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RE: Operation Thunderchild

 
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RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 6:31:54 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK guys I am pissed off this is chronic.

My Hellcat pool is empty after a turn that I wipe out 600 enemy aircraft. A great victory but at the cost of a months productuion of Hellcats.

This is out of order I get 144 F6F's a month - I am willing to bet PZB is producing 750 Zekes pus Oscars, Tonies, Tojos etc a month how am I supposed to compete I shoot down 4 : 1 and its not good enough not even close. I also get 144 useless night fighting hellcats a month I would kill at the moment to be able to deploy these night fighting planes but I cannot.

(anyone in a PDU game considering the Mariana my advice forget it its suicide)

The operation is off I am not going to commit 2 Corps to an invasion with no chance of success.

Unit count is now 20 on Tinian and rising I may as well forget it.

Andy

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/06/44


A HUGE success but it isnt worth 30 Hellcats.....was allied production really that chronic

Day Air attack on Pagan , at 64,62

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 35
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 11

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 86
F6F Hellcat x 125
Corsair IV x 11
SB2C Helldiver x 60
TBM Avenger x 130

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 38 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 19 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 10 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed
J2M Jack: 21 destroyed
C6N Myrt: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 29 destroyed, 2 damaged
SB2C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
101 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 76

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
28 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
12 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
5 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
5 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
6 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
5 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
6 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 20000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pagan , at 64,62

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 80

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M Jack: 2 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
C6N Myrt: 1 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 4 destroyed
Ki-46-III Dinah: 1 destroyed


Japanese ground losses:
23 casualties reported

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 90

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet

Day Air attack on TF at 57,66

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 4
SB2C Helldiver x 27
TBM Avenger x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 destroyed
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
PG Shotoku Maru, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sink another CVE

Day Air attack on TF at 57,66

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 23
SB2C Helldiver x 51
TBM Avenger x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged
SB2C Helldiver: 1 damaged
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Shimane Maru, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
6 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 57,66

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 2
TBM Avenger x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed


Japanese Ships
CVE Shimane Maru, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A crushing vicory that aint worth 40 Hellcats

Day Air attack on TF at 57,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 109
D4Y Judy x 8
A6M5c Zeke x 19
B6N Jill x 40
G4M1 Betty x 23
G4M2 Betty x 24
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 22

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 207
F4U-1D Corsair x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 109 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 8 destroyed
A6M5c Zeke: 19 destroyed
B6N Jill: 30 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 22 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 22 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 22 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 42 destroyed, 32 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Essex

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 57,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 37
G4M2 Betty x 16
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 23

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 81
F4U-1D Corsair x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 37 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 16 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 18 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 14 destroyed, 10 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Essex

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 57,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 28
A6M5c Zeke x 9
G4M2 Betty x 5
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 8

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 152
F4U-1D Corsair x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 28 destroyed
A6M5c Zeke: 9 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 5 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 57,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8
G4M2 Betty x 4
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 10

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 71
F4U-1D Corsair x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 8 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 4 destroyed, 9 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 57,63

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 9
P1Y Frances x 30

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 117
F4U-1D Corsair x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 9 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 12 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 11 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 68,68

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 12
P1Y Frances x 11
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 22

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 73
F6F Hellcat x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 7 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 11 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 15 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 8 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 871
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 6:42:57 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Once again because the allies are limited to historic production when the Japanese aren't the allies get outproduced.

I am going back to the drawing board and am throwing out 3 months of planning Tinian is off

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 872
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 6:47:33 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK lads I have calmed down a little I am not sure what to do I was bringing 7 Divisions to Marianas to ensure capture I would need 3 x as many which is just stupid.

I will not hide the fact that I am dissapointed.

And I apologise to anyone hoping for the war defining battle but IMO its just not feasible and its time to think again.

I have proven I can operate behind the Marianas perhaps its time to go deep and bypass I am going to think and plan this a little more

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 873
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 6:48:24 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		So, Andy, do you have an idea of where you might redirect this invasion/how long will it take you to re-prepare for your alternate target?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 874
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 6:58:20 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		At present to be honest I dont.

I need at least a month to get some sys damage off the fleet and restock the Hellcat pool.

I have a corps prepared for Marcus and for Wake plus in SWPAC forces starting to prep for Malaya.

As a time filler I may consider launching 1st Armies assault on Malaya earlier than planned but the Marianas are impossible. (4 units have flown in since the start of the offensive and over 9,000 men)

In 50 days I get 4 more Gps of Superforts that would allow a 2 Groups every day sustained offensive and 2 more Essex's plus the 2 Essex class in drydock will be back.

But they are useless unless I can get the Hellcats to put on them.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 875
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 7:00:59 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		I wondered if you would be able to do this Andy. I think going straight in is not the correct thing to do. without the drain of the British in India PzB is able to defend with a lot more. And that production thing hurts also, sucks that Japan can produce more than you. My orginal plan was to bypass the Marianas for a while, taking Wake, Marcus, and possibly Iwo in the North and the Palaus in the South to cut the Marianas off and provide some heavy bomber bases in range. Coupled with continued attacks into the SRA area to try and eliminate some of the oil production. I wish you well Andy, it is a tough game you are in.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 876
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 7:43:08 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Aye thanks.

Not sure what or where to go West Borneo, Malaya, Java, Mindanao are all being considered.

Whereever it is it will be an ahistoric deep strike because thats what I need to do 

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 877
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 7:56:23 PM   
Arstavidios

 

Posts: 780
Joined: 11/19/2004
Status: offline 		Take your navy and wipe him from the seas.
If you cut his oil life line his production will eventually collapse.

Can you send the superfortresses against oil in the SRA?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 878
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 8:09:51 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I can and will.

I think I have made the right decision I will probably second guess myself for a long time to come but I was losing to many irreplaceable fighters.

It may be a little chicken but my gut was telling me not to do it so I listened. (I was hungover this morning  after seeing Robert Plant and Deacon Blue play yesterday ....Plant still has great pipes !!!) I hope it watn the hangover making me pessimistic

(in reply to Arstavidios)
Post #: 879
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 8:10:23 PM   
Przemcio231


Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline 		Well in my game as japan im able to stack up 3 month supply of oil in 6 months so i think that cutting PzB oil supply will not help much as he has like a year supply or so... i don't know in what condition were SRA OIL fields and when they were captured... the only thing that can couse a Allied Victory is destroying the Aircraft Production plant's  Well Andy i understand your frustration maybe some one should talk to designers of this game to allow allied player to at least recive additional modern Aircraft instead of the old types like 144 F-6-F + F-4-F nr... this is redicoulus that Allies are outproduced

_____________________________



Pinky: Hey Brain what are we goeing to do this evening?
Brain: The Usual Pinky we will try to take over the World;)

(in reply to Arstavidios)
Post #: 880
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 8:10:35 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Paluas and Marianas are held very strongly.

I need to think

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 881
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 9:28:45 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		From these combat reports, I think you saw mostly second line fighters and bombers to lower your numbers which it did. Since in your game there is no India, I think you will need to go through Borneo and such where you can use LBA to cover your invasions and use your large CV numbers to control the air over the actual invasion.

The Marianas was outside of LBA coverage (except Superforts) and it was impossible to close down all four bases with only a short prep time to do. If you decide to continue your push through the central and/or north you will have to choose a place that does not have multiple bases within mutual support like in the Marianas.

You have control of the ocean. However, you cannot go where overwhelming LBA can by flown in to win the war of attrition in the short run.


_____________________________


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 882
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 10:12:45 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I am confident I could have gotten ashore in one piece and even held air superiority for a week I just dont think a week would be enough.

The strength of the ground forces means I needed to stay and fight to support the ground forces with CAS and I just dont feel strong enough decision made rightly or wrongly time to move on..

OK I am transferring 8th Army towards SWPAC these 7 divisions will land on various bases on Northern and Western Borneo in range of LBA.

All efforts are to be made to get Tomini up to lvl 4 ASAP to support an offensive in that direction.

B29's will move to Wasile ASAP as will P38's

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 883
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 10:23:33 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		1st stab at a new plan happy to take comments






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 884
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 10:33:26 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Do you have anything for Menando? Some fighters there to provide LRCAP help might be nice. I have no idea what is there or what you have.

Also, how about Jolo? It should be at least a size 4 airfield. (I'm not sure, there is an arrow pointing in that general direction )

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 885
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 10:48:41 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Jolo is on the list being considered all of the isolated bases look weakly held so able to be overwhelmed quickly

Menado is to strongly held.

I am sure I can hold air superioirty for 5 - 7 days so all the bases to be attacked must be weakly held.

There are so many in that area capable of being taken that he cannot protect them all.

I have changed the prep of all troops in the convoy 8th Army will assault in this general operational area.

(I am considering landing on Mindanao as well but that may be to much)

I need to be aware that I may be activating Kamis here so I need to be carefull

OK a tentative force allocation is emerging

1st Aus Army (ABDA and 1st Aus Corps) - Malaya
8th US Army (V Amphib Corps and 3rd US Corps) - West Borneo/East PI
6th US Army (1st Amphib, US 1st Corps, US 11th Corps) - Mindanao

US 14th Corps - Finishes off Noemfoor

10th US Army  (US 9th Corps, 3 Amphib Corps, US 24 Corps, US 10th Corps) will begin prepping for Formosa

ANdy

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 886
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 11:05:14 PM   
asdicus

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 5/16/2002
From: Surrey,UK
Status: offline 		Andy

First of all I am glad you decided to abandon the attack on Tinian - without land-based fighter cover it would have been hopeless. You would have run out of navy fighters in days and with total japanese a/c production probably numbering thousands of planes per month (trained up in china) you can never win a battle of air attrition with navy planes alone.

My suggestions such as they are :

Capture the outlying islands which are not supported by other japanese bases eg wake,marcus,salawal,woleai and so forth. This will allow you to base land planes nearer the marianas and also threaten iwo jima. At the moment all he needs to really worry about is the marianas and you have seen how strong the defense is there.

Attacking into the dutch east indies is a dead end in my view - you need to move on japan to win the game. He will have enough oil stockpiled to last for months so capturing the oilfields will not help you in the short term. In 1945 the japanese get loads of troop reinforcements - if he is able to deploy them to outlying islands you will never winkle him out of those bases.

Finally I think you should be very careful about introducing house rules eg on airfield stacking brought about by 'moans' from your opponent. pzb has played an unrestricted anything goes game against you and your prior opponents - now is not the time to start bringing in houserules to restrict your play.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 887
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 11:37:14 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		To The ****wit who organises US Production
From Andy Mac CinC Pacific

Re Hellcat Production.

Dear Sir

Please take yourself to the nearest naval base and be prepared to be keelhauled, subjected to electric shock treatment. and generally get your arse kicked before being sent the front in a Buffalo.

You are building 144 day variant Hellcats that is a good thing but not good enough. But WHAT IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY ARE YOU ****ING DOING PRODUCING 144 NIGHT FIGTER VARIANTS WHEN THE FLEET NEEDS DAY FIGHTERS ARE YOU A GODDAMMED MORON.

Regards.

Editors Note

IRL the allies produced 11,000 Hellcats in 2 years providing 1200 to the RN. (11,000 - 1200 = 9800) i.e. 400+ per month NOT 144. No bloody wonder I cannot go toe to toe.

Someone fix this please or every single allied player will attack in SEAC or via SRA no one will follow history because they cannot win a battle of attrition against thousands of Japanese airframes no matter how crap the pilots.

In case you hadnt guessed I am not overly happy about this.




(in reply to asdicus)
Post #: 888
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/9/2006 11:50:12 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		F6F-3   
4,402  First production variant. 

Subvariants  included:

   - 18 conversions to F6F-3E evaluation night fighters.
    - 149 (some sources say 205) F6F-3N night fighters.
    - Unknown number of F6F-3P reconnaissance conv
   - 1 temporarily converted to XF6F-2 with turbocharged
      R-2800-21.  Some sources give 4,403 F6F-3s,
      apparently due to "double counting" this machine.

   252 fighters were provided to the British FAA as the
   Hellcat I.
  
F6F-5   

7,870  Second production variant (some sources give 7,868). 
                  Subvariants included:

    - 1,434 (some sources say 1,529) F6F-5N night fighters.
    - Several hundred F6F-5P reconnaissance conversions.
    - Several hundred F6F-5K drone conversions.
    - A number of F6F-5D drone controller conversions.
    - Two converted to XF6F-6 with R-2800-18W and  
      four-bladed propeller.

 930 of total F6F-5 production was supplied to the
    British FAA as the "Hellcat II".  Most were
    "Hellcat F.II" fighters but 70 (some sources give 80
    or 85 or 95) were F6F-5N night fighters and designated
    "Hellcat NF.II".  Some were converted to a
    reconnaissance configuration and designated "Hellcat
    PR.II" (unarmed) or "Hellcat FR.II" (armed).

Its not just off I am getting 3,500 nightfighter variants when only 1,500 were built

Sorry but this is massive. I have just called off an invasion of the Marianas because of it.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 889
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 12:11:16 AM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
(11,000 - 1200 = 9800) i.e. 400+ per month NOT 144


To be correct... 11000 - 1200 - 1500 (night) = 8300

I still see your point though.

_____________________________

Nec Temere Nec Timide
Bez strachu ale z rozwagą

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 890
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 12:28:38 AM   
duckenf

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		Then bypass them. If he's stocked them with troops, then Marcus and Wake might be more reasonable targets -- or something like Ceylon. Then you oculd pound India, Burma and malaysia in =to submission and perhaps free up the Commonwealth and Chinese forces.

Keeping forces in the central and northern pacific would be enough to make him keep the troops in the Marianas and away from other avenues of attack. Plus you can subject them to daily bombings as you said and erode their support until you are in a better position to do something (like invade Formosa or Northern Japan).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Paluas and Marianas are held very strongly.

I need to think


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 891
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 12:44:42 AM   
lyceum


Posts: 99
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		Just ensure you give no indication you have abandoned Thunderchild or that you lack Hellcat frames. Keep up carrier raids around the Marianas so that Pzb does not move land units to the PI/Borneo. Think you can catch him by surprise by quickly taking Borneo and Formosa.

(in reply to duckenf)
Post #: 892
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 2:01:50 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		To late I was so pissed off I gave the game away.

Of course he may think I am bluffing.

Centpac is out my Hellcat pool just wont sustain these attritional battles without LBA to support.

Its annoying but I will just have to adjust.


(in reply to lyceum)
Post #: 893
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 8:14:58 AM   
skrewball


Posts: 305
Joined: 12/10/2000
From: Belgium
Status: offline 		I have been a fan of both your's and PzB's AARs for a while now. And as much as I am rooting for JPN here  I am curious how your sub fleet is? At this point in the war, the US sub fleet was sinking japanese shipping at an average rate of 150,000 tons a month or 40 ships. PzB can produce so much because you haven't made any dedicated efforts to curtail his industry. Just my opinion.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 894
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 10:04:58 AM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Hi Andy,

now, after you did not invade the Marainnas, why not going back to plan a, liberating India?

Pzb for sure has pulled troops out of India to strengthen his defences on the islands. This means he is low on manpower in India. I´d estimate he has a brigade in every base plus a dicvision in Karachi, Bombay and Calcutta. Additionally he´ll have mobile reserves (2 -3 tankdivisions?).
A hard push towards Ceylon, using all your forces should do the job there. The mobile forces shouldn´t be able to reach you there fast. His planes will stay in the pacific cause he doesn´t know if this attack is real or a fake.
Try to disconnect his supply lines by dropping paras onto the railways. If I remember right, units in non city hexes are almost unpossible to destroy or drive out.

Additionally you could try to do the stuff I proposed before:
Mine his harbours, mine his sealines (especially those into the indic!) cause trouble on his convoy routes (mines, mines, mines), put your subs near his naval bases and kill his navy.
I had an idea how to secure your convoys into NG:
You do have fighter cover along the NG coast line, but your TFs are attacked a bit away from the coast. Make small minefields in the hexes along the coast. Your TFs should then use the coastal hexes to reach your bases! (strange, but without waypoints).
Try the same to force PzB´s TFs into range of your LBA. Force him to use his MSW let him burn his fuel!
Simulate high troop concentration on the pacific islands by splitted seabee units from USA.


Do you think it would be possible to raid his industry in Japan homeland with your carriers? Or to reduce his bomber fleet by putting your carriers 9 or so hexes near his bases? Fighters shouldn´t have the range to escort those bombers. He has lots of fighters, does he have lots of bombers, too? (maybe just put cap over a transport TF in range and keep your carriers save!)


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(in reply to skrewball)
Post #: 895
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 10:30:53 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		My 2 cents

Its a bit much to blame the game being stuffed here on this example of japan out producing the allies.

THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL GAME. This is a Extreme game
Hes got all of India, most of china, had uniterrupted oil and resources for all of 43, captured most stuff intact, and has not suffered heavy losses until this last month.
Of course he will have seemingly limitless planes.
hes building more oscars alone than I can for all of my planes in my game -and so he should -by winning so well he is now reaping the rewards.
Nothing wrong in that.

My second 2 cents -if hes got so many planes, what is supplying them, and if the corsairs are such killers, why are they not sailing all over the planet doing just that -killing jap planes
Consider this invasion as no more than a raid.
re supply , ditch the bombers from the CVs, load em up with corsairs, and sweep every field and the seas.
As a Japanese player this I would fear.

No way this is the games fault, PZB won a hugely strong position most japanese players wet dream about, you took up the challenge, now you have to take it on the chin, and iether be defeated, or come up with something more clever to overcome the challenge.

keep fighting, pzb is the ultimate challenge, we all recongnise this, why else so many hits on the AAR?

Just my 2 cents

(in reply to frank1970)
Post #: 896
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 12:00:49 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

At present to be honest I dont.

I need at least a month to get some sys damage off the fleet and restock the Hellcat pool.

I have a corps prepared for Marcus and for Wake plus in SWPAC forces starting to prep for Malaya.

As a time filler I may consider launching 1st Armies assault on Malaya earlier than planned but the Marianas are impossible. (4 units have flown in since the start of the offensive and over 9,000 men)

In 50 days I get 4 more Gps of Superforts that would allow a 2 Groups every day sustained offensive and 2 more Essex's plus the 2 Essex class in drydock will be back.

But they are useless unless I can get the Hellcats to put on them.


What about taking Banjarmasin? You can build a level 6 AF there, allowing you to dominate the whole area. Do you have any intelligence about PzB's garrison there? Maybe he has concentrated his assets mostly at Tarakan and Balikpapan? Possesion of Banjarmasin should allow you to subdue those bases and provide a stepping stone to Singapore (without uncovering your plans for this location).

K

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 897
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 12:14:48 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK a few points yesterday I was pissed off because I realised I could not fight an attritional battle with my fleet despite crushing KB and shooting down thousands of aircraft.

A few points I have been pretty much on continuous ops since mid 43. Kavieng, Rabaul, Lae, then back to Centpac for Kwaj and Entiwock, then Hydra up the NG Coast.

Each time I have used prepped forces and appropriate strength.

Re future ops.

Frank mines hurt me more than PZB until I am certain where I want to strike and my subs are more valuable using torps now.

PZB has been suffering stupendous losses for 6 months or more not just for the last month. My objective now is to force him to run his economy HOT and sink as many transports as possible.

My issue with this last op is all down to Hellcat production 144 is not enough especially when I get 144 night fighter varients as well. Ditch the radar I would like to use them as day fighter please. (I accept chinese training I accept the ability of the Japanese tro produce large numbers of planes I would just like the historic production of Hellcats please.)

I refuse to use Marine Corsairs on Carriers I could have completed this last operation with ease had I chosen to ignore that restriction.

Now when all is said and done I called off the operation before it got critical. I still have 60 Hellcats in pool. MY CVR's have another 150 surplus and my CV Sqns are all at full strength.

At the current burn rate thats 2 days fighting but for a different operation it should be sufficient to strike.

I am still considering targets and will be reconning all areas to try and identify my next target.

I will not be unlading the transports the whole of 8th Army is moving now towards Borneo where I will use this force to strike and sieze several bases.

After this is accomplished I will order a naval stand down for 2 months to recuperate the fleet and use LBA to inch forward with minimal transport ships.

This is far from over......

(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 898
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 12:23:54 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Just to be crystal clear I have well stocked pools od hundreds of P40's, thousands of P38's, Corsairs by the bucketload etc etc.

It is only the fragility of the Hellcat pool that worries me because its the main allied carrier fighter

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 899
RE: Operation Thunderchild - 7/10/2006 12:47:38 PM   
Bliztk


Posts: 779
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Electronic City
Status: offline 		Go back to the F4F ? 

Serioulsy, you can start using F4Us because they solved the landing problems in the USN carriers by this date. Its not a gamey thing
 

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 900
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