A World Divided and HoI Doomsday

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> A World Divided and HoI Doomsday

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A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/26/2006 5:30:21 PM

GKar

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(Note: I don't want to make a real comparison, both games stand and speak for themselves and simply have a different level of how things are handled. Personally I own and like both.)

The similarities between "World at War: A World Divided" and "Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday" are stunning in my opinion. Compared to their predecessors ("World at War" and "Hearts of Iron 2"), both...

...include a scenario and options for post-WW2 continuation wars
...add an espionage system
...change/add experience levels for the units
...make some refinements to combat (e.g. combined arms bonus in AWD and new leader traits in DD)

Funny, isn't it?

< Message edited by GKar -- 10/26/2006 5:32:33 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/26/2006 8:55:26 PM

Joel Billings

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Great minds think alike?

Seriously, we started thinking about refinements to WaW as soon as we started getting public feedback about the game. Some things Gary wanted to do differently, some things were suggested by reviewers/gamers, others were suggested by people at Matrix. Two games that are covering basically the same events are likely to be expanded in similar ways (at least superficially similar).

(in reply to GKar)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 2:40:17 AM

jadam12

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Hi there GKar!

I know you from HoI:DD forums, you are the leader of DAIM team, arent ya?

Its nice to see you here!
I'm really toying with the idea of buying world divided and I would be very grateful if you could PM me a comparison of DD and World Divided.

Thanks,
Jadam

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 3

RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 3:34:30 AM

GKar

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I might as well answer your question here in public as there is nothing to hide.

First things first, World at War: A World Divided is stand-alone - you don't need to buy anything else to play it.

The most important difference to HoI:Doomsday is that most things are at a significantly higher level of abstraction in W@W. E.g. today's Germany is divided in two parts ("provinces") only on the W@W map. Orders cannot be given hour-wise, but only during the turns (and there are four turns "only" per year). While HoI is almost real-time, W@W clearly is turn-based.

Regarding the scale of things, W@W is better compared to good old Axis & Allies than to HoI. One could even say that W@W is like A&A in a much refined and more detailed version. Most people that liked A&A will love W@W in my opinion.

Don't let the high level of abstraction fool you: There are lots of details and rules under the hood that make for important and interesting choices during the game. E.g. supply handling is actually more detailed and more realistic in W@W than it is in HoI. You have to think ahead in a different way than in HoI: Here the number of turns and thus the number of possibilities to implement your decisions is relatively sparse, so each step should be well-thought (at least if you want to compete on the highest levels of play

). I'd consider mastering HoI and W@W to be roughly of the same difficulty. HoI has more details overall, but each decision on its own is more important in W@W.

While matches of HoI take days or weeks to complete, a game of W@W can be played through in several hours. Thus it will provide some variety and show things from a different angle if you're tired from HoI. And then there's the option to play games by email against a human opponent - no hurry, no network lag, just play when you have the time.

But all that is just talk - if you want to get an impression, try out the demo of standard W@W (Link). As usual, a demo only gives a limited impression and the new W@W:AWD clearly is better than the first W@W, but it'll give you an impression nonetheless. You could also have a look at the available screenshots (Link) - don't worry, the NATO counters are optional, some nice sprites are default.

Personally, W@W was a very good buy for me because it is different from HoI and I like turn-based grand-strategy games in general. Having played W@W I didn't hesitate a second to buy AWD once it came out.

(in reply to jadam12)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 11:58:35 AM

jadam12

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Thanks for this comprehensive comparison, I'll dl and try the demo right now!

Jadam

(in reply to GKar)

Post #: 5

RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 9:47:10 PM

PanzersEast

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Peeking over the Fence
I�m a long time HOI II :DD player and have been looking at this one.... I played the demo of WaW and did not like it, however seeing the new version has me really interested in the game with the new system in place. Still on the fence with this one... would like to try something new, but not sure....

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But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. - Rommel

(in reply to jadam12)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 10:09:43 PM

GKar

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To be honest, if you didn't like the first W@W at all you won't like this one either. But I'm not sure how much of the game the demo is really able to show.

I was a bit disappointed at first when I bought the standard W@W, but then I got deeper into it and realized soon that there's a whole lot of strategies buried under the first impression of "Wow, I can move a tank sprite with one click from Germany to France" or "WTF?! Only 4 turns per year?!".
Almost everything is crucial at some point: Production, research, supplies - I found it to be more difficult to win in the beginning than HoI was for me (interface and micromanagement issues of HoI aside).

(in reply to PanzersEast)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 10:24:21 PM

PanzersEast

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Although I love being about to select individual commanders, units etc.... after a while HOI does burn you out on the micromanagement..... I guess I am looking for something different and am waiting for WiF to be released. HOI has been good for me, however I find myself losing interest in most games I play and end up not even completing them..... maybe I need to read some AAR to get a better feel. And in all fairness when I played the demo, I was realy biased to the detail of individual units and commanders that HOI had to offer....

_____________________________

But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. - Rommel

(in reply to GKar)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 10:57:14 PM

GKar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanzersEast

I was realy biased to the detail of individual units and commanders that HOI had to offer....

That's where it is decided: HoI has a lot more details than W@W, the question is if you will miss them or simply like an alternative to play. In some way, W@W rounds up my WW2 "portfolio": When I want to play for days or weeks to come and like to decide about each commander and such things separately, I'll play HoI. But when I want a somewhat quicker game experience without losing much of the strategic depth, I'll play W@W.

That said, WiF is on my radar as well.

(in reply to PanzersEast)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/27/2006 11:33:00 PM

PanzersEast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GKar

quote:

ORIGINAL: PanzersEast

I was realy biased to the detail of individual units and commanders that HOI had to offer....

That's where it is decided: HoI has a lot more details than W@W, the question is if you will miss them or simply like an alternative to play. In some way, W@W rounds up my WW2 "portfolio": When I want to play for days or weeks to come and like to decide about each commander and such things separately, I'll play HoI. But when I want a somewhat quicker game experience without losing much of the strategic depth, I'll play W@W.

That said, WiF is on my radar as well.

Sounds like you and I have the same taste in games... I'm leaning towards a puchase now... many thanks for the feedback

_____________________________

But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. - Rommel

(in reply to GKar)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 10/28/2006 1:00:15 AM

GKar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanzersEast

Sounds like you and I have the same taste in games... I'm leaning towards a puchase now... many thanks for the feedback

My pleasure! Drop me a note in case you buy it and would like to try a PBEM-game. Don't worry too much about lack of game experience, you'll have enough time to get deeper into the game while the turns go in and out anyway.

I found W@W's AI to be more of a challenge than HoI's (I guess it is more simple to play for an AI), but you'll reach its limits soon enough given a fair setup. I've yet to try the two special scenarios "Axis Blitz" and "Arsenal of Democracy" which are meant to be played against the corresponding AI. Some experienced players said it gave a real challenge.

(in reply to PanzersEast)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/1/2006 8:32:26 PM

GKar

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To those knowing HoI and still thinking about WaW/AWD, I found a similar thread made for the first WaW which might contain interesting bits of information for you.

Other than that - haven't you bought yet?! This is blitzkrieg, not waiting for Godot!

(in reply to GKar)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/2/2006 12:19:45 PM

watchtower

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I got rid of HOI: Reason? STARFORCE uuurrghh!!

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/2/2006 1:05:28 PM

GKar

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Nonsense, there is no Starforce protection in any of the three Hearts of Iron titles. You don't even need to put the CD in the drive.

(in reply to watchtower)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/2/2006 1:17:07 PM

watchtower

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Maybe i'm wrong about starforce but i'm sure there was some issue I had. i remember it driving me bonkers at the time.

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/2/2006 3:10:01 PM

Titanwarrior89

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Ive played HOI for awhile since its release a few years ago and HOI2 and one of the things I liked about it was no CD in the drive. Same with AWD.

AWD will become a classic I think.

_____________________________

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"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/2/2006 5:36:58 PM

SeanD

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None of the HoI titles use Starforce:

http://www.boycottstarforce.net/?page_id=3

Plus, the fact that you don't even need the CD to run it is pretty telling that their anti-piracy protection isn't super paranoid.

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Marketing and Press Relations Manager

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/3/2006 6:34:57 AM

neveS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GKar

To those knowing HoI and still thinking about WaW/AWD, I found a similar thread made for the first WaW which might contain interesting bits of information for you.

Other than that - haven't you bought yet?! This is blitzkrieg, not waiting for Godot!

I read through some of the posts in that thread and the one fellow's statement about being better off becoming a CPA and at least getting paid to push data around was laugh out loud funny.

I played (and still do on occassion) an old game called VGA Planets 3.0 which is a 4X (explore, expand, exploit, exterminate) pbem space game and its alot of fun. The author has been working on a 4.0 version where he took the elegant straight forward play of the original (which even in its relative simplicity lent itself to all sorts of different strategies) and added on all this extra crap that only served to add complexity to achieving optimal production\economic efficiency for the worlds you owned. So players who can essentially reverse all the formulas to discover what settings to use under what conditions have the advantage in production. But this sort of management has nothing to do with strategy. It's just data tweaking every turn that makes the actual implementation of your strategy less depedant on your own plans and more about your knowledge of the mechanics of the underlying simulation. I think the designer lost sight of what player's of vga planets 3.0 enjoyed about the game.

From what i've gathered about HoI2 it seems to fall into this same category. To successfully take an island for instance you gotta setup a freaking CAP mission, a naval mission, divide up armies to get them onto ships and planes and all sorts of technical mumbo jumbo jsut to execute what amounts to the movement of your game pieces. The player has a strategy but now has to jump through hoops to execute the plan properly.

As others have said the comparison really is apples to oranges because the difference amounts to hardcore multi-role command simulation versus a more pure command strategy game. It's like comparing the hardcore realistic space sim Orbiter with Starshatter.

< Message edited by neveS -- 11/3/2006 6:41:57 AM >

(in reply to GKar)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/7/2006 1:19:51 AM

PanzersEast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GKar
My pleasure! Drop me a note in case you buy it and would like to try a PBEM-game. Don't worry too much about lack of game experience, you'll have enough time to get deeper into the game while the turns go in and out anyway.

I found W@W's AI to be more of a challenge than HoI's (I guess it is more simple to play for an AI), but you'll reach its limits soon enough given a fair setup. I've yet to try the two special scenarios "Axis Blitz" and "Arsenal of Democracy" which are meant to be played against the corresponding AI. Some experienced players said it gave a real challenge.

Just a heads up - I have purchased.... however gonna need some practice

Will drop you a line when I'm ready.... thanks again for the feedback... now back to the war

< Message edited by PanzersEast -- 11/7/2006 1:23:47 AM >

_____________________________

But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. - Rommel

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 11/7/2006 1:10:08 PM

GKar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanzersEast

Just a heads up - I have purchased.... however gonna need some practice

Will drop you a line when I'm ready.... thanks again for the feedback... now back to the war

Sounds great, welcome to the club!

Have fun playing and learning the game, and send me a PM when you feel ready for the real thing.

The first PBEM experience is enlightening usually... - be it after one week or more than a year of play against the AI.

(in reply to PanzersEast)

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RE: A World Divided and HoI Doomsday - 4/30/2007 3:41:25 PM

Mithel

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GKar, thanks for the welcome and suggestion to read this thread. As you know I poured an incredible amount of time into trying to modify HoI/HoI2/DD. W@W-AWD and "Making History - The Calm and The Storm" are both getting attention from me now. Both have a lot of potential to be more enjoyable for me than HoI.

I've bought "Making History" (and I'm eagerly awaiting the first patch so it is no longer "fantasy land"). I'm considering buying AWD (there are many nice people here playing AWD!).

All three games have different appeal. I can't really comment on AWD as I don't own it yet and have not tried the W@W demo but it sounds like more of a "beer and pretzels" quick game. I have to admit the three months per turn is seriously disappointing. I like to get immersed in a game and play a single campaign for months not hours.

"Making History" really sounds more my speed. "Making History" really looks like turn based HoI. Still I'm sure there are many that love HoI's real time hour by hour aspect. But I think weekly turn based is very near perfect for me. I'd love to see AWD go to monthly turns, then it sounds like it would be a strong candidate for my "casual" gaming.

From what I know of all three, they are all fantastic ways to get into World War II and enjoy researching WW2 in more depth. I never enjoyed playing HoI but I certainly loved researching and trying to use their game system to create a realistic simulation.

< Message edited by Mithel -- 5/1/2007 7:23:21 PM >

(in reply to GKar)

Post #: 21