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Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/3/2006 11:07:47 AM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

Okay, I've had enough of hearing how uber-powered the Japanese are and how badly modelled the game is. I am looking for a vocal someone to play a PBEM, Scenario 15. The twist is this: you have to be Japan, I play Allies.

I intend to be more aggressive than the typical "I can't do a thing but wipe my arse til January '43" Allied player. I want to see for myself how bad it is for the Allied player, and I want someone that strongly believes WitP is biased towards the Japanese side to play against. If you are one of those guys: put up, or shut up.

House rules:
Scenario 15.
Suprise on.
Historical 1st turn on/off as you choose. If off, I can give orders in China, and to any existing task force, but will not interfere with standard turn 1 events (Wake/PH/etc.).
Allied DC on.
Sub Ops, up to you.
PDU on or off. If on, Allied 2E LBA will stay 2E unless the airgroup or plane is coded to upgrade.
Reinforcements up to you.

Oh, and you must do an AAR.

< Message edited by Oznoyng -- 3/3/2006 11:09:55 AM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/3/2006 4:46:29 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

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Post #: 2

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/3/2006 10:53:09 PM

Halsey

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline

In reality, you are really looking for a super Japanese Fanboy.
One who knows how to exploit all the loopholes in this games design and mechanics.

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Post #: 3

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/3/2006 11:03:03 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

so i guess that means no?

Why i'm not suprised?

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Post #: 4

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/3/2006 11:39:09 PM

Przemcio231

Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline

well i play agressivly

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Post #: 5

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/3/2006 11:48:51 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

In reality, you are really looking for a super Japanese Fanboy.
One who knows how to exploit all the loopholes in this games design and mechanics.

If you can complain about it, you know it is possible and can figure out how to do it. If you can't, report to the grocery store and see if someone will buy you, cuz you're a vegetable.

I am looking to put the shoes on someone's feet and let them walk a bit. I think Allied players give too much credit to Japan, in part because the Allied player's safest move in game terms is to sit back and wait til overwhelming advantages arrive, then kick butt. Too many take that as an expression of Japan being omnipotent. I want one of those Allied fan boys to work within the limitations Japan has while I prove to them that the Allies are not powerless. I may be wrong. Unfortunately, no AFB has demonstrated the cajones to step up and take the challenge.

Note to those that sent PM's: I am looking for someone "vocal" in their fanboyism, not just a Japanese opponent. If no one takes up the challenge, I will probably take one of you up on the offer of a game, but my time is limited and I really want to see if one of the big fanboys has the balls to back it up. What's a fanboy? Read you last 20 posts. If no post is a lengthy argument against the zero bonus, bombardments, Japanese night experience levels, Wildcat versus Zero Kill ratios, the first turn movement bonus, China/India/USSR, supply, etc. then you don't qualify.

_____________________________

"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

(in reply to Halsey)

Post #: 6

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/4/2006 4:56:10 AM

rogueusmc

Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline

This should be interesting...

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Post #: 7

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/4/2006 2:17:59 PM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

This should be interesting...

To say the least...

(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 8

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/5/2006 4:31:33 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Looks like someone wants to have "multiple" Iron Bottom Sounds spread across the Pacific...

Let the carnage begin!!

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Post #: 9

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/8/2006 11:04:39 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

This should be interesting...

It would be if some Allied player with a case of the whines would step up and prepare a Japanese turn to send. As it is, it seems none of them have the cajones to do it.

_____________________________

"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 10

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/9/2006 1:18:53 AM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Come on, AFB's.....where's the show? My popcorn is getting cold!

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Post #: 11

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/10/2006 7:29:48 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

Allied Fanboy = Ball-less wonder. Funny how the silence descends when they are asked to prove how broken the game is.

_____________________________

"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 12

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/10/2006 7:36:24 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Maybe you should reduce the requirements and allow Uncertified Allied Fanboys....

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 13

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/10/2006 7:39:40 PM

Ursa MAior

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
Status: offline

Mdiehl comes to my mind. Too bad he does not own the game. YET.

BTW Halsey is probably right. You are looking for an IJN master to show the world that even against a skilled player the Allies can have achance even before 43.

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Art by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 14

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/10/2006 10:53:39 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

well, after i got tired of listening same AF stuff i challenged those whinners too... but never got the answer... so i'm not suprised at all....

Ursa, maybe i'm wrong, but Halsey would be perfect opponent for Oz... (i'm just too long here on boards)

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Post #: 15

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/10/2006 11:16:39 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

No, Oz is directing this at moi. No doubt about it. Unfortunately, none of these individuals has yet to understand the nature of my criticsms regarding supply. It is just as screwy for the Allies as it is for Japan. There are now enough examples out there, my AAR included, to sufficiently support this. I'm not going to start yet another game just to be bombarded by the same flawed arguements despite the weight of evidence provided.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 16

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/11/2006 1:30:50 AM

mdiehl

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

Mdiehl comes to my mind. Too bad he does not own the game. YET.

That's one hurdle.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 3/11/2006 1:33:13 AM >

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 17

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/11/2006 2:35:06 AM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

No, Oz is directing this at moi. No doubt about it.

You would do, so would Mdiehl, Demosthenes, and a few others. If you want to flatter yourself, yes, you were *one* of the ones to whom this was directed. Feel better now? Honestly, though, supply in the SRA is one of the lower issues on my list of "Prove it!" issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Unfortunately, none of these individuals has yet to understand the nature of my criticsms regarding supply.

Ron, I respected your opinion on subs. I agreed somewhat. I agree with you on bombardment reloads (though not upon their effect). I agree with you on supply movement (PM to BUna example), as I have been bit by it myself. I do not agree with you on supply in the SRA. I understand your arguments, I just do not believe they have merit.

You have taken the position that you were right on one thing, so you must be right on all of them. I'm sorry, but being right a few times doesn't make you god, and doesn't make you the final authority. You say "none of these individuals has yet to understand the nature of my criticsms regarding supply". I do. I just do not believe that in the end the SRA produced supply has any significant impact upon the game. I honestly feel that you have the bit in your mouth ("I was right! I was right! now listen to me on everything else!") and aren't listening to the other side. I want you to play Japan and have to contend with supply issues in the SRA. I think that when you do, you will find out that the amount of supply shipped in greatly exceeds that which is produced there. For me, it is a question of "would it add anything to the game?" I think the answer is no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
It is just as screwy for the Allies as it is for Japan. There are now enough examples out there, my AAR included, to sufficiently support this. I'm not going to start yet another game just to be bombarded by the same flawed arguements despite the weight of evidence provided.

I read your AAR into about May sometime - and I found nothing that disturbs me. I want you to play me and promise me one thing: you will record every shipment of supply into the SRA Malaya to PI to Amboina. I had to ship hundreds of thousands of supply into the area when I took it - and I really want to see you take it and bring it to full production without doing the same.

_____________________________

"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 18

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/11/2006 3:08:31 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

No, Oz is directing this at moi. No doubt about it.

You would do, so would Mdiehl, Demosthenes, and a few others. If you want to flatter yourself, yes, you were *one* of the ones to whom this was directed. Feel better now? Honestly, though, supply in the SRA is one of the lower issues on my list of "Prove it!" issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Unfortunately, none of these individuals has yet to understand the nature of my criticsms regarding supply.

Ron, I respected your opinion on subs. I agreed somewhat. I agree with you on bombardment reloads (though not upon their effect). I agree with you on supply movement (PM to BUna example), as I have been bit by it myself. I do not agree with you on supply in the SRA. I understand your arguments, I just do not believe they have merit.

You have taken the position that you were right on one thing, so you must be right on all of them. I'm sorry, but being right a few times doesn't make you god, and doesn't make you the final authority. You say "none of these individuals has yet to understand the nature of my criticsms regarding supply". I do. I just do not believe that in the end the SRA produced supply has any significant impact upon the game. I honestly feel that you have the bit in your mouth ("I was right! I was right! now listen to me on everything else!") and aren't listening to the other side. I want you to play Japan and have to contend with supply issues in the SRA. I think that when you do, you will find out that the amount of supply shipped in greatly exceeds that which is produced there. For me, it is a question of "would it add anything to the game?" I think the answer is no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
It is just as screwy for the Allies as it is for Japan. There are now enough examples out there, my AAR included, to sufficiently support this. I'm not going to start yet another game just to be bombarded by the same flawed arguements despite the weight of evidence provided.

I read your AAR into about May sometime - and I found nothing that disturbs me. I want you to play me and promise me one thing: you will record every shipment of supply into the SRA Malaya to PI to Amboina. I had to ship hundreds of thousands of supply into the area when I took it - and I really want to see you take it and bring it to full production without doing the same.

quote:

You would do, so would Mdiehl, Demosthenes, and a few others. If you want to flatter yourself, yes, you were *one* of the ones to whom this was directed. Feel better now?

Hey Oz.

I knew it was directed at me based on the earlier "Oh yeah" style thread where yourself and the same crew Nik, paul, Oleg etc kept taunting myself, Tristan and anybody else who may have had anything negative to say about the game. Did not take Magnum to figure it out.

quote:

You have taken the position that you were right on one thing, so you must be right on all of them. I'm sorry, but being right a few times doesn't make you god, and doesn't make you the final authority. You say "none of these individuals has yet to understand the nature of my criticsms regarding supply". I do. I just do not believe that in the end the SRA produced supply has any significant impact upon the game. I honestly feel that you have the bit in your mouth ("I was right! I was right! now listen to me on everything else!") and aren't listening to the other side.

Yeah, I suppose I have been batting a thousand!

When your hot your hot!

Does not mean I'm running around with a bone in my teeth, however.

quote:

I read your AAR into about May sometime - and I found nothing that disturbs me.

Maintaining Singapore and Manila and with supply exclusively from Borneo and Sumatra, and building up massive a mountains of supply in Java from the same non manufacturing centres, which instantly pop into anything cadres or air groups may need is OK? Guess I'm wrong and we don't need shipping for anything but invasions.

quote:

I want you to play me and promise me one thing: you will record every shipment of supply into the SRA Malaya to PI to Amboina.

Why would another game as Japan prove that the supply model is fine when I already stated in my AAR repeatedly that NO SUPPLY FROM ANYWHERE BUT SUMATRA, CELEBES AND BORNEO was used to maintain the beseiged LCUs at Manila and Singapore and turn Java into a supply Wall Mart during the first six months? That should be good enough.

< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 3/11/2006 3:15:15 AM >

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 19

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/11/2006 4:22:00 AM

wylfsun

Posts: 15
Joined: 7/13/2001
From: clarksburg, wv
Status: offline

i would like to play the japs, however im not afanboy, as i can win with ether side. and think the historical balance close to right. but before the bonus zero they were pretty fearsome.

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Post #: 20

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/11/2006 11:04:18 AM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

sorry for hijacking thread....

Ron, suppose you are right about supply (NOTE: i'm not agree with you at this point, i do not found too much supply in the game)....

If we agree that too much supply is dogma, what do you think :does it really have great impact on the game?

What, Japanese will catapult suppy on Corsairs, B-17E, B-29 and destroy the whole Allied air force? (please dont answer with "two wrong can't be right"

Actually, imagined "too much supply dogma" helping to slow the pace of the game (you agree that game moving too fast, right?)

what is my point? Rather to focusing on one issue (which is more than doubtful issue) we should focus at "strategic view" (like Apollo did with his proposals).

I simply refuse new Japan-handicap "improvements"...

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Post #: 21

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/11/2006 6:37:00 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

sorry for hijacking thread....

Ron, suppose you are right about supply (NOTE: i'm not agree with you at this point, i do not found too much supply in the game)....

If we agree that too much supply is dogma, what do you think :does it really have great impact on the game?

What, Japanese will catapult suppy on Corsairs, B-17E, B-29 and destroy the whole Allied air force? (please dont answer with "two wrong can't be right"

Actually, imagined "too much supply dogma" helping to slow the pace of the game (you agree that game moving too fast, right?)

what is my point? Rather to focusing on one issue (which is more than doubtful issue) we should focus at "strategic view" (like Apollo did with his proposals).

I simply refuse new Japan-handicap "improvements"...

The problem with the Allied fanboy is that they are forever projecting 1944 capability into late 41 reality.

_____________________________

"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 22

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/14/2006 2:39:51 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

sorry for hijacking thread....

Ron, suppose you are right about supply (NOTE: i'm not agree with you at this point, i do not found too much supply in the game)....

If we agree that too much supply is dogma, what do you think :does it really have great impact on the game?

What, Japanese will catapult suppy on Corsairs, B-17E, B-29 and destroy the whole Allied air force? (please dont answer with "two wrong can't be right"

Actually, imagined "too much supply dogma" helping to slow the pace of the game (you agree that game moving too fast, right?)

what is my point? Rather to focusing on one issue (which is more than doubtful issue) we should focus at "strategic view" (like Apollo did with his proposals).

I simply refuse new Japan-handicap "improvements"...

Apollos proposals are a summation of a number of peoples suggestions, mine included.

Again, how is my supply complaint an attempt to further hamstring Japan?

It is universal. In my game, Japan was kept from taking Singapore and Manila, and still has not taken Java, thanks to the supply issue. It works both ways.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 23

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/14/2006 2:40:54 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

sorry for hijacking thread....

Ron, suppose you are right about supply (NOTE: i'm not agree with you at this point, i do not found too much supply in the game)....

If we agree that too much supply is dogma, what do you think :does it really have great impact on the game?

What, Japanese will catapult suppy on Corsairs, B-17E, B-29 and destroy the whole Allied air force? (please dont answer with "two wrong can't be right"

Actually, imagined "too much supply dogma" helping to slow the pace of the game (you agree that game moving too fast, right?)

what is my point? Rather to focusing on one issue (which is more than doubtful issue) we should focus at "strategic view" (like Apollo did with his proposals).

I simply refuse new Japan-handicap "improvements"...

The problem with the Allied fanboy is that they are forever projecting 1944 capability into late 41 reality.

Eh? Have no idea what you are trying to say here.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 24

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/14/2006 2:43:01 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Apollos proposals are a summation of a number of peoples suggestions, mine included.

Again, how is my supply complaint an attempt to further hamstring Japan? It is universal. In my game, Japan was kept from taking Singapore and Manila, and still has not taken Java, thanks to the supply issue. It works both ways.

I don't see problem with that... anyway most of Allied players complains about "game moving too fast" right from the start, saying that they are unable hold Singa and Manila until historical date.... so either you proved they are wrong with "uber-japanese" at the start either you play as Japanese and don't know how to play with them...

So really what's the problem here? I can see only that you proved Allies aren't in hopeless situation as AF claims.... oh, i'm sorry....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Eh? Have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Then don't answer to my post and maybe i start to believe that you dont have any idea what i was tried to say.

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Post #: 25

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/14/2006 3:19:20 PM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
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i feel myself not aggressive enough

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Post #: 26

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/14/2006 6:03:29 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Apollos proposals are a summation of a number of peoples suggestions, mine included.

Again, how is my supply complaint an attempt to further hamstring Japan? It is universal. In my game, Japan was kept from taking Singapore and Manila, and still has not taken Java, thanks to the supply issue. It works both ways.

I don't see problem with that... anyway most of Allied players complains about "game moving too fast" right from the start, saying that they are unable hold Singa and Manila until historical date.... so either you proved they are wrong with "uber-japanese" at the start either you play as Japanese and don't know how to play with them...

So really what's the problem here? I can see only that you proved Allies aren't in hopeless situation as AF claims.... oh, i'm sorry....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Eh? Have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Then don't answer to my post and maybe i start to believe that you dont have any idea what i was tried to say.

Pauk, I was replying to Oz.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 27

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/14/2006 10:29:48 PM

Black Mamba 1942

Posts: 510
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(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 28

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/15/2006 12:30:28 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

Cha, cha, cha!

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Post #: 29

RE: Wanted: Certified Allied Fanboy (tm) - 3/15/2006 8:16:05 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

Still no takers Oz?

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Post #: 30

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