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weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS

 
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weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/3/2006 4:32:18 PM   
omegaall


Posts: 317
Joined: 7/28/2003
Status: offline 		In the thread "Mike Wood, OOB Question please help" at:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1060169

I raised the issue of how actually each weapon slot operates. Some answers seem to strongly disagree with the effects and behaviour of weapons in the 4 slots I have seen occur.

I started to conduced a few test, still ongoing, using vehicles of each class, using icons with turrets or without for experiment.

The following is a brief summary of tests so far.
Each vehicle was immobilised so it was not able to face the target.


Unit class........W1.....W2.....W3.....W4...Turret
.................slot...slot...slot...slot......
Armored car.......n......y......y......y.....W/T
Light Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T
Main Battle Tank..n......y......y......y.....W/T
Heavy Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T
CS Tank...........n......y......y......y.....W/T
Flame Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T
Assult Gun......L/F/R..L/F/R..L/F/R..L/F/R...W/T
Assult Gun........n......n......n......n.....WO/T
SP ATG..........L/F/R..L/F/R..L/F/R..L/F/R...W/T
SP ATG............n......n......n......n.....WO/T

W/T :- with turret icon
WO/T :- without a turret icon
y = 360 degree fire ability
n = forward arc only
L/F/R = 180 degree arc from Left to Right forward
direction only

As can be seen from this the behaviour is not always what is expected.

I still have more tests to complete but from what appears to be occurring I thought it might be of interest.
Post #: 1
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/11/2006 4:12:15 PM   
omegaall


Posts: 317
Joined: 7/28/2003
Status: offline 		Nothing like posting to your ownself .. BUT is it worth or of interest in publishing any more results on this?
Seems a bit of a dead issue..

(in reply to omegaall)
Post #: 2
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/11/2006 7:00:41 PM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		The expected behaviour is that the main turret-mounted gun should be able to fire in a 360 degree arc; the bow mounted gun should be able to fire only in the forward direction.

Your results appear to contradict this.

Does this also occur with opfire?

Have you tested with some of the other tank classes?

(in reply to omegaall)
Post #: 3
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/12/2006 2:32:13 PM   
omegaall


Posts: 317
Joined: 7/28/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Destruction

The expected behaviour is that the main turret-mounted gun should be able to fire in a 360 degree arc; the bow mounted gun should be able to fire only in the forward direction.

Your results appear to contradict this.


The results I bothered to post produced interesting outcomes. Some of teh SP ARty also produced even more interseting results whne teh vehicle was fitted witha turret.

The rersults I have suggest that unit class also has some control on weapon behaviour other than just slot numberand turret.

Also there is a strong suggestuion from vehicles such as tanks ath weapon slots #1 - #3 are all turret controlled and only slot #4 is hull based..

quote:


Does this also occur with opfire?

Have you tested with some of the other tank classes?

opfire is a bit hard to test but I have run teh enemy past a vehicle in all direction. When its in a field of view zone for that direction the vehicle can fire on it. The best view field is forward. The otehr direction on an immobilized vehicle seem limited..

I have done other tests , I hope to test all vehicle classes on this aspect.
I did not and have not posted anything as it seems that such issues are of little importance..
besides the thread that started this off seems to have got bogged down on triva..

perhaps others may take the issue up



< Message edited by omegaall -- 3/12/2006 2:33:23 PM >

(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 4
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/13/2006 4:43:40 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: omegaall

Also there is a strong suggestuion from vehicles such as tanks ath weapon slots #1 - #3 are all turret controlled and only slot #4 is hull based..



Your test report below, shows the main gun as hull mounted and weapons 2-4 as turret mounted, no?

quote:


Unit class........W1.....W2.....W3.....W4...Turret
.................slot...slot...slot...slot......

Light Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T
Main Battle Tank..n......y......y......y.....W/T
Heavy Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T
CS Tank...........n......y......y......y.....W/T
Flame Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T



Where the n in the weapon 1 column indicates firing in the forward arc only?



quote:



I did not and have not posted anything as it seems that such issues are of little importance..


perhaps others may take the issue up




IMHO they are important.

Something in the class coding needs to be investigated by the programmer to ensure that the weapons are behaving properly. I am sure that some unit classes with a weapon in slot 4 will fire this weapon in a 360 arc.

While we are discussing class characteristics, this might be the time to bring up the question of terrain travel by class. For example, halftracks can drive through hedges and bocage without penalty. This can not be right. Also some tank classes display peculiar travel characteristics. It appears that when the class list was expanded, that insufficient attention to detail was displayed.


< Message edited by Major Destruction -- 3/13/2006 4:44:33 AM >

(in reply to omegaall)
Post #: 5
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/13/2006 9:46:18 AM   
omegaall


Posts: 317
Joined: 7/28/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Destruction

quote:

ORIGINAL: omegaall

Also there is a strong suggestuion from vehicles such as tanks ath weapon slots #1 - #3 are all turret controlled and only slot #4 is hull based..



Your test report below, shows the main gun as hull mounted and weapons 2-4 as turret mounted, no?

quote:


Unit class........W1.....W2.....W3.....W4...Turret
.................slot...slot...slot...slot......

Light Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T
Main Battle Tank..n......y......y......y.....W/T
Heavy Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T
CS Tank...........n......y......y......y.....W/T
Flame Tank........n......y......y......y.....W/T



Where the n in the weapon 1 column indicates firing in the forward arc only?

Sorry the numbering system is the order I did the weapon tests actually.
W1 = Slot #4 .. W4 = #1. Its a bit confusing but I know what I was doing anyway
quote:



I did not and have not posted anything as it seems that such issues are of little importance..


perhaps others may take the issue up




IMHO they are important.

Something in the class coding needs to be investigated by the programmer to ensure that the weapons are behaving properly. I am sure that some unit classes with a weapon in slot 4 will fire this weapon in a 360 arc.

I find the results interesting as they do not follow what has been posted here. And no on teh people who posted saying the oposite have bothersed to comment so I just assumed it was a waste of my time posting this.

While we are discussing class characteristics, this might be the time to bring up the question of terrain travel by class. For example, halftracks can drive through hedges and bocage without penalty. This can not be right. Also some tank classes display peculiar travel characteristics. It appears that when the class list was expanded, that insufficient attention to detail was displayed.



The issues of terain and other things need a lot of real testing but I don't see much in great discussion or fact comming out. Its highy time consuming and little at the end with lots of the tests.

Besides you and one other , that was by email I have had nothing on this.. So is it a concern for people really?

(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 6
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/13/2006 6:44:32 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline
quote:

I find the results interesting as they do not follow what has been posted here. And no on teh people who posted saying the oposite have bothersed to comment so I just assumed it was a waste of my time posting this.


I'm sorry if you feel that your time was wasted on this...I often do tests and provide the results, understanding that many will have no comments about them. In this case, the issue that was raised and tested seems to indicate that some changes were made in the coding that were not reflected in other parts of the game; namely, that the 'field tip' messages in the OOB Editor that indicate what each Weapon Slot is for still read as Wp#1-Turret, Wp#2-Turret, Wp#3-Hull, Wp#4-Hull. That may not be the case anymore, and only the two programmers who we know worked on the game (Mike Woods and Tom Proudfoot) can answer if it is.



_____________________________


(in reply to omegaall)
Post #: 7
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/13/2006 7:43:35 PM   
azraelck

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Not everyone is able to understand the nuances of the programming. Just because they don't post, doesn't mean it's not appreciated and read. It's just that the number of people here who can honestly enter a discussion on the OOBs and details of how certain things work is not the vast majority.

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)
Post #: 8
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/13/2006 9:14:31 PM   
Riun T

 

Posts: 1848
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline 		I can comment to noticing that if I had a GRANT or LEE parked to see across a hill or rolling down into a reveen that the tanks 75 sometimes got way more opposite-sided visual line of fire?? sometimes up to 45 degrees deflection and I know the gun could only really turn 12 to 15 degrees??? hows this workin for ya?? RT

(in reply to azraelck)
Post #: 9
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/13/2006 9:41:20 PM   
JEB Davis


Posts: 443
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: Michigan, U.T.B.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azraelck

Not everyone is able to understand the nuances of the programming. Just because they don't post, doesn't mean it's not appreciated and read. It's just that the number of people here who can honestly enter a discussion on the OOBs and details of how certain things work is not the vast majority.


I agree.

I read almost everything here. But I (usually) don't post a reply unless I feel I've got something worthwhile to contribute, otherwise, it's just excess drivel for everyone else to wade thru to get to something important.

omegaall, Flash, Major D, don't stop testing and posting just because you get few responses. I learn a lot from you experienced guys!

P.S. You've had over 150 hits on this thread.

< Message edited by JEB Davis -- 3/13/2006 9:42:04 PM >

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(in reply to azraelck)
Post #: 10
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/14/2006 12:24:50 AM   
omegaall


Posts: 317
Joined: 7/28/2003
Status: offline 		When I finish these tests I will post the complete results. From what I can determine so far there should possibly be a reapproach to the underlying design of the operational logic - game engine wise.


More much later this is taking a while to complete ...


< Message edited by omegaall -- 3/14/2006 12:25:15 AM >

(in reply to JEB Davis)
Post #: 11
RE: weapon behaviour in the 4 slot locationS - 3/14/2006 5:59:08 AM   
sabrejack


Posts: 158
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

quote:

I find the results interesting as they do not follow what has been posted here. And no on teh people who posted saying the oposite have bothersed to comment so I just assumed it was a waste of my time posting this.


I'm sorry if you feel that your time was wasted on this...I often do tests and provide the results, understanding that many will have no comments about them. In this case, the issue that was raised and tested seems to indicate that some changes were made in the coding that were not reflected in other parts of the game; namely, that the 'field tip' messages in the OOB Editor that indicate what each Weapon Slot is for still read as Wp#1-Turret, Wp#2-Turret, Wp#3-Hull, Wp#4-Hull. That may not be the case anymore, and only the two programmers who we know worked on the game (Mike Woods and Tom Proudfoot) can answer if it is.






The testing is very valuable. For example, I had no idea about the various 'tank facing angles' and the effects that had on richochets etc. I just assumed that the 'Claymore Princible' (front towards enemy) was gospel.



(in reply to FlashfyreSP)
Post #: 12
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