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FitE Axis turn 30

 
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FitE Axis turn 30 - 7/10/2006 9:23:55 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the moves for turns 29 and 30:


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Post #: 181
FitE Soviet turn 30 - 7/10/2006 9:43:21 AM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's some Soviet losses so far ( before any combat in turn 30 ):


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Post #: 182
FitE Soviet turn 30 - 7/10/2006 10:16:38 AM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The Soviet dude faces a situation north of Kiev where Axis forces have created more holes than can be plugged easily, so a fall-back to more defensible positions is needed.  The question is how far to fall back and how many units can make the move:


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Post #: 183
FitE Axis turn 31 - 7/11/2006 12:58:08 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The Soviet dude got another pair of partisans that the Axis will have to deal with near the Pripet marshes....and this pair will probably not be sanitized until after the cease fire that will start in turn 32:


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Post #: 184
FitE Axis turn 31 - 7/11/2006 1:02:49 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's some Axis losses so far ( before combat in turn 31 ) :


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Post #: 185
FitE Axis turn 31 - 7/11/2006 1:28:44 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Eleven Soviet divisions have counterattacked and pushed the 9th Panzer Division back to the river bank near Dneprodzerzhinsk:


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Post #: 186
FitE Axis turn 31 - 7/11/2006 7:28:29 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Just after the first combat round of turn 31, here's the front lines from Leningrad to Kiev as seen by the Axis:


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Post #: 187
FitE Axis turn 31 - 7/11/2006 7:42:25 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the front lines from Kiev to Sevastopol just after the first combat round in turn 31 as seen by the Axis:


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Post #: 188
FitE Soviet turn 31 - 7/11/2006 9:02:20 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's some Soviet losses so far ( before any combat in turn 31 ):


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Post #: 189
FitE Soviet turn 31 - 7/11/2006 9:43:44 PM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The 156th Panzer Rgmt was pursuing some Soviet artillery and has gotten itself ahead of the Axis front lines and is now in jepardy of being isolated during the cease fire by Soviet counterattacks:



Here's the aftermath of the attack:



< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/12/2006 1:42:42 AM >

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Post #: 190
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 1:56:42 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's some Axis losses so far ( before any combat in turn 32 ) :



Notice that the Axis is all out of Heavy Rifle Squads on hand. The offensive is over with. Now it's all defense all the way to 1945.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/12/2006 7:46:01 AM >

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Post #: 191
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 7:18:29 AM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I'm thinking that the Finnish troops ( the white units on the map ) have to stop on the Finnish side of the border between Finnland and Russia ( such border depicted in green in the picture below ).  Does anybody know for sure ?


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Post #: 192
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 7:27:22 AM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Also, I think the Finnish troops to the NorthEast of Salla need to be moved to the green line to be in accordance with the house rules reguarding Finnish troops:


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Post #: 193
RE: FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 8:08:40 AM   
glvaca

 

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Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		If the FitE/SE boardgame is anything to go by the Finish troops have no ristrictions up North. Only in the Leningrad area they cannot move to close to Leningrad city and cannot crosh the Svir river.

Best,
Glenn

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Post #: 194
RE: FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 8:55:58 AM   
LLv34_Snefens


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From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline 		The reference to the "old border" in the house rule is the pre-winterwar one. So the Finns at Salla are not violating the rule.

Up north the green line is correct.

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Post #: 195
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 9:06:14 AM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Attacks by the Axis has saved the 156th Panzer Rgmt:


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Post #: 196
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 9:08:41 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		"If the FitE/SE boardgame is anything to go by the Finish troops have no ristrictions up North. Only in the Leningrad area they cannot move to close to Leningrad city and cannot crosh the Svir river. "

"The reference to the "old border" in the house rule is the pre-winterwar one. So the Finns at Salla are not violating the rule.   Up north the green line is correct."

I thank you both for your comments.  Anybody think the Axis should switch over to a defensive mode?

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Post #: 197
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 9:20:18 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the Axis air loss report just after the first combat round:


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Post #: 198
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 9:35:54 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I'd show you guys the front lines now but not much has changed.  I open some holes in the line and the Soviet forces close them.  Well, okay here's the front lines from Leningrad to Kiev:


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Post #: 199
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 9:51:02 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		And here's the front lines from Kiev to Sevastopol, just after the first combat round as seen by the Axis:



< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/12/2006 9:52:50 AM >

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Post #: 200
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 11:08:38 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		This is the Axis air losses report just after the second combat round:


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Post #: 201
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 11:11:23 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		This is some Axis losses just after the 2nd combat round of turn 32:


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Post #: 202
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 11:15:23 AM   
larryfulkerson


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Post #: 203
fite - 7/12/2006 11:21:30 AM   
LLv34_Snefens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I've noticed that the Soviets can make up the difference in numbers of units if they hide most of their front line behind rivers that have only a few fording points.  That way they have to defend only a few places and not along the entire front line.


Playing solitaire can cause you to kid yourself into assuming too much. Why would anyone restrict themself to only attack across the bridges?



This is the situation from turn 19.
Why have the German player slugged his way through Kiev, when he could simply cross river SE of the city and surround the whole lot? Further down the river the entire stretch from Kremenchug to Dnepropetrovsk is basically undefended and the whole front could have been rolled up and Kharkov captured in a couple of weeks.
How does the military saying goes: "Reinforce succes, not failure"? There seems to have been put too much force into these attrition battles, instead of through the open spaces.

What to do now? That's hard to answer. Mud period is coming up in 1-3 turns and only Sevastopol is within reach before that. I don't know if you want to pretend the soviet player is still unaware of the danger along the Dnepr or you want to plug the hole. But if it's not adressed, I as Axis would regroup during the break and prepare for an offensive through the gap.
In either case the situation is bleak for the Axis. That's some massive losses accumulated with very little to show for, so winter will be very rough.

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Post #: 204
RE: FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 1:41:44 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34_Snefens

The reference to the "old border" in the house rule is the pre-winterwar one. So the Finns at Salla are not violating the rule.

Up north the green line is correct.

Isn't Salla up North? If so then what you are saying is that the Finnish troops at Salla are in violation of the house rule. If so, what's there use up there?

(in reply to LLv34_Snefens)
Post #: 205
RE: FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 1:45:27 PM   
glvaca

 

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I thank you both for your comments.  Anybody think the Axis should switch over to a defensive mode?
[/quote]
Quite welcome. Thank you for a great AAR.

Honestly, I think the Germans had it. The losses you sustained will never be replaced and the Russians are almost ready for the winter offensive and still almost full strength. You're in for a very long winter (as the Germans off course )

Question for you, do you feel that pushing so hard regardless of losses was worth it in terms of victory objectives captured? I.e., did the replacement objectives captured (Smolensk, Kiev, etc..) reduced the Soviet replacement rate enough to justify the cost?

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Post #: 206
FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 4:32:37 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL:  LLv34_Snefens
Playing solitaire can cause you to kid yourself into assuming too much. Why would anyone restrict themself to only attack across the bridges?
Why have the German player slugged his way through Kiev, when he could simply cross river SE of the city and surround the whole lot? Further down the river the entire stretch from Kremenchug to Dnepropetrovsk is basically undefended and the whole front could have been rolled up and Kharkov captured in a couple of weeks.
How does the military saying goes: "Reinforce succes, not failure"? There seems to have been put too much force into these attrition battles, instead of through the open spaces.


See, this is the reason I lose at FitE.  You guys can see things that I'm blind to.  You're absolutely correct and I'm almost ashamed to say I never even considered it ( crossing somewhere except at the bridges )....I guess I'm still a newbie.


quote:

ORIGINAL:  glvaca
Honestly, I think the Germans [have] had it. The losses you sustained will never be replaced and the Russians are almost ready for the winter offensive and still almost full strength. You're in for a very long winter

Question for you, do you feel that pushing so hard regardless of losses was worth it in terms of victory objectives captured? I.e., did the replacement objectives captured (Smolensk, Kiev, etc..) reduced the Soviet replacement rate enough to justify the cost?


My intent, as the Axis, was to capture the victory objectives, Smolensk, Kiev, Odessa, Sevastopol, etc. , specifically in order to reduce the number of Soviet Rifle Squads I would have to face through the entire war ( there are still some 370 turns left )  and I felt if I could reduce the amount of squads he, the Soviet dude, got by even 50 per turn that's 50 times 370 = um.....a large number of squads , not quite 19,000 I'm guessing.

I think also that:

(1) if I had pushed harder, moved faster, during the early turns perhaps I could have captured more soviet units and wouldn't have had to face them later on.

(2) I think maybe attempting to take Leningrad only from the SouthWest may have been a mistake....it may have been easier to take if I forced him to defend both rivers ( SE and SW ).

(3) and as Snefens pointed out....there are tactical / strategic lessons that I still need to learn ( make your own bridges if need be, attack where he ain't, etc. )

So I'm thinking it's impossible for the Axis to win at this juncture and I'm thinking the Axis dude should concede defeat.

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Post #: 207
RE: FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 6:22:02 PM   
LLv34_Snefens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Isn't Salla up North? If so then what you are saying is that the Finnish troops at Salla are in violation of the house rule. If so, what's there use up there?



Sorry for being unclear. By "up north" I meant next to Murmansk. Salla is north but not nearly as much :) The finns can be used to capture back their old territory there. At Murmansk they can only be used to defend the border. Then again there doesn't start any Finnish units up there. Those you see are what Larry has moved up there to bolsters his defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

So I'm thinking it's impossible for the Axis to win at this juncture and I'm thinking the Axis dude should concede defeat.



Just because Moscow is out of the question, doesn't mean the game is over. If the Soviets just roll over if Moscow is captured in 1941 and the Axis does the same if it isn't, then DNO covers that time space better with much more chrome.

This is just when the scenario gets interesting IMO.
Berlin is still some 1200 km away and the sceanrio wasn't really intended for the TOAW victory system, but instead, as the briefing says somewhere, that the Germans win, if they don't loose.
You will have to whip up a mother of a defense to hold till 1945, but who knows?

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Post #: 208
RE: FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/12/2006 6:37:06 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34_Snefens


quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

Isn't Salla up North? If so then what you are saying is that the Finnish troops at Salla are in violation of the house rule. If so, what's there use up there?



Sorry for being unclear. By "up north" I meant next to Murmansk. Salla is north but not nearly as much :)

Ah, that explains the misunderstanding.


The finns can be used to capture back their old territory there. At Murmansk they can only be used to defend the border. Then again there doesn't start any Finnish units up there. Those you see are what Larry has moved up there to bolsters his defense.

I tend to lean to the baordgame on which this game is inspired.
In the South to historical line close to Leningrad.
SE Svir river.
North, no restriction.

Best,
Glenn


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Post #: 209
RE: FitE Axis turn 32 - 7/13/2006 3:06:12 AM   
kfmiller41


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From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		I was wondering the same thing about the why the vacant rivers were not being attacked, my opponent doesn't seem to have that problem  and I am trying to cover the entire Dnieper river, which is difficult but the rivers offer the best defense early on. Worst thing i fear as the siviet player is being flanked and surrounded. Once units are engaged it is hard to get them pulled back without them falling apart (I do know how to use other units to help withdraw, but you do have to have them available) and german air is killing me when I try to move to much. All in all i am enjoying the game. Hey Larry, would you be interested in doing a DNO game against me when you have time. Seems we both have the same level of experience and if i could ever figure out how to do the things with pictures that you do I could do an AAR from the soviet side.

_____________________________

You have the ability to arouse various emotions in me: please select carefully.

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