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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Thinking of buying but.....

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Thinking of buying but..... - 6/29/2006 8:01:58 PM

Freddy Fudpucker

Posts: 235
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I own TOAWII Elite Edition which has only about a dozen modern(ish) scenerios. I have always been very frustrated with this game, I never really understood how it works. The manual and the in-game help are awful and don't help me get to grips with the game one bit.

The only things I've learned are:

1. Never use air power -it's useless. If you send your bombers out you'll be lucky if any come back and they'll hit nothing.
2. I always lose horribly and suffer massive casualties. No amount of experimenting has ever seen me emulate the success of the AI's attacking play.

So, will TOAWIII be different? Is under whelming airpower and over whelming AA fixed? Is there a pdf manual that actually explains how to play? I know I sound very negative but I very much would like to play a game of the magnitude that TOAW aims to deliver, unfortunately my experience of the game play of TOAWII is not a positive one. I'm kind of hoping someone will reply and say something like: TOAWII was a huge mistake, everything is fixed now!

_____________________________

Gentlemen, we're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun'. -Capt. E. Blackadder.

Post #: 1

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/29/2006 8:33:24 PM

Industrial

Posts: 143
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

1) Air-Power: The effectiveness of airpower largely depends upon the scenario designer, he has a lot of variables at his disposal to tweak the air-power to his liking. (precision guided weapon modifyer, air shock, ... )

2) In former TOAW incarnation AA was basically useless for air-defence because of a bug in the game engine, that has been corrected in TOAW III, even though the programmer are thinking about toning it down a bit again, as AA is too powerful at the moment.
Than again, if you lose a lot of air wings that might also be scenario dependent, for example by air shock, bad design decision, because a bug in TOAW is that mixing two types of planes in one unit can have devastating results. If long range bombers are mixed with short range fighter, than these fighters will operate at 1% efficiency when engaged beyond their range. So if this bomber wing attacks a distant target and is intercepted by enemy fighter, the fighter planes in the bomber wing will probably all be shot down with ease. Its not pretty, but can also be prevented by the scenario designer, by simply putting both plane types in a seperate air wing,.

_____________________________

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

Henry Alfred Kissinger

<--- aka: Kraut

(in reply to Freddy Fudpucker)

Post #: 2

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/29/2006 11:45:17 PM

PDiFolco

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

See the "Why is bombardment so weak" thread : airpower is still badly modelled and underpowered.
As for the new manual I don't find it very much different from the former ones (I have original TOAW1 & 2), but I found those pretty good already. I think (hope?) your problems are more with the game complex engine than with the interface and so on (that are pretty straightforward and the same than in previous edition), and I've found the tutorial scenarios and docs ("Anonymous heroics" and "Kasserine") very useful at grasping how to use correctly the units and features.

(in reply to Industrial)

Post #: 3

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/29/2006 11:55:35 PM

Freddy Fudpucker

Posts: 235
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

I've found the tutorial scenarios and docs ("Anonymous heroics" and "Kasserine") very useful at grasping how to use correctly the units and features.

A tutorial is something that is sorely missing from my version. And the manual is just far too lacking, for instance today I tried to find any mention of whether or not there are any penalties to assault if you go straight from a defensive formation but the manual hardly mentions formations. I wanted to know if I gain bonuses for assault from more than one adjacent hex, this simply isn't mentioned anywhere. Lots more stuff I wanted to look up that just isn't mentioned at all.

I just finished playing the Cuban 1962 scenerio. Under my leadership the USA just got it's arse handed back to it. A crushing defeat at the hands of the Cuban militias.

< Message edited by Freddy Fudpucker -- 6/29/2006 11:56:01 PM >

_____________________________

Gentlemen, we're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun'. -Capt. E. Blackadder.

(in reply to PDiFolco)

Post #: 4

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 12:52:51 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

I don't believe that there are any penalties for attacking from a defensive posture.

Attacking from two adjacent hexes doens't give you anything. Attacking from 2 non-adjacent hexes during a turn gives you a flanking bonus, it's very much worth having, since it exposes his 'passive' equipment. Look up flanking.

(in reply to Freddy Fudpucker)

Post #: 5

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 2:38:06 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

See the "Why is bombardment so weak" thread : airpower is still badly modelled and underpowered.

...but several people disagree.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to PDiFolco)

Post #: 6

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 2:39:07 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

I don't believe that there are any penalties for attacking from a defensive posture.

Yeah. My understanding entirely.

quote:

Attacking from two adjacent hexes doens't give you anything.

However it's worth noting that in high-density situations if you can attack from two hexes you can shove more troops into an attack than otherwise.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 7

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 3:11:43 AM

Uncle_Joe

Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

...but several people disagree.

How can you possible disagree when you havent even PLAYED the game that he is asking about?? :boggle:

In THIS version (regardless of what it was before), Airpower is weak...very weak. And dies...horribly.

Perhaps the upcoming patch will address this. But if he felt that airpower was weak in previous versions, it is certainlly much weaker in this version (whether due to that bug or not we wont know until its fixed).

_____________________________

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 8

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 3:19:00 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

How can you possible disagree when you havent even PLAYED the game that he is asking about?? :boggle:

It's basically the same game. Artillery works exactly the same way. AA strength is to be fixed immediately.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)

Post #: 9

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 3:26:30 AM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

This is simple. Buy the freaking game. It is the only game that has ever, ever, ever taken up more of my time that SPWAW. It is great fun.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 10

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 8:19:04 AM

a white rabbit

Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

This is simple. Buy the freaking game. It is the only game that has ever, ever, ever taken up more of my time that SPWAW. It is great fun.

..wot he said, then you too can enjoy getting yr arse kicked by Elmer

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..be�n'tus all..?,

(in reply to parusski)

Post #: 11

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 1:23:29 PM

Embark

Posts: 138
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

I never played TOAW in the past and decided to pick it up. I am normally a Tiller fan but figured I would try this out. I am not disappointed at all. Great game at a bigger scale than Panzer Campaigns. I still like the PzC games but this is fun too.

Hope that helps

Embark

_____________________________

The tragedy of war is that it uses man's best to do man's worst.
Henry Fosdick

(in reply to a white rabbit)

Post #: 12

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 2:25:19 PM

Freddy Fudpucker

Posts: 235
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Okay. Ive purchased the game. Took 12 minutes to DL from Digital River and ordered the hard copy to go with it. I'm off to look for any patches (I'm sure I saw one mentioned) then I'm going to fire up a tutorial. See if I can finally learn how to play this monster.

_____________________________

Gentlemen, we're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun'. -Capt. E. Blackadder.

(in reply to Embark)

Post #: 13

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 2:41:43 PM

Freddy Fudpucker

Posts: 235
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Errr, so okay. I've installed the game no problem at all, but I can't install the beta patch as it says my serial number is invalid? Either I need a different serial number for the patch alone or there is something wrong.

Anyone have any ideas?

_____________________________

Gentlemen, we're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun'. -Capt. E. Blackadder.

(in reply to Freddy Fudpucker)

Post #: 14

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 3:24:36 PM

a white rabbit

Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freddy Fudpucker

Errr, so okay. I've installed the game no problem at all, but I can't install the beta patch as it says my serial number is invalid? Either I need a different serial number for the patch alone or there is something wrong.

Anyone have any ideas?

..get the patch from the matrix club, 30014, fire up the game and go register, follow the instructions

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..be�n'tus all..?,

(in reply to Freddy Fudpucker)

Post #: 15

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 6/30/2006 4:08:39 PM

fei_hung

Posts: 21
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freddy Fudpucker

Errr, so okay. I've installed the game no problem at all, but I can't install the beta patch as it says my serial number is invalid? Either I need a different serial number for the patch alone or there is something wrong.

Anyone have any ideas?

Recheck your serial number , if still have problem , just email matrix for support

Play around with the small tutorial scenario for few times , try different tactics each time

Dont worry too much about the manual , just refer when you need to check something and if you still unable to understand what the manual try to explain , just post question here

and then start a PBEM game ........you can start a game with me at fei_hung99(at)yahoo(dot)com

Cheers

Warning - Dont start big scenario yet - or it will make you lose interest in the game ....

< Message edited by fei_hung -- 6/30/2006 4:09:20 PM >

_____________________________

My TOAW III PBEM Record

1SV , 1 DRAW ,8 On Going !!

(in reply to a white rabbit)

Post #: 16

RE: Thinking of buying but..... - 7/1/2006 7:03:39 AM

iaidoka2

Posts: 137
Joined: 2/8/2005
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freddy Fudpucker

Errr, so okay. I've installed the game no problem at all, but I can't install the beta patch as it says my serial number is invalid? Either I need a different serial number for the patch alone or there is something wrong.

Anyone have any ideas?

This has happened to me in the past with Matrix downloads. Check the version of your game when you start it and you might find the download was already patched and you do not need to reapply the patch, hence the error message.

(in reply to Freddy Fudpucker)

Post #: 17