black hex outline map sheets. Gamers would need to print these out and mount over the white hex map versions. We will not be providing non-white mounted maps. This is still being discussed and will not happend before Jan 05.

_____________________________

(in reply to Rael)

Post #: 66

RE: Map Graphics - 11/10/2005 11:48:55 AM

markhwalker

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

As MAtrix had mentioned a vote, you have VETOED it.

Len,

Set up a vote that includes all the thousands of gamers that have bought the three LnL games. All of them, not just folks like yourself, and I'll abide by the vote. No problem.

But of course THAT vote, that fair and objective vote, would tally up at about 98.5% FOR the maps and a vocal 1.5% against the maps. I know, I have enough data in hand.

Making ludicrous statements such as "unplayable game" does little to help your cause, but I know that I can't change your mind in this most impotent of venues... the Internet forums. Hence, like David said, we'll provide maps for download with the bland hexgrid.

Frankly, pal, people like Tom (Mangua) I can talk with all day. It's not the difference in opinion I mind, it's the inflammatory language you use like "unplayable game... gives me a headache, yadda, yadda." Again, like I've said several times. These anti-halo opinions represent 1.5% percent of purchases, and so far only ONE (that's one, single, solitary, unique, uno) "player" out of the thousands upon thousands who have bought the LnL series.

Best,

Mark

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 67

RE: Map Graphics - 11/10/2005 3:57:33 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

The upshot is that we will be providing an alternate hex grid for download, Larac.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 68

RE: Map Graphics - 11/11/2005 4:59:59 AM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline

We object to the absence of dead cows.

Are you guys biased or something?

Adam Parker
On behalf:
AADF
(Affirmative Action for Dairy Farmers).

(PS: Please don't put a halo around them when you do include them. They're saintly enough).

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 69

RE: Map Graphics - 11/11/2005 3:47:14 PM

David Heath

Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Now that was funny Adam.

David

_____________________________

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 70

RE: Map Graphics - 11/11/2005 4:52:26 PM

markhwalker

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

dead cows

There was a tactical game with dead cows. It was from the company whose name we will not mention.

(in reply to David Heath)

Post #: 71

RE: Map Graphics - 11/11/2005 7:14:57 PM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

We object to the absence of dead cows.

Are you guys biased or something?

Adam Parker
On behalf:
AADF
(Affirmative Action for Dairy Farmers).

(PS: Please don't put a halo around them when you do include them. They're saintly enough).

You want dead cows? I'll give you dead cows. Would they be considered degrading terrain? Or should there be a penalty for units in the same space because of the demoralizing nature of the rather offensive bouquet?

Hey look fellas. I've been as outspoken in this debate as anyone, and Mark and I have exchanged our thoughts on this at length. Now I wouldn't say that I'm a born-again halo supporter, but I've been playing around with it, and have decided that halos can be quite useful. Ironically, I discovered this myself when doing the Brecourt map. The wide range in contrast of the terrain colors that I use makes it very difficult to see the hex-grid in some areas. A haloed hexgrid solves this problem. Check out the map. Granted, I use a more muted grid, but I'll bet there are some here who will feel it's not bright enough.

Anyway, wouldn't we rather have Mark working on his next project than having to respond to what is almost certainly an unending and unresolvable debate?

Now, does any one have any source photos of dead cows? Ooo. That reminds me. I gotta take those steaks outta the freezer.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 72

RE: Map Graphics - 11/26/2005 11:48:38 AM

PDiFolco

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

Hi,
Looks like a real war here ! I'm only a "demo player", but the first things that struck me was that :
1/ The map art is wonderful - after seeing them I compared to ASL and man, the ASL maps looks to me like Panzerblitz maps now I've seen BoH ones !
2/ Still it's too dark ...for my convenience I've upped the luminosity 18% on the jpg mapfiles, now it's to my taste ;)
3/ And the mapboards are really *marred* with those awful, flashy, way-too-big, haloing hexsides !! I really hate them, mainly because when you look at the map you mostly see the hexes and not the terrain... So to speak, like a beautiful girl face behind a burqha headwear

(leave in low crawl mode

)

(in reply to Magua)

Post #: 73

White Halos Rule !!! - 11/27/2005 8:14:39 PM

davebaldini

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/9/2005
Status: offline

holy sh*t, I have not seen this much bitch*ing since the last Gay Pride Parade in SF...

play the damn game people, get online with guys like crabe, deadrise, and me and PLAY THE GAME...

lets show a little gratitude to Mark H., E. Rutkins, Heath, et al. for bringing us an ultra cool game which is a refreshing alternative to the monstrosity (albeit still a guilty pleasure) that ASL has become...

and for only 70.00 bucks or so its a freakin steal if you ask me, and i have been playing wargames since i was 8 (i am 46 now unfortunately)...i am extremely happy with BoH, the maps are beautiful...

all of us wargamers are obsessive-compulsive to some degree, but this is ridiculous...how bout posting some aar's INSTEAD of the constant grousing?

i'd love to play some of you "white halo" boneheads online on VASSAL, i'd whip your ass cuz you'd be so busy freakin out about the halos and center hex dots that i'd have no problem wiping up the floor with you....

in case some of you knuckleheads havent noticed, there arent a helluva lot of good board wargames out there...this is still somewhat of a rareified hobby....games like BoH dont come down the road that often.

this jewel of a game is more than just the sum of its parts...hell, i got my videogame addicted sons (8,10) playing it for godsake...that about says it all...funny thing is, neither one of them have mentioned the halos or the center hex dots, and they play videogames on a 60 INCH PLASMA IN HIGH DEF....i rest my case.

White Halos Rule !

dave baldini

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 74

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 11/30/2005 12:59:41 PM

markhwalker

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

Dave,

I'll try to get online tonight. I haven't been able to play in awhile.

Dead Cows? Shrapnel actually had them in their "101: The AB Invasion of Normandy." The Paras did use them for cover, but it must have been bloody. We could certainly make a dead cow counter to be placed on the map. I think it would be degrading terrain, +1 TM but -1 to the morale of any units in the hex. How does that sound?

And I've decided that you 3-4 halo haters are correct. I've decided to do away with them. In fact I've decided to do away with hexes... or any of the more destracting terrain like buildings, trees, walls, etc. It'll be much cheaper to just throw the counters on the floor, measure movement with a ruler, and play that way.

Bow to the Halo!

Best,

Mark

(in reply to davebaldini)

Post #: 75

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 11/30/2005 7:37:00 PM

stevel40831

Posts: 83
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker ...

Dead Cows? Shrapnel actually had them in their "101: The AB Invasion of Normandy." The Paras did use them for cover, but it must have been bloody. We could certainly make a dead cow counter to be placed on the map. I think it would be degrading terrain, +1 TM but -1 to the morale of any units in the hex. How does that sound?

I think it would be best if you could make them "hexsides" somehow... then, you could hide behind them to get the modifiers that you're talking about (kind of like hedges, walls, etc). What you're saying above isn't realistic in my opinion because the units in the hex would be considered under or inside the cow, rather than behind it. Putting the cows on hexsides allows you to sneak behind units and fire from behind so that the defending unit loses the DC (dead cow) modifier. Also, certain weapon-types should be able to penetrate the cow... in order to be more realistic of course. For example, if a support-type weapon or higher shoots through a cow hexside, units adjacent to the hexside should have to make a morale check with a +1 DRM, simulating freaking out over being splattered with cow guts.

Hmmm, ... what if you shoot down the spine of a cow hexside?

Should cow hexsides have halos?

Thanks, hope you can implement these suggestions soon!

Steve

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 76

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 11/30/2005 8:26:14 PM

markhwalker

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Should cow hexsides have halos?

Absolutely not. The horror!

And while I'm at it, I've asked God if he can do something about those ugly angel halos.

I've even decided to scrub the halo in my bathtub.

Best,

Mark

(in reply to stevel40831)

Post #: 77

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 2:28:19 AM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: davebaldini

holy sh*t, I have not seen this much bitch*ing since the last Gay Pride Parade in SF...

play the damn game people, get online with guys like crabe, deadrise, and me and PLAY THE GAME...

lets show a little gratitude to Mark H., E. Rutkins, Heath, et al. for bringing us an ultra cool game which is a refreshing alternative to the monstrosity (albeit still a guilty pleasure) that ASL has become...

and for only 70.00 bucks or so its a freakin steal if you ask me, and i have been playing wargames since i was 8 (i am 46 now unfortunately)...i am extremely happy with BoH, the maps are beautiful...

all of us wargamers are obsessive-compulsive to some degree, but this is ridiculous...how bout posting some aar's INSTEAD of the constant grousing?

i'd love to play some of you "white halo" boneheads online on VASSAL, i'd whip your ass cuz you'd be so busy freakin out about the halos and center hex dots that i'd have no problem wiping up the floor with you....

in case some of you knuckleheads havent noticed, there arent a helluva lot of good board wargames out there...this is still somewhat of a rareified hobby....games like BoH dont come down the road that often.

this jewel of a game is more than just the sum of its parts...hell, i got my videogame addicted sons (8,10) playing it for godsake...that about says it all...funny thing is, neither one of them have mentioned the halos or the center hex dots, and they play videogames on a 60 INCH PLASMA IN HIGH DEF....i rest my case.

White Halos Rule !

dave baldini

Mr. Baldini-

This is about the most offensive post I have seen in these forums since I've been hanging out here. Let's see. We start off with a homophobic wisecrack/insult and graduate to name-calling aimed at veteran members of this forum. All this is stirred briskly with a stupifying blend of arrogance and braggadoccio.

I wonder if you would do us all a favor, and follow your own recommendation of posting some "aar's" instead of your grousing.

Regards,

Magua

(in reply to davebaldini)

Post #: 78

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 2:41:41 AM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

And I've decided that you 3-4 halo haters are correct. I've decided to do away with them. In fact I've decided to do away with hexes... or any of the more destracting terrain like buildings, trees, walls, etc. It'll be much cheaper to just throw the counters on the floor, measure movement with a ruler, and play that way.

Bow to the Halo!

Best,

Mark

Hey! I have a better idea. Make the halos and dots BIGGER. Yeah bigger. Twice the width. Three times even. Then we could get rid of terrain art altogether. We could replace it with a letter in each hex, W=Woods, S=Stone Building, R=Road. Think how easy it would be. And since we'd be doing away with the map graphics, think how much cheaper the game would be. And by putting the cart so firmly in front of the horse, in fact, getting rid of the horse altogether, there'd be nothing for us to squabble about anymore. Problem solved.

Yeah, I know. Nobody likes a smartass. I gotta go catch "Murder She Wrote."

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 79

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 7:45:10 AM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

And I've decided that you 3-4 halo haters are correct. I've decided to do away with them. In fact I've decided to do away with hexes... or any of the more destracting terrain like buildings, trees, walls, etc. It'll be much cheaper...

Exactly! Someone has seen the light

As I've always said, if companies just stopped selling and got rid of their sales departments, they'd save so much money!

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 80

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 11:58:09 AM

JeF

Posts: 1170
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker
I've decided to do away with them. In fact I've decided to do away with hexes... or any of the more destracting terrain like buildings, trees, walls, etc. It'll be much cheaper to just throw the counters on the floor, measure movement with a ruler, and play that way.

You should get rid of the turn sequence altogether, what an outdated feature. A modern game engine uses PCT (Pausable Continuous Time). It is soooo much more more realistic.

Get rid of the hexes and the terrain but keep the halos, they look so cute anyway. White halos on white map, what a concept.

JeF.

_____________________________

Rendez-vous at Loenen before 18:00.
Don't loose your wallet !
Conquest Of The Aegean Web Development Team
The Drop Zone

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 81

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 12:30:56 PM

markhwalker

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Hey! I have a better idea. Make the halos and dots BIGGER. Yeah bigger. Twice the width. Three times even. Then we could get rid of terrain art altogether.

Yeah!, but that really wouldn't make anything cheaper. Most of the cost for the maps (at least in this case) was for the thick boards.

You know we could not only make the halos thicker, but we could also raise them... emboss, so to speak. I really like the idea of white halos on white maps, I also like the idea of doing away with a turn sequence. Hey, I didn't have any turn sequence when I played with toy soldiers as a kid, and I had a great time.

Tom, please take it easy on Dave. He's a nice guy (as are you). I think he was just a little frustrated with the halo discussion. As you know, it used to frustrate me, but I think it has taken a turn for the better in the last few days. These have been some very productive posts.

The next thing I think we should work on are the highlights surrounding the firepower, etc, on the counters. I think they are also distracting. I propose we take the numbers right off the counters. What say y'all?

Best,

Mark

(in reply to JeF)

Post #: 82

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 2:42:42 PM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

Mark-

I'm sorry Mark. But in just about any other forum I've participated in, Dave's post would have gotten him banned. Are anti-gay jokes permitted here? What about "black," "retard," or "Polish" jokes? Are they okay too? And the name-calling is also acceptible? By telling me to go easy on him, you are condoning this conduct.

I am not so troubled by the nature of Mr. Baldini's post, godknows he is not unique. What is interesting to me is the lack of official reprimand. It has that "let's all lay low, pretend we didn't see that, and it will go away" feel to it.

Attacks on social groups of any kind, even joking, is repugnant. Attacks against other forum members should be considered unacceptible as well. This type of behavior is not constructive, and does not serve this community.

If you like or don't like halos, fine state a case for it. If this discussion gets on one's nerves, there's an easy solution. Avoid this thread.

Best to all,

Magua

(in reply to markhwalker)

Post #: 83

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 6:15:13 PM

davebaldini

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/9/2005
Status: offline

I dont know where to start with you magua...you have fueled this entire debate regarding graphics and have made numerous negative and sarcastic remarks in your posts...to see all your indignation and self righteous teeth gnashing over my post seems a tad bit disingenuous...

let me respond to your last 2 posts calling for my banishment and / or censure from the boards...

1. I was born in SF and embrace diversity in all its regal splendor and many variations. I am married to an African-American woman and my brother is gay. I simply dont appreciate all your complaining... so your response is to call me a bigot and have me banned???...come on, surely you can do better than that.

I was making a joke, albeit not one of my best, about all the hoopla regarding the graphics/white halos...frankly it was assuming a life of its own and detracting from my enjoyment of this board...there was NO ill intent towards gays/lesbians or those who engage in alternative lifestyles...I did not know you were gay, and I certainly apologize for having offended you....to call my remarks an "attack" against a social group is ludicrous and simply not true...your remarks are indicative of the decline of western civilization as political correctness, race baiting, and reactionary groups turn this country into a three ring circus.

2.you should lighten up a bit, your obsession with the white halos, and now with my post, is not healthy....i am a board certified physician, i do have some experience in these matters.

3.My main point is that more people should get online and play, this game rocks! maybe you should start a separate thread on changes you'd like to see in future expansions.

4.I do believe Mark,Eric, Matrix,et al. should get more props for this game , not to mention all they have done to revive a hobby which had been dying on the vine for quite some time.

i'll try and keep my frustration to myself, but i felt like defending Mark and the guys and I stand by that.

best regards, dave baldini

ps-is magua your first name, and what does it mean?

(in reply to Magua)

Post #: 84

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/1/2005 11:14:37 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Allright, I think enough has been said by everyone. The internet is excellent for creating the impression that people are rude obnoxious bastards when, if saying the same thing in person, they would not come across that way at all.

Magua, you've been a great contributor and poster here and in support of BoH. We definitely hope that you will continue to participate in the BoH community.

Dave, you haven't posted here much, but I hope you'll stick around too. I read your post as you intended, but I could also see exactly how it would come across differently on the internet. It has nothing to do with being PC, it's just that none of the other conversational cues exist when making a post. No one can tell your mood, your expression or your tone of voice, so it leaves a lot open for interpretation.

Both of you have jumped to some conclusions here. I think you are both reasonable people and can realize that there need be no ill will on either side. Dave, Magua, please shake virtual hands and return to discussing map graphics in this thread, if it needs to continue at all.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to davebaldini)

Post #: 85

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/2/2005 3:52:12 AM

WO1GKW

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/5/2005
From: Virginia
Status: offline

There goes another board...
I never liked Jerry Springer either.
Later

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 86

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/2/2005 5:21:33 AM

Magua

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/31/2005
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

Hey Dave-

Actually, I'm not gay. I'm sorry to admit that I'm only an agnostic.

Magua is the name of the bad Huron guy in "The Last of the Mohicans." I had watched the movie the night before I registered, and the system kept rejecting the userids that were my first choices. Magua popped into my head and it was accepted. Good thing too. My next choice was Chingachgook.

Dave, check out some of the earlier posts in this thread. This issue has really been put to bed already. I've stated my full support of Mark's decision that the halos are a permanent component. Some newcommers have since posted their opinions, but for the most part we have all been content to discuss the pluses and minuses of dead cows of late.

There are some addons to the game that some forum members have contributed. So, your suggestion of this kind of thing is already in place. Check it out.

luego amigo.

(in reply to davebaldini)

Post #: 87

RE: White Halos Rule !!! - 12/2/2005 10:55:38 AM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline

No kidding, you can buy this in Australia and it's a great dessert!