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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: A new Plan

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RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 12:08:48 AM

1275psi

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

As to the high level kami attacks --stiff bickies -now at least the japanese player can at least penetrate your UBER CAP.
In real life the CAP was consistantly pierced, 100's of ships hit.
If PZB can penetrate using this method good -now the game gets a bit more realistic, and Jap players have some reason and tactic to cling to to keep playing.

How did the allies try to stop the Kamis --finding that interception and AA did not do a good enough job --they hit em on the ground -on the airfields.
Thats what you have to do -close the fields they fly from.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1141

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 2:02:36 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

A couple of minor points with that 1275psi I have no issue with the Kamikaze threat or the fact that I may lose carriers it is as expected but I find this particular Tactic to be an exploit of the worst kind and it sticks in my craw because of that.

Ignore the fact that the only defence I will have is stronger screens for my TF's which I cannot do because I am short of CA's and CLs (I toook this game on knowing this so I cannot use this defence) and look at why he is relying on this 'tactic'.

PZB has not made a major attack on my fleet at any point after I have dispersed he has always attacked me when I have been concentrating on destroying his airforce.

Off the Marianas the whole point was to kill off his trained pilots (it worked to well and my 600 reserve Hellcats were insufficient) that was why I sent my carriers in en masse BEFORE my transports were in harms way with extra fighter loaded it was a CAP trap and IT WORKED he fell for it.

So he is now using this bullshit exploit because he wanted to hit my fleet when it was in trap mode.

As I have pointed out many times had he waited until I had my 1st wave unloading and my fleet had been forced to seperate to different hexes and tasks (GSupport requires carrier TF's to be in different hexes, Interdiction of reinforcements, guarding for KB and surface TF's, LR Capping the invasion hex and bombardment TF's etc etc) then he would had the fight he sought and my UBER CAP would not have been nearly as strong but he wasted 1,000's of trained pilots attacking an unshaken USN on the open Ocean sorry that is NOT my fault.

Answer me this how many times did Kamis penetrate a CAP when the USN was on its own and not multi tasking ?

How many carriers or ships were hit in open ocean by Kamis when not covering a landing force ?

I dont know these answers but I suspect none so PZB is using this 'tactic' because he got impatient and fell for a trap designed to cripple his AF.

Sorry I find this to be unconscionable.

Is UBER CAP to strong absoulutely is this 'tactic' the correct way to deal with it absolutely NOT.

In case there is any doubt over this I am FUMING over this issue and would have walked away from any other game over this issue but this game is to far down the line to do that but FYI it was a close run thing for me.

Oh and BTW lets not forget what is it 2 or 3 Carrier damaged/sank by Kamis already in this game ok they were CVE's but they are carriers

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/23/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 34,52

Japanese Ships
AK Teisen Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Queenfish

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 117
D4Y Judy x 27
B6N Jill x 69
B7A Grace x 35
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 36
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 72

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 87

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-84-Ia Frank bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
35 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
36 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
14 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B7A Grace bombing at 1000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B7A Grace bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Lautem , at 33,78

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 21

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Hurricane II x 7
Kittyhawk III x 6
B-24J Liberator x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 2 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 37

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 11
PB4Y Liberator x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed

Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 3
P-40N Warhawk x 3
B-24J Liberator x 9

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 30
P-40N Warhawk x 19
B-25J Mitchell x 80
PB4Y Liberator x 8

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 49

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Manokwari , at 44,75

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 26
A-20G Havoc x 61
B-25J Mitchell x 34
B-24J Liberator x 38

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 131

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
26 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
20 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
9 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81

Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 5
Spitfire VIII x 6
A-20G Havoc x 11

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81

Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 32

No Allied losses

Runway hits 43

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83

Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 54

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 55

Aircraft Attacking:
54 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 12
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 23
B-24J Liberator x 56

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported

Airbase hits 9
Runway hits 52

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
23 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
6 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
9 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 19

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 2
B-24J Liberator x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F-5C Lightning: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st USMC Arm Amphib Battalion, at 32,62

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 22

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
33 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st USMC Arm Amphib Battalion, at 32,62

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 18th/A Division, at 52,81

Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 1

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amboina , at 39,73

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 5

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 6

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 1

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 11
TBM Avenger x 17

No Allied losses

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 10000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 23451 troops, 141 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 457

Defending force 22893 troops, 47 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 503

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 32,62

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7645 troops, 0 guns, 396 vehicles, Assault Value = 231

Defending force 10379 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 209

Allied max assault: 380 - adjusted assault: 116

Japanese max defense: 140 - adjusted defense: 41

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
292 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 11

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1937 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 260

Defending force 7284 troops, 62 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 165

(in reply to 1275psi)

Post #: 1142

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 2:09:15 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

One other point if Zekes were really swanning over the heads of Hellcats and then teleporting into the sides of USN ships how long would it take the USN to lighten a sqn of Hellcats and work up a way for them to operate 2,000 feet higher.

2 days or 3 !!!!

Sorry this is just a crock full of ****

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1143

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 2:13:44 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK sorry all I was venting a little please ignore my last 2 posts as you can probably all guess I am a little vexed by this. I wont delete the posts as I dont like doing that but I will go have a few beers and calm down.

I just genuinely view this as an exploit and it genuinelly pisses me off (and this is before it has actually been used to hit anything Mount Krakatoa springs to mind for when it actually is used to hit a few carriers .....is it possible to get banned for having to many asterisks in one post ? If yes just wait till the first HL Kami hits something)

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1144

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 4:05:42 PM

Nemo121

Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
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quote:

Is UBER CAP to strong absoulutely is this 'tactic' the correct way to deal with it absolutely NOT.

Ok well I'm not trying to antagonise you more but it seems to me that if you agree UeberCAP is too strong and PzB feels forced into Kami-Zekes to avoid UeberCAP then the solution might be for both sides to give up something...

I think that it is a bit rich of you to complain about these Zekes when you are running your CAP at very high percentages ( probably 80 to 90% most of the time) and are creating the very UeberCAP to which these Kami-Zekes are a reaction. However maybe therein lies the solution? If you reduce your CAP to somewhere between 40 and 50% then more "normal attacks" would get through and, in return, PzB could give up Kami-Zekes at high altitude?

So rather than focussing on him just giving up high altitude Kamis maybe focus on WHY he is doing it in the first place and you adjust your orders to make it unnecessary... Of course it would mean giving up UeberCAP but you've just stated that is unrealistic also so maybe cure two unrealistic things with the one stone?

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1145

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 4:18:29 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

But my CAP % is at 50 - 60% most of the time !!!!! It was only when I was deliberately baiting off of Marianas that it was at 80% because my bombers were all on stand down as I was trying to bait his AF. So yes you could argue that I was exploiting UBERCAP there but it was part of a deliberate operation is that wrong when my bombers were on stand down and under orders not to launch ?

UBER CAP worked both ways would PZB have managed hangover if it wasnt for uber cap it goes all ways how would the Japanese players feel if I started using B29's on naval attack at 6,000 feet or sent 400 B29's to mine every Jap port no matter what the cap or launched a 400 B29 Night AF raid on every Jap airbase in range. You would hear the howls then because these are EXPLOITS the SAME as this KAMI Crap....

I dont know whether I am being illogical on this point and I may be but I really genuilly believe this is an exploit and it is now no. 1 on my HR list for all subsequent games.

I shouldnt talk about as I get aggravated just thinking about it

Andy

(in reply to Nemo121)

Post #: 1146

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 4:27:15 PM

Nemo121

Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
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Hmm, well unless you've banned night air raids I wouldn't view the B29 night raids as an exploit. Night-bombing is allowed in all of my games since they toned down the results so unless you've banned it I say go ahead and launch those raids. And no I don't see anything wrong with very high % CAPs when conducting a baiting operation. You won't do baiting under RHS though, in it the bombers almost always get through. I've just lost a CVE without any of my fighters even shooting down an enemy bomber.

Didn't realise you were using 50/60% CAP. Wow, you are getting uebercap even at that level? What a screwed up air model it is in stock... Maybe just discuss with PzB about reducing CAP in return for no high-level Kami-Zekes.... It is the only thing I see having any chance of getting a solution acceptable to both parties. Apart from that I'm out of ideas.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1147

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 4:30:50 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Enough of this I dont actually think this will have a huge impact I just resent it on principle but we will move on.

My troops are attacking Southern Borneo and with the fall of the 2 nd base I will be able to deploy some mediums and FB's which will be used to support 3rd Corps. The TF heading to the West Coast is passed Truk heading for refit.

the 3 Carriers currently in refit are almost ready and will move out for Pearl in a few days when Randolph arrives.

The rest of my force is assembling in Darwin to sea lift 1st Aus Army to Malaya.

I am going to wait until I have secured a few small bases on the route to Malaya to provide LBased cover for the TF before launching it so there will be an admin break while I reorganise and prepare a new plan of action.

I am also reconsidering the whole operation with the news that Singapore is only 26 shipyard I am not sure if the diversion is worth it and may go straight for Norhtern Borneo in lesser strength before pushing somewhere like Hong Kong.

Transports have been torched at Manowkri in norther NG so I suspect I may attempt to take that base as well as concentratng my AF on neutralising other Jap bases in northern NG

I will allocate one corps to assist in finishing off Noemfoor and assaulting other bases in the area

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1148

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 4:34:26 PM

Kereguelen

Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Ok well I'm not trying to antagonise you more but it seems to me that if you agree UeberCAP is too strong and PzB feels forced into Kami-Zekes to avoid UeberCAP then the solution might be for both sides to give up something...

I think that it is a bit rich of you to complain about these Zekes when you are running your CAP at very high percentages ( probably 80 to 90% most of the time) and are creating the very UeberCAP to which these Kami-Zekes are a reaction. However maybe therein lies the solution? If you reduce your CAP to somewhere between 40 and 50% then more "normal attacks" would get through and, in return, PzB could give up Kami-Zekes at high altitude?

So rather than focussing on him just giving up high altitude Kamis maybe focus on WHY he is doing it in the first place and you adjust your orders to make it unnecessary... Of course it would mean giving up UeberCAP but you've just stated that is unrealistic also so maybe cure two unrealistic things with the one stone?

But PzB always used the (early war) Japanese �ber-CAP when Wobbly was his antagonist. And it seems that Andy Mac does not even use LRCAP or a CAP of 80-90%. And just look at page 97 of his thread (did not work, but still...). But most importantly: The use of high altitude kamikazes is simply an exploit. Even when coming in at 42,000 feet (or whatever) a Kamikaze would still be subject to enemy CAP (if going into a dive from that height you could never hit a moving target).

K

(in reply to Nemo121)

Post #: 1149

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 4:42:19 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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PZB and I have discussed this at length we dont agree on this point I am not going to post e mails in here but suffice it to say I think he screwed up by not leting me get embroiled on the Marianas

1 solo carrier TF at about 60% CAP assuming 2 Essex and 2 Independence will have a CAP of about 70 - 80 Fighters and 20 - 40 Corsairs if the Essesxs have 1 or 2 of my 3 F4U1D Sqns

Having 2 of those TF's operating in conjunction will give 140 - 160 F6F's and 20 - 60 (I only have 3 Sqns of Corsairs) Corsairs on CAP

If PZB had let me land on Tinian I would have had 5 TF's on station at any one time.

I would have HAD to LRCAP the landing sights as Wildcats arent good enough and as we all know CAS works best if the carriers launching the attacks are in different hexes.

Assuming 2 TF's are on patrol for KB/ Surface intervention and would be combined in the same hex for that purpose as I am not nuts that would leave 3 TF's close to the Marianas.

Corsairs would be on low CAP as I need them for CAS.

25% of the F6F's would need to be on LRCAP for the landing fleet or 1 of the 3 TF's sent into the landing hex which is risky.

Leaving 2 TF's off shore trying to suppress AF's, provide CAS, escort LR B29 Raids and protect themselves.

I think you would have found plenty of leakers and hits on transports had that been the case.

PZB disagrees and as I dont know his deployments I cannot be sure but I really think he messed up and should have let me get committed and then crucified me

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1150

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 4:44:29 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

The game goes on believe it or not I didnt want to vent this issue on the forums so I will shut up about it for now until PZB uses it then my post will be all asterisks anyway !!!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1151

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 5:00:08 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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OK lads I am back in planning mode.

10th US Army is prepping for Tinian (3rd Amphib, 9th 10th and 24th US Corps)
1st Aus Army is prepping for Malaya (ABDA And 1st Aus Corps)
8th US Army is responsible for Borneo and Sulawesi operations (5 Amphib and 3rd US Corps)
6th US Army is taking care of Noemfoor and is basically my theatre reserve (1 Amphib, 1st, 11th and 14th US Corps) all these corps have c 2 Divs each so for a serious ambphib assault I would need to scrounge up reinforcements)

The question is what to do with the 3 uncommitted Corps from 6th US Army I am probably going to use them to clear up northern NG unless someone can come up with a better idea !!!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1152

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 5:29:19 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1153

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 6:37:47 PM

HarryM

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Joined: 7/13/2004
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Hmm, I'd say whichever one has/is the:
Biggest airfield
Least Defended
Closest to the SRA

Any bases in this area can handle B-29s?

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1154

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 7:06:38 PM

Bliztk

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From: Electronic City
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A move from Timor to Flores would ease your LOC. You only have one LOC currently, plus adding airfields to start hitting Java from two sides.

Also have you studied a diversionary attack in the northern hemisfere (Kuriles), not to gain much terrain, but to make him commit reserves here, thus easing your main thrusts

(in reply to HarryM)

Post #: 1155

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 7:40:55 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Banjamarsin can handle superforts its 3/3 at present and is reachable by land but I forced his Balikapan army to retreat that way Doh !!!! so I may be hoisted by my own petard if I decide I need that base now.

Macassar is a 4/3 base and is looking like a good bet.

If I think 3rd Corps can take Banjarmasin unsupported then it is logical that 5th Amphib Corps should take Makasser with subsidiary operations to capture the lvl 1 AF's around Sulawesi.

Basically turn the whole of Sulawesi into a giant airbase.

Menado and Morotoi have 50k men on each and are to well defended to be bothered with.

So I think 8th Army will concentrate on taking Banja by land - if it can and Makasser by sea.

Andy

(in reply to Bliztk)

Post #: 1156

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 7:45:03 PM

Andy Mac

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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Sampit is not well defended once I have Banja invested I could use 11th Airborne to sieze it it has a natural lvl 2 port and lvl 1 AF so instant CAP if I can take it.

These bases plus one or two more would give me a solid platform for striking north to Malaya.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1157

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 7:46:40 PM

Andy Mac

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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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In Northern NG Amboina and Manowkri are looking good for a 2 Divisional Assault Each and I have a corps fully prepped for Amboina so that could be launched relatively quiclkly which would broaden my airpower in the region

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1158

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 8:02:01 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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I am just not sure Malaya is worth the grief the unit count at Singapore is now 10 where it was 2 two weeks ago so he is reacting to my Borneo adventure and garrisoning the logical target.

I am just not sure where to strike.

I will consolidate my postion for a while while I await my refitted carriers and I train up some navy pilots

There are basically 7 real options for my next deep offensive after I have consolidated

1. India - probably a waste of time and resources
2. Sumatra - stops the oil at the source
3. Malaya - Still a reasonable target providing lots of good airbases and ports on PZB's LOC's
4. North Boneo/SEA - a little close to the PI for comfort.
5. PI - Extremely risky
6. Formosa or some other isolated island off the China coast - deep and very risky
7. Back to the Marianas - same risk as before but more weight in one assault force i.e. land 15 Divisons in one go take one base then move on.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1159

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 8:03:51 PM

HarryM

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Doesn't Bali have a good sized AB? Would be good support of more ops in Borneo and would protect that left flank a bit (if it is not filled to the brim with Japs of course)...

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1160

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 9:56:29 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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I will check it out and see but I suspect its heavily garrisoned worth investigating though.

(in reply to HarryM)

Post #: 1161

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 10:01:35 PM

aztez

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From: Finland
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I would recommend using LBA cover for next phases. You really need repair and replenish your naval forces.

This naturally means that no huge "leaps" are possible but what the hurry. Since I doubt you lacking any ground bombers nor fighters that would be an good strategy.

Also by looking the screenshot I think you need more bases in Timor region from which to support your future operations.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1162

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 10:19:46 PM

Andy Mac

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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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LBA is one option and I certainly want a few more bases, my fleet is in reasonable shape with the refitted ships on the way to rejoin the remaining operational ships.

I will be as strong as when I attacked the Marianas in about 20 days aqlbeit without full replenishment gps on my CVR's but I wont be refilling all of those again anyway.

The hurry is the game endss in 12 months I dont have a choice I NEED to attack if I dont the game will end with me being nowhere I need to get into his vitals and squeeze soon and I need to get bases in range of China to start interrupting this dammed training programme.

Timor is heavily guarded and behind the lines unless I want to head towards Java its a sink that would cost me to much.

I do need to pick off a few bases around northern NG and Sulawesi to strengthen my base of operations

(in reply to aztez)

Post #: 1163

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 10:20:18 PM

Jim D Burns

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From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
the solution might be for both sides to give up something...

This cracks me up.

I wonder how many Japanese players would be willing to "give up" their KB deathstar for the first two years because its CAP is impenatrable. PZB got a little of the same medicine he dealt out for over two game years and reverted to a game exploit to get around it. I'm with Andy on this one, I'd walk from any game where an opponent did this.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 8/22/2006 10:25:07 PM >

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Post #: 1164

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 10:21:09 PM

Andy Mac

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p.s. I am sitting watching In Harms Way at the moment with PT Boats about to ambush Yamato !!!!

Not seen this film beforevery exciting a war film I havent seen before !!!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1165

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 10:25:03 PM

Andy Mac

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Har now there is evidence 3 PT boats sank 1 DD and a CA for the loss of all 3 boats see its in Hollywood there is my evidence to say PT Boats are underpowered in this game....

Its a John Wayne war film so it must be true

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1166

PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 10:28:00 PM

Andy Mac

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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Oooh this is exciting an Omaha class CL (USS Swayback) and some DD's are going toe to toe with the mighty Yamato !!!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1167

RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 10:35:11 PM

Andy Mac

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I like this film

The Duke saves the day

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1168

RE: PT Boats are underpowered cause John Wayne says so - 8/22/2006 10:43:16 PM

Feinder

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I'm sorry, somebody catch me up here. What's the issue here? I hate to see one of the long-running PBEMs go south.

-F-

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(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1169

RE: A new Plan - 8/22/2006 10:56:59 PM

ChezDaJez

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Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
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quote:

There are basically 7 real options for my next deep offensive after I have consolidated

1. India - probably a waste of time and resources
2. Sumatra - stops the oil at the source
3. Malaya - Still a reasonable target providing lots of good airbases and ports on PZB's LOC's
4. North Boneo/SEA - a little close to the PI for comfort.
5. PI - Extremely risky
6. Formosa or some other isolated island off the China coast - deep and very risky
7. Back to the Marianas - same risk as before but more weight in one assault force i.e. land 15 Divisons in one go take one base then move on.

Andy,

Have you considered a landing on the west coast of Java? I would recommend a 3 part landing: a landing at Tjilitap, one at Djokjakarta and one at Malang. I suggest these for the following reasons:

1. Tjilitap has a (2)(2) port/airfield. If PzB hasn't built them up yet, you can easily build them to level 5 port and airfield. Perfect for bombing Palembang or any of the bases on the west coast of Borneo. They can even reach Singapore but without escort. This base also constitutes a major threat to Batavia.

2. Djokjakarta cuts the road between Batavia and Soerabaja effectively isolating one from the other. It also has a potential level 5 airfield but has no port. It is a relatively safe landing though if you land at the other two sites as any troop movement towards here leaves his rear open and supply could easily be cut.

3. I like Malang due to its proximity to Soerabaja. It is well suited for attriting any fighters at Soerabaja. PzB would absolutely have to react to a landing there if he wishes to hold Soerabaja. Any force that he directs against Malang weakens his defense in Soerabaja and he won't be able to draw reinforcements from the nortth with the road cut. Malang also makes a nice 2E bomber base (capable of level 4). It also has no port so landings must be done from landing craft to get them all onto the beach before PzB can move any forces.

Taking Java would make a perfect stepping stone into Malaya or to the north coast of Borneo. Its perfectly suited for armor units and landings on Java would also prevent PzB from shipping LCUs elsewhere. Supporting the landigs shouldn't be too difficult as the threat from surface forces would be nearly non-existant and I'm not sure his air forces can resist you there and near Tarakan simultaneously. The biggest drawback is that most, if not all, air support would need to come from carriers until you capture an airfield and supply could become an issue in the south due to the slowness with which it unloads at non-ports.

You don't actually need to take the entire island. Batavia and Soerabaja could be simply isolated from the rest. That would force PzB to leave his defenses if he wanted to do anything about it. Holding a parachute regiment in reserve if available at Balikpapan (or any base in transport range) would also be valuable in grabbing an uprotected base or in isolating any forces he may attempt to move.

The approach to Java could be done from Perth/Derby unobserved. If your troops are already in Darwin, loading them and movinf down the coast of Australia until out of patrol range would be an option.

As you recall, I conducted a 3-pronged landing on Java in our game. I landed at Tjilitap, Malang and Kragen (east coast). If I hadn't screwed up my supply train I think Java would have fallen much quicker than it did.

Chez

< Message edited by ChezDaJez -- 8/22/2006 10:58:22 PM >

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(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1170

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