RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ

Page: << < prev 4 5 6 [7] 8 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/11/2006 3:25:47 PM

Bobthehatchit

Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline

This is great news!

One thing i'd like changed it the size of RN carrier airgroups later in the war, it was possible to hard code the USN airgroups to change sizes and configuration during the war, it should be possible to do the same with the RN carrier, maybe tie it in with ship Upgrades?

I know its not a major thing but hell i'm British, its matter of national pride!

_____________________________

"Look at yours before laughing at mine". Garfield 1984.

Wanted: ISDII Low millage in Imperial gray.

Just my 2 pence worth.
I might not be right.
Hell I am probaby wrong.
But thats my opinion for what its worth!

(in reply to a300mech)

Post #: 181

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/11/2006 10:43:16 PM

denisonh

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

Great news!

Thanks Joe and Don for taking this task on. Good luck and look forward to the fruits of your labor.

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to Bobthehatchit)

Post #: 182

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/13/2006 6:35:03 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobthehatchit

This is great news!

One thing i'd like changed...

Yeah, I'm beating a dead horse. A real dead horse. It stinks. It's got maggots on it. Man, it's so dead, Jesus couldn't raise it. Even with a Japanese engineer vehicle he couldn't raise it.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Bobthehatchit)

Post #: 183

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/13/2006 4:03:14 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

FWIW, a DB editor isn't THAT hard. It's just a GUI to edit fields in the database. Considering all the other complexities of WitP, it's development time is but a crumb of the whole cake.

It is also a bit presumptuous to think that future patches of WitP or WitP II (whatever), will completely fix issues (and no future ones created). Folks will want to maintain games in progress, that have been upgraded thru various versions.

What folks would also want tho, is a "game already in progess" editor. Again, it's a matter of making a GUI, so you could edit the current settings of the game file.

Natureally, the AI doesn't care if you edit the DB. No security required.

My suggestion on how to accomodate PBEM security would be to have each player have their own password to the DB, and you could only edit (and see) your OWN units. You actually coun't see or touch your opponents units. In order to actually edit the DB for YOUR units, you'd have to put in your OPPONENT'S password. Password could be reset as often as necessary (option to change DB password when working on turn). You could edit/add/delete unit(s) with this function.

This means -

a. A player can't edit anything, without his opponent knowing that -something- got edited (because he needs the password from the opponent).
b. A player can only edit his own stuff (with permission).
c. A player would have a free-hand to make fixes - maybe a teleport or disappeared unit or a jump into mountains, whatever.
d. Would certainly require trust on behalf of both PBEM players. But the whole point is to try and salvage a critical problem. If somebody chooses to take the oppontunity to bork the game, then just dump the game.
e. A player could reset access to the DB during his next turn (for additional security).

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 3/13/2006 4:06:14 PM >

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 184

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/13/2006 4:32:26 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

Another possibility would be an editor that took both passwords and was intended to be used by a third party. That way things could be fixed without either player actually having access to the data.

_____________________________

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 185

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/13/2006 4:50:29 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

3rd party - Yeah, the only problem is finding folks who will actually do this. There -ARE- folks who understand the editor (not that hard), and would be glad to fix other people's games. But my concern would be that those people who volunteered would get innundated with requests (altho hopefully not). A 3rd party option would be one thing, but I would shy away from REQUIRING it being a 3rd party edit. Nobody wants to wait around for a week or two, to have your game fixed. If players agree that it's important enough to be fixed, they should agree to a degree of trust.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 186

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/14/2006 1:22:06 AM

Curty

Posts: 269
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline

MAINTAINING A GAME IN PROGRESS IS A MUST....I'VE BEEN PLAYING THE FULL CAMPAIGN SINCE EARLY NOVEMBER '05 ITS NOW MARCH '06!!!! THATS A LOT OF HOURS........AS FOR THE DISAPPEARING UNITS BUG...

TO THE NEW GUYS IF THEY FIX IT!!!!!!

REGARDS - CURTY

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 187

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/14/2006 8:31:47 PM

Bobthehatchit

Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobthehatchit

This is great news!

One thing i'd like changed...

Yeah, I'm beating a dead horse. A real dead horse. It stinks. It's got maggots on it. Man, it's so dead, Jesus couldn't raise it. Even with a Japanese engineer vehicle he couldn't raise it.

Try a difibrulator....

Or maybe cloning....

Its all in the details.

_____________________________

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 188

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/15/2006 7:12:17 PM

steveh11Matrix

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

FWIW, a DB editor isn't THAT hard. It's just a GUI to edit fields in the database. Considering all the other complexities of WitP, it's development time is but a crumb of the whole cake.

It is also a bit presumptuous to think that future patches of WitP or WitP II (whatever), will completely fix issues (and no future ones created). Folks will want to maintain games in progress, that have been upgraded thru various versions.

What folks would also want tho, is a "game already in progess" editor. Again, it's a matter of making a GUI, so you could edit the current settings of the game file.

Natureally, the AI doesn't care if you edit the DB. No security required.

My suggestion on how to accomodate PBEM security would be to have each player have their own password to the DB, and you could only edit (and see) your OWN units. You actually coun't see or touch your opponents units. In order to actually edit the DB for YOUR units, you'd have to put in your OPPONENT'S password. Password could be reset as often as necessary (option to change DB password when working on turn). You could edit/add/delete unit(s) with this function.

This means -

a. A player can't edit anything, without his opponent knowing that -something- got edited (because he needs the password from the opponent).
b. A player can only edit his own stuff (with permission).
c. A player would have a free-hand to make fixes - maybe a teleport or disappeared unit or a jump into mountains, whatever.
d. Would certainly require trust on behalf of both PBEM players. But the whole point is to try and salvage a critical problem. If somebody chooses to take the oppontunity to bork the game, then just dump the game.
e. A player could reset access to the DB during his next turn (for additional security).

-F-

All excellent suggestions. I still feel that any PBEM game between players I'd want to play against needs no such security at all, but for those who want such a crutch

, this maps a decent way forward.

Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 189

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/16/2006 10:44:37 PM

Damien Thorn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

May I ask one thing. If/when you ever get around to playing with WITP II, will you consider making it a PBEM game first and formost. PLEASE! Almost all the "problems" in the current game seem to trace back to the need to make it playable against the computer. I know this is popular with many players, but it seems to have made far to many of the problems unsolvable..., as well as creating such unworkable or totally screwed up sub-systems like the uncontrollable "overland supply movement" system or the "automatic convoy (destruction) system". Please make a game that works..., then if you must, put an AI on some of the scenarios where the scope and the demands on the AI can be limited.

I had to respond to this as soon as I'd read it. I'll go back and continue reading the rest of the thread later.

Are you kidding? A mega-moster game that takes years to play PBEM and you want to drop the AI and make in ONLY PBEM (except for some scenarios you said). You really have got to be kidding. Among all of my friends I don't know anyone who made it more than 6 game-months playing PBEM.

How about suggesting they make the AI BETTER and not eliminate it. I don't think I've ever heard of a wargame released without an AI.

Damien Thorn

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 190

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/16/2006 10:57:03 PM

Damien Thorn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

This being said, the idea would be to have the "AI" scriptable, so that it can be changed and enhanced by developers and modders alike.

I hope WitP 2 will come with an API and allow modders to make DLL's that they can link in to the game to add or change features. the "Starfleet Command" series did this and I had great fun doing programming with that. This is assuming you are going to write WiTP2 in C++.

Also, I'd like to have a scripting ability using Python to create events in the game and to customize the interface. Civilization 4 currently has this and the community has produced some wonderful mods that are really amazing.

Those two games should be examples of the level of customization we shoot for in WiTP2.

Damien Thorn.

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 191

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/16/2006 11:47:32 PM

sprior

Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline

Welcome abourd guys.

In best Leslie Nielsen voice: I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all
counting on you.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)

Post #: 192

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/17/2006 12:12:05 AM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Eight times in a row...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to sprior)

Post #: 193

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/18/2006 6:20:27 AM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline

OMG, is it Patched yet?

Note to Joe an Don: Inflate your time estimates by a factor of 4, then get it done in half the time.

Is there a timeline yet?

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 194

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/20/2006 12:05:40 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

My, God. Patch 1.8 first.

I have issues with WitP too, but can we at least put first things first, and not act worse than my 7 year old?

Yes, give me the game that at least does not self-destruct at random intervals, and fix the databse because this if where most of the problems seem to exist.

_____________________________

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)

Post #: 195

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/20/2006 12:36:46 AM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

Yes, give me the game that at least does not self-destruct at random intervals, and fix the databse because this if where most of the problems seem to exist.

Everybody up to now has been posting about wanting things which are basically just "bells and whistles" and are overlooking the fundamental fact that the "database" for WITP is seriously flawed. Without addressing the basic issue of the "database" all that WITP II will be is a continuation of adding bells and whistles on top of a flawed database - which is just what is going on with the current WITP. The same bugs which are plaguing WITP will continue to plague WITP and exist and plague WITP II.

Properly re-design (or, in my opinion, design in the first place) a proper database and so many bugs could be eliminated and much more could be possible.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 196

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/20/2006 5:33:57 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fremen

WITP II ????
Who must be killed to get it???
CHEERS!!

Hey..do you guys need any help? I know Atari Basic.

(in reply to kokubokan25)

Post #: 197

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/22/2006 3:23:26 AM

2Stepper

Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline

And the forecast is????

Fair sailing lads... With the odd typhoon or two mixed in of course. LOL! Congrats to you both Joe and Don.

_____________________________

"Send in the Infantry. Tanks cost money... the dead cost nothing..." :)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 198

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/24/2006 12:40:17 AM

Damien Thorn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Hey..do you guys need any help? I know Atari Basic.

Cool, another Atari user. Atari rules! Always has, always will.

I remember the first thing I ever typed on a computer. I typed my name in to the Atari and hit return. It said, "Syntax Error". I wasn't sure what it meant but I was pretty sure I had just been insulted.

Damien Thorn

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 199

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/24/2006 2:35:18 AM

Rysyonok

Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn
I remember the first thing I ever typed on a computer. I typed my name in to the Atari and hit return. It said, "Syntax Error". I wasn't sure what it meant but I was pretty sure I had just been insulted.
Damien Thorn

Oh this is hilarious =) An instant classic =)

(in reply to Damien Thorn)

Post #: 200

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/29/2006 6:22:13 PM

Berkut

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline

So, is there something actually going on?

Is there going to be a patch anytime soon?

(in reply to Bobthehatchit)

Post #: 201

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/29/2006 7:31:45 PM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

Yes, give me the game that at least does not self-destruct at random intervals, and fix the databse because this if where most of the problems seem to exist.

Everybody up to now has been posting about wanting things which are basically just "bells and whistles" and are overlooking the fundamental fact that the "database" for WITP is seriously flawed. Without addressing the basic issue of the "database" all that WITP II will be is a continuation of adding bells and whistles on top of a flawed database - which is just what is going on with the current WITP. The same bugs which are plaguing WITP will continue to plague WITP and exist and plague WITP II.

Properly re-design (or, in my opinion, design in the first place) a proper database and so many bugs could be eliminated and much more could be possible.

I'm with Derrick here, I doubt the new team will be wading into the database mess..., but anything they can do to make it easier for someone else to "clean out the Augean Stables" as they now exist would deserve out gratitude.

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 202

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 3/30/2006 12:03:48 AM

The Gnome

Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

If anyone really wants to see a dead horse beaten, listen to me ask for AI improvements!

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 203

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 4/1/2006 8:11:40 AM

Cmdrcain

Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
First, starting with the idea that the game must be open to modding or contain an editor is a bad, bad decision. Don't you people understand what that does to the mechanics and data of the game from the very outset? At this point, the integrity of the design goes out the window. You've got to do great damage to simple, straightforward code in order to leave these open strands at the far end of the game engine. If editor and modding features can be added, fine, but let's have a solidly designed game first.

Don't get what your so hot over, as long as the basic, unmodded game works, allowing modding/editing shouldn't matter, if editing it changes it in a way that then the AI doesn't work as well, thats not going affect the fact the basic unchanged game works..

Even if accept your arguement, there STILL should be an editor just so one could
if wish change data like swap out some BB's for more Yamato class on assumption the builting started earlier and more were built..

Editing CV stats on premis again that things improved faster...

Simply editing in a sense shouldn't matter if the AI still can use the edited units proper.

_____________________________

Noise? What Noise? It's sooooo quiet and Peaceful!

Battlestar Pegasus

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 204

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 4/4/2006 8:58:42 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

This being said, the idea would be to have the "AI" scriptable, so that it can be changed and enhanced by developers and modders alike.

I hope WitP 2 will come with an API and allow modders to make DLL's that they can link in to the game to add or change features. the "Starfleet Command" series did this and I had great fun doing programming with that. This is assuming you are going to write WiTP2 in C++.

Also, I'd like to have a scripting ability using Python to create events in the game and to customize the interface. Civilization 4 currently has this and the community has produced some wonderful mods that are really amazing.

Those two games should be examples of the level of customization we shoot for in WiTP2.

Damien Thorn.

Heck, just a programmable events engine similiar to the one in TOAW. Most players do not have, nor care to learn, exotic programming languages. The KISS principle should be apllied in large amounts. What is also needed is a a database that is independent of devices/units/etc. being in the correct spot.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)

Post #: 205

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 4/4/2006 12:51:45 PM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
Don't get what your so hot over, as long as the basic, unmodded game works, allowing modding/editing shouldn't matter, if editing it changes it in a way that then the AI doesn't work as well, thats not going affect the fact the basic unchanged game works..

huh?

quote:

Even if accept your arguement, there STILL should be an editor just so one could
if wish change data like swap out some BB's for more Yamato class on assumption the builting started earlier and more were built..

Editing CV stats on premis again that things improved faster...

How about playing the game you bought instead of the one you made up in your head?

quote:

Simply editing in a sense shouldn't matter if the AI still can use the edited units proper.

Thanks for listening.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Cmdrcain)

Post #: 206

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 4/11/2006 5:26:57 PM

Rexor

Posts: 295
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: The Oort Cloud
Status: offline

AI improvements would be wonderful. There seems to be a defeatist attitude toward the AI, as if the very notion of a competent AI is preposterous. Is it that remote? Has this and every other unusually deep wargame been relegated permanently to multiplayer?

(in reply to The Gnome)

Post #: 207

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 4/11/2006 5:57:22 PM

grumbler

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Falls Church VA USA
Status: offline

I think, in a way, pasternakski's two arguments are the same argument.

The reason why a competant AI is so hard for this game is that the player role is not defined for the game, and so the AI role is not defined either. If, as pasternakski says, the designer starts with an idea of who the player is (and limits decision-making to the decisions appropriate the player's role) then it is much more likely that an effective AI (which only has to deal with those decisions and no others) could be created.

There are always limits to the AI, but the main limit is imposed by the complexity of the task that you are asking the AI to accomplish, because the more complex the task, the less options/variability/optimization the AI will have for handling them.

Having chrome in the game is not a bad thing, so long as it does not impact on the game play and the AI. Things like CO assignments, crew experience, support squad requirement calculations, and the like seem to me to be clogging up the game and degrading the ability of the AI to be programmed to do the stuff we would like it to do.

With only X manhours available for AI programming, what should be the focus of the AI? That should determine what the role of the AI (and thus the player) should be.

< Message edited by grumbler -- 4/11/2006 5:58:28 PM >

(in reply to Rexor)

Post #: 208

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 4/12/2006 6:00:39 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Great news! Good luck, guys!

Edit: one or two comments on AI. Is it me, or is computer-game AI improving? I have yet to beat "Galactic Civlizations II" at the "Normal" difficulty level, and while it's no War in the Pacific, it's far more involved than chess. Likewise, "Birth of America" has a half-decent AI; at least, it has kicked my sorry butt more than once. Is there some new AI learning emerging from university computer science departments these days?

< Message edited by Grotius -- 4/12/2006 6:07:15 AM >

(in reply to grumbler)

Post #: 209

RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ - 4/12/2006 5:17:25 PM

Damien Thorn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

This being said, the idea would be to have the "AI" scriptable, so that it can be changed and enhanced by developers and modders alike.

I hope WitP 2 will come with an API and allow modders to make DLL's that they can link in to the game to add or change features. the "Starfleet Command" series did this and I had great fun doing programming with that. This is assuming you are going to write WiTP2 in C++.

Also, I'd like to have a scripting ability using Python to create events in the game and to customize the interface. Civilization 4 currently has this and the community has produced some wonderful mods that are really amazing.

Those two games should be examples of the level of customization we shoot for in WiTP2.

Damien Thorn.

Heck, just a programmable events engine similiar to the one in TOAW. Most players do not have, nor care to learn, exotic programming languages. The KISS principle should be apllied in large amounts. What is also needed is a a database that is independent of devices/units/etc. being in the correct spot.

Didn't play TOAW so I can't comment on it but if you see the amazing things people are doing over at the Civ 4 forums you'd probably demand that same kind of flexability in WitP 2. In fact, if we had that kind of flexability WitP 2 would probably become an entire platform for designing naval war games. You could mod in everything for 1890's coal-era ships to modern navies. It's a dream right now but I know it can be a reality with the dedicated people in this community.... if the developers give us the tools to make it possible. Python! Python! Python!

Damien Thorn

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 210

Page: << < prev 4 5 6 [7] 8 next > >>

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: New Development for War In The Pacific -- MUST READ