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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

 
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 1:51:00 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Status-report on Landunits (all countries):

345 out of 999 units done (35%)

Allies:
USA 19/99 Adam
Russia 122/146 Adam
Siberian Russia 4/4 Adam DONE!
UK 6/57 Jaguar and Max STILL ACTIVE?
France 7/68
Communist China 3/18 (Wosung) STILL ACTIVE?
Nat. China 4/38 (Wosung) STILL ACTIVE?

Axis:
Germany 70/128 (Capitan)
SS-Germany 0/19 (Capitan)
Japan 6/76 (Hazpak) STILL ACTIVE?
Italy 15/61 (Jimm)

Commonwealth countries:
Australia 8/8 (Michaelbaldur) DONE!
New Zeeland 3/3 (Michaelbaldur) DONE!
Canada 1/10 (Michaelbaldur)
India 1/13 (Michaelbaldur)
South Africa 5/5 (Michaelbaldur) DONE!
Burma 0/2
Thailand 0/1
Palestine 0/1
Egypt 0/2
Sudan 0/1
Kenya 0/1
Uganda 0/1
Tanganyika 0/1
Northern Rhodesia 0/1
Southern Rhodesia 0/1
Nigeria 0/2
Sierra Leone 0/1
Indo-China 0/1
Aden 0/1
British Somalialand 0/1
Northern Ireland 0/1

Axis minors:
Finland 8/8 (Adam) DONE!
Hungary 0/6 (Mziln) DONE!
Rumania 10/10 Adam DONE!
Bulgaria 0/3
Croatia 1/1 (Capitan) DONE!
Libya 0/3 (Jimm)
Eritrea 0/1 (Jimm)
Italian Somalialand 0/2 (Jimm)
Ukraine 0/8
AOI 1/1 (Mziln) DONE!


Latin America neutrals:
Mexico 0/6
Panama 0/2
Colombia 0/1
Venezuela 0/1
Ecuador 1/1 (Capitan) DONE!
Peru 1/1 (Capitan) DONE!
Brasil 0/5
Bolivia 0/1
Paraguay 0/1
Uruguay 0/1
Chile 0/2
Argentina 0/3

Japanese colonies:
Korea 0/2
Manchuko 0/4
Formosa 0/1

Russian vassals:
Mongolia 1/1 Adam DONE!

French Colonies:
Syria 0/2
Tunisia 0/1
Algeria 0/2
Morroco 0/1
French Somalia 0/1
Madagascar 0/1
Gabon 0/1
Cameroon 0/1
Ivory Coast 0/1
French Sudan 0/1
Senegal 0/1
Middle Congo 0/1
Niger 0/1

Neutrals:
Iran 0/2
Afghanistan 0/2
Ireland 0/2
Netherlands 0/2 (Hazpak) STILL ACTIVE?
Belgium 0/4 (BredsjöMagnus)
Portugal 0/2
Denmark 1/1 (Michaelbaldur) DONE!
Norway 3/3 (Michaelbaldur) DONE!
Sweden 10/13 (Toed) STILL ACTIVE?
Switzerland 6/6 (Adam) DONE!
Poland 13/14 (Michaelbaldur)
Turkey 1/13
Iraq 2/2 Capitan) DONE!
Saudi Arabia 1/1 (Capitan) DONE!
Nat. Spain 2/14 (Capitan)
Liberia 1/1 (Capitan) DONE!
Greece 0/4
Yugoslavia 1/9
N. East Indies 2/2 (Capitan) DONE!
Belgian Congo 1/1 (Capitan) DONE!


Pre-1939:
Ethiopia 1/6
Rep. Spain 1/14
Czeckoslovakia 1/15
Austria 0/3

The list might have some colonies assigned wrongly.

If anyone has the urge to do the write-ups of a particular country send me a PM. This is very appreciated!

All HQs are done by Greyshaft.

Gary is doing all ART (including AA, AT) for all countries.

If I have forgot someone I appologize.


< Message edited by capitan -- 8/2/2007 11:09:11 PM >

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 31
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 5:04:27 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		I hope one of the territorials remaining is from Greenland!

"The population of Greenland was 22.000 in 1939 (20.500 of Danish stock/Danish-Eskimo, 500 Danes, 1000 Eskimos), After the fall of Denmark in April 1940 the administration of Greenland invited US forces to protect the island. Greenlanders created a sledge patrol to inspect the coast line and once such patrol had a combat with Germans from weather station, next day Germany evacuated that station and one man was captured by Greenlanders and lived till the end of WWII in single Greenlandic hotel. German submarine sank Greenlandic fishing ship at sea during the war."

Found on: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=97586


< Message edited by capitan -- 10/30/2006 5:36:28 PM >

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 32
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 7:09:28 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

I hope one of the territorials remaining is from Greenland!

"The population of Greenland was 22.000 in 1939 (20.500 of Danish stock/Danish-Eskimo, 500 Danes, 1000 Eskimos), After the fall of Denmark in April 1940 the administration of Greenland invited US forces to protect the island. Greenlanders created a sledge patrol to inspect the coast line and once such patrol had a combat with Germans from weather station, next day Germany evacuated that station and one man was captured by Greenlanders and lived till the end of WWII in single Greenlandic hotel. German submarine sank Greenlandic fishing ship at sea during the war."

Found on: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=97586



Funny how the population was Norwegian until the Swedish diplomat forgot to add all the Norwegian controlled Islands to his claim when Sweden gained control of Norway from Denmark.

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 33
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 8:44:25 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here are a few more naval unit descriptions. These are from Terje, who has ferretted out more information on South American navies.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 34
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 8:46:25 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		A couple of the Italian big honkers, as reported by Terje.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 35
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 8:48:46 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		3rd and last in the series. I also have some Spanish ships from Eric Osborne (Thrud), that I'll process and post later this morning.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 36
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 9:54:54 PM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline 		couple of extra "was"-es under the Almirante Grau, one each in the first 2 paragraphs.

I really like having this information for the units, it brings extra life to the game.  And I never get tired of looking at the counters.


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 37
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 10:15:46 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch
I really like having this information for the units, it brings extra life to the game.  And I never get tired of looking at the counters.

Yeah, moreover, you learn lots of things, I am very pleased with all that !

(in reply to stretch)
Post #: 38
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 12:13:44 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Some Spanish ships, courtesy of Eric Osborne (Thrud).




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 39
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 12:15:44 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		2nd and last in series.

I know you will be amazed to learn that the British also had a navy in WWII. This writeup comes to us from Graf Zeppelin.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 40
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 12:24:53 AM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Yeah, moreover, you learn lots of things, I am very pleased with all that !


too bad we can't add line drawings and photograps for air and naval units.
please don't hit me, Steve.


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 41
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 1:35:50 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		A single writeup from Wosung - but I think it counts triple




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to stretch)
Post #: 42
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 1:37:57 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A single writeup from Wosung - but I think it counts triple





He actually made more but I figured we should only tease the readers no?

Wosung for president!

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 43
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 5:28:34 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

2nd and last in series.

I know you will be amazed to learn that the British also had a navy in WWII. This writeup comes to us from Graf Zeppelin.





Zeppeliners?

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 44
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 6:08:10 AM   
christo

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 11/24/2005
From: adelaide, australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

2nd and last in series.

I know you will be amazed to learn that the British also had a navy in WWII. This writeup comes to us from Graf Zeppelin.





Zeppeliners?

Cheers, Neilster



I did a bit of research when I read the zeppeliner quote and the word may be danish. Tondern was originally in Germany but is now in Denmark. The link below is an interesting insight into the raid and the nature of the war in general at that time.

http://www.casey.tgis.co.uk/web/dfc/tonder.htm

Christo

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 45
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 9:10:11 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

A single writeup from Wosung - but I think it counts triple

Great.
Except for one thing : The IDs of the units talked about would be better in digits rather than letters. 66th rather than sixty sixth.

My previous remark about putting numbers in letters rather than digits was for small numbers, for example "there are two cases" instead of "there are 2 cases". In the latter, the use of a digit looks clumsy IMO.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 46
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 9:52:14 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

A single writeup from Wosung - but I think it counts triple

Great.
Except for one thing : The IDs of the units talked about would be better in digits rather than letters. 66th rather than sixty sixth.

My previous remark about putting numbers in letters rather than digits was for small numbers, for example "there are two cases" instead of "there are 2 cases". In the latter, the use of a digit looks clumsy IMO.


This is all my fault. I believed we had a consensus on this so I changed it.

I will change it back.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 47
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 10:15:24 AM   
Norden_slith


Posts: 166
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: expatriate german
Status: offline 		The "Tondernraid" or (Tønder in danish) is wellknown where I come from. Its just north of the border nowadays and you can still find the fundaments of the Zeppelinhalls there. Regarding the "originally german" thing, thats incorrect. The germans took over the place in 1864 (to 1920). Its originally danish, taken by the germans and then the population in the area voted for 3 different models of borders in 1920, thats where it still is. My hometown winding up in Germany (Flensburg - capital in the last days of the third reich btw).




_____________________________

Norden
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hexagonally challenged

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 48
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 10:27:03 AM   
CBoehm

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: christo

I did a bit of research when I read the zeppeliner quote and the word may be danish. Tondern was originally in Germany but is now in Denmark. The link below is an interesting insight into the raid and the nature of the war in general at that time.

http://www.casey.tgis.co.uk/web/dfc/tonder.htm

Christo


Tondern (?) or Tønder as we like to call it ... ;) is today indeed in Denmark. Denmark lost Tønder as well as 1/3 of Jutland and Slesvig to Prussia during the 1864 war ...after ww1 "as the story goes" UK basically offered we could have it all back and then some...ei. Hamburg was never part of Denmark (If Im not mistaken I think Hamburg Altona a suburb was, but dont hang me up on that one) - but fearing Germany or not wanting any more trouble with the issue the danish government made up its mind to agree with the German government that the border should be drafted according to the results of a referendum ... - this also had the consequence that the danish-german border was one of the very few that wasnt corrected after the occupation of Denmark ...ofcause this might have something to do with the germans planning in the longer term to simple absorb us as another bundesländern or something like that ...

Anyway I believe I started going on and on and on about this because something was said about Tønder and the zepelin facilities there - the facilities I believe is today a museum ...

http://www.zeppelin-museum.dk/

< Message edited by CBoehm -- 10/31/2006 10:31:23 AM >

(in reply to christo)
Post #: 49
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 10:44:31 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		First, thanx guys!

For the digit-letter question: Jesper advised me to use more letters.
Personally I think two-hundredth, or what else it might be, is hard to read. And not even a Chinese could spell it!

A few remarks about my write-ups:

1. Its hard to be consistent with the transcriptions: Right now the geographical names are in the WW2-style everybody is more or less used to from the WIF maps. But the names of the persons (beside Chiang Kai-shek) are in modern style of the People's Republic of China (PRC) - because everybody is used to it. It's the difference between Hupeh ore Hubei province, Mao Tse-tung and Mao Zedong, etc. Comments?

2. These little lingustical questions, together with the question of labelling and describing Chinese units and Warlords, etc. might have bigger impact, even on sales of MWIF.
"Hearts of Iron" has been banned in PRC because it labelled Sinkiang, Tibet, Manchuria as independant countries. At least HOI seems not to have been critized for using old transcriptions like Sinkiang. For the PRC and historical wargaming see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_of_iron

3. Addendum for the First Yoke: In the summary there should be a sentence like:
"The Chinese Army in India arguably was one of the best fighting units of the Chungking government."
Sometimes all the little facts just cover the essentials.

4. There is another unit description in pipeline. Second Yoke [unit 2956]. I had some difficulties to connect these two Yoke WIFFE counters with historical units. According to my sources (Tuchman: Stilwell; Oxford Companion to WW2, etc.) there was only one Y-Force (WIFFE Second Yoke). And WIFFE First Yoke historically was known as Chinese Burma Corps, X-Force, Chinese Army in Burma. Anybody wants to double-check?

Regards

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 50
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 11:13:14 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Now I changed the digits back. I kept the numbers 1-10 in letters and all above in numbers. This sound good? Or all numbers?

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 51
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 11:26:44 AM   
CBoehm

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

Now I changed the digits back. I kept the numbers 1-10 in letters and all above in numbers. This sound good? Or all numbers?


in unit designations ei. 1st 2nd 3rd...12th SS ... 101st airborne etc. - I prefer numbers ...

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 52
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 12:47:09 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

First, thanx guys!

For the digit-letter question: Jesper advised me to use more letters.
Personally I think two-hundredth, or what else it might be, is hard to read. And not even a Chinese could spell it!

Agreed completely.

quote:

A few remarks about my write-ups:

1. Its hard to be consistent with the transcriptions: Right now the geographical names are in the WW2-style everybody is more or less used to from the WIF maps. But the names of the persons (beside Chiang Kai-shek) are in modern style of the People's Republic of China (PRC) - because everybody is used to it. It's the difference between Hupeh ore Hubei province, Mao Tse-tung and Mao Zedong, etc. Comments?

About Mao Tse-tung / Mao Zedong, I believe that westerners are more used to the former (Mao Tse-tung)

About the Chinese transcriptions of the Provinces names of China in the 40s, here are the names I intend to use on the MWiF map :
- ANHWEI
- CHEKIANG
- FUKIEN
- HONAN
- HOPEI (or is it HOPEH ?)
- HUNAN
- HUPEH
- INNER MONGOLIA
- KANSU
- KIANGSI
- KIANGSU
- KWANGSI
- KWANGTUNG
- KWEICHOW
- SHANSI
- SHANTUNG
- SHENSI
- SINKIANG
- SZECHWAN
- TSINGHAI
- YUNNAN

I intend on having them written on the map, even if there are no Province border, just for flavor. Hopefully they will not clutter the map too much, otherwise I would remove them.
I write this so that you can use consistent names with the ones I'll use.
Obviously, if you think I'm wrong in any of those names, I'll accept your correction and use that name.

As a side note, I also intend to add the following area names :
- BELORUSSIA
- CRIMEA
- SILESIA
- PELOPONNESOS
- MACEDONIA
- THRACE
- CROATIA
- BOSNIA
- SERBIA
- SCOTLAND
- WALES
- ENGLAND
For flavor, and only if that does not clutter the map too much.

I would also like to add the USA & Canada states names too, but USA states names risk being much cluttered on the Northeast, so I don't really know yet.

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 53
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 12:52:58 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CBoehm
quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

Now I changed the digits back. I kept the numbers 1-10 in letters and all above in numbers. This sound good? Or all numbers?


in unit designations ei. 1st 2nd 3rd...12th SS ... 101st airborne etc. - I prefer numbers ...

Agreed.

Only for speech-like description is it preferable to use letters. For example, do not write "the 1st time it was used was..." but better put it in letters. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

(in reply to CBoehm)
Post #: 54
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 1:38:27 PM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		Patrice,

Hopei/Hopeh, both is possible, so stay with Hopei. We can correct it in the unit descriptions.

In first half of twentieth century China just was political fragmented and so were the transcriptions.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 55
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 4:30:12 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		I have been looking for some information on something that could be used for the GE MIL I have come up with nothing solid.

This is my suggestion for the MIL

[2527] [Berlin Militia]
.T This unit symbolises all the different Militia, Landwehr and Volksturm troops that helped in the defense of Berlin.
.P Berlin was captured on the 2nd of May 1945 by the Russians and most of the different surviving formations in this corps probably surrendered with the fall of the city.
.H
.B Campaigns: Berlin (1945)

-----

[2529] [Breslau Militia]
.T This unit symbolises all the different Militia, Landwehr and Volksturm troops that helped in the defense of Breslau.
.P Breslau was captured on the 7th of May in 1945 by the Russians and most of the different formations in this corps probably died defending the city.
.H
.B Campaigns: Breslau (1945)

----------

What do you guys think?

< Message edited by capitan -- 10/31/2006 4:35:52 PM >

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 56
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 4:38:48 PM   
CBoehm

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

This is my suggestion for the MIL


I like your description ...but wont this risk confusing a new player ei. if the 7-2 Berlin MIL represents the volksturm figting to defend the city ...why the hell can you build it contiously from start and send them fighting deep into the USSR ...

Perhaps a disclaimer should be added? **...MIL are generic units representing regular inf formations rushed into combat with only basic training and less inherent support weapons & motor transport ...**

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 57
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 4:48:43 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CBoehm


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

This is my suggestion for the MIL


I like your description ...but wont this risk confusing a new player ei. if the 7-2 Berlin MIL represents the volksturm figting to defend the city ...why the hell can you build it contiously from start and send them fighting deep into the USSR ...

Perhaps a disclaimer should be added? **...MIL are generic units representing regular inf formations rushed into combat with only basic training and less inherent support weapons & motor transport ...**



Very good. I think I will snatch that line as it is :-)


(in reply to CBoehm)
Post #: 58
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 4:50:44 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		[2527] [Berlin Militia]
.T This unit symbolises all the different Militia, Landwehr and Volksturm troops that helped in the defense of Berlin.
.P Berlin was captured on the 2nd of May 1945 by the Russians and most of the different surviving formations in this corps probably surrendered with the fall of the city.
.H
.B Campaigns: Berlin (1945)
.H
.P **MIL are generic units representing regular infantry formations rushed into combat with only basic training and less inherent support weapons and motor transport**


-----

Steve could you process it and let us see what it looks like?


< Message edited by capitan -- 10/31/2006 4:53:51 PM >

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 59
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/31/2006 7:25:53 PM   
jfk

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline 		"Stuka" in the German language is the abbreviation for both "STUrzKAmpfflugzeug" and "STUrzKAmpfbomber" (refering to " Das waren die deutschen Stuka-Asse 1939 - 1945, 4th edition, Stuttgart 1984, Motorbuchverlag").
Bcause everyone is associating "STUKA" with the Ju 87, which was actually a divebomber, "Sturzkampfbomber" has a greater degree of fame.

Regards
jfk

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 60
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