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RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 9:32:02 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Hi Freeboy

The CD backup copy should not be available and God willing will be taken down by DR on Monday. The Game On Demand was the CD and DVD box version.

Now guys I am do my best to see what I can do for you all. Let me first say that Matrix has release over 40+ games now and everyone of them has been handled in the same matter. Download first, box version shortly after release and it cost $10.00 more. This release was planned to be handled the same way but changed so we could offer printed manuals. We did not change things just to upset our customers but to try and give them what they wanted.

Now I know a lot of you claimed you would order a manual or the Game On Demand if possible so I going to make even a bigger push for at least a one time option to customers who order the download version but now want to upgrade to a Game On Demand version.

Let me make this CLEAR. I am promising nothing except I am going to work on this first thing Monday morning.

Oh... I like my tar warm not to hot please. <g>

David Heath
Matrix Games




As I stated earlier...as you didn't know you would be able to offer the manual, it's not Matrix fault that I wanted the download because I saw no benefit in the boxed version.

You do know, Eric, that if you do manage to get this option for people who have already had the download, one of two things will happen.
1. People who waited may well think it unfair that people were able to download and then get the upgrade option....why would they wait if they could've downloaded then upgraded
2. People owning other games are going to think it's unfair that they can't get this "one time offer option" for their games!!

In other words, you will not win with everyone.

If you get the one time option, then that would be great because, as well you may know, I LOVE printed manuals and have been vocal about it.

However, if you don't get the one time offer sorted out, then I am just happy enough that my favourite games developer is at last going to provide manuals...

Oh....can we have the manual in colour?

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 61
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 12:11:34 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Now I know a lot of you claimed you would order a manual or the Game On Demand if possible so I going to make even a bigger push for at least a one time option to customers who order the download version but now want to upgrade to a Game On Demand version.



Thank you.



quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

You do know, Eric, that if you do manage to get this option for people who have already had the download, one of two things will happen.
1. People who waited may well think it unfair that people were able to download and then get the upgrade option....why would they wait if they could've downloaded then upgraded


Hmm... six months in Aspen prison required for dodgy logic..

That would only make sense if those who waited did so because they wanted the printed manual. As nobody knew there would be one, that cannot be the case.

quote:

2. People owning other games are going to think it's unfair that they can't get this "one time offer option" for their games!!


What other games? FoF is the only one (at present) with a manual, and hence to which the offer could apply. If printed manuals should later become available for previous games hopefully a permanent 'upgrade' path will have been made available. Besides which, it's the timing here that is important. I'd love to have printed manuals for Harpoon 3 and TAOW3 in particular, and would buy one if given the opportunity - but in those cases I bought the games some months ago. In that case the 'argument' put forward by that smart-ass earlier actually has some validity; I'd have waited a week or two for the manual for those games, but not a month or six. I'd also point out that in a lot of cases those "owning other games" and those who have just bought FoF are one and the same.

quote:

However, if you don't get the one time offer sorted out, then I am just happy enough that my favourite games developer is at last going to provide manuals...


Likewise, and I'm looking forward to them coming with Battlefront and whatever else I might decide to buy in future. The only worry I have is that with many (I assume) waiting for the manuals release days around here just won't be the same any more Any chance of making the download plus boxed option available from the word go? I never could understand why that didn't happen, then peeps get the best of both worlds.

quote:

Oh....can we have the manual in colour?


Personally I would quite happily pay rather more than $10 for the 'big' manuals if they are well bound, in colour where necessary, and of a size sufficient to allow a typeface I can read comfortably.


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 62
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 1:38:11 PM   
Jonathan Palfrey

 

Posts: 535
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Sant Pere de Ribes, Spain
Status: offline 		I think people have been getting too excited about this. I'd quite like to have a printed manual, but of course as I chose to download the game I could hardly expect to have one. I've got the PDF file; that'll do. The PDF file is actually more useful than the printed manual in one respect: I can quickly locate particular information with Ctrl-F.

If Matrix will offer printed manuals in future, that's good, I'll try to bear it in mind. Though it would mean having to wait for the game for some time after it's downloadable.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 63
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 4:57:27 PM   
CTB123

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Iowa, USA
Status: offline 		I happily downloaded the game shortly after release.  I have never orderd the physical copy becuase it didn't offer anything over just downloading and burning a disk myself. 

That has been the way it has been for some 40 releases, as has been pointed out.  There was no point in waiting for the boxed version becuase other than some of the retail releases, there has never been a printed manual available.

I got exactly what I expected when I bought FOF.  The fact a new, never before option came up a week after I bought the game is what bugs me.  The PDF is great for looking things up, but I still like to sit down and read the manual and I don't like reading at the computer.

I still love Matrix Games and will continue to be a customer.  You guys have helped save and advance computer wargaming.  I think it's great the manual option will be available going forward.  It was just bad timing in its introduction. 

None of us have actually seen the new manuals yet.  As has been pointed out, they are black and white.  They may be on awful paper and have blurry print.    We might be getting all worked up over nothing.

Group Hug!

Tony

(in reply to Jonathan Palfrey)
Post #: 64
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 6:20:33 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		I'm very HAPPY with Matrixgames decisions. Now all those years of patiently waiting for a "printed manual" have paid off and I can now buy more Matrixgames titles that I more or less boycotted because of no printed manuals.

I do find it funny now all those opposed to them putting in printed manuals now whinning that it's "unfair to them" lol you got what you paid for....I just waited for what I am willing to pay for like some others I'm sure. You didn't get screwed you got what was offered at the time. Now things have "changed" (just like I always said things will change) and now future purchases you can get a printed manual as well as the digital download.

I think you all owe Matrixgames an apology for acting like children and throwing temper tantrums because you ordered FOF before the new printed manual feature came out. What's the old saying? Patience is a VIRTUE? ;)

Why do I sense a storm is coming ? ;) ahaah

Good for Matrixgames

(in reply to CTB123)
Post #: 65
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 7:15:31 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I do find it funny now all those opposed to them putting in printed manuals now whinning that it's "unfair to them" lol you got what you paid for....I just waited for what I am willing to pay for like some others I'm sure. You didn't get screwed you got what was offered at the time. Now things have "changed" (just like I always said things will change) and now future purchases you can get a printed manual as well as the digital download.


Who exactly is supposed to be have been 'opposed' to Matrix including printed manuals?! It's a great idea. I don't recall anybody saying they had been 'screwed' either. What you did have were some people, including me, who were rather disappointed to find out a week after buying the download in the belief that there would be no printed manual that there in fact would be one. With most games that wouldn't bother me in slightest, but this particular one needs both a thorough read-through before playing and constant reference for some time afterwards. I don't enjoy reading 250 pages of so of .pdf - it tends to give me a screaming headache.


quote:

I think you all owe Matrixgames an apology for acting like children and throwing temper tantrums because you ordered FOF before the new printed manual feature came out. What's the old saying? Patience is a VIRTUE? ;)


The end product of that 'logic' is that nobody should have bought the game at all, as next year Matrix might sell all their titles for half the current price with full colour spiral bound manuals and a free historical DVD. People wanted to play the game, so they bought it. However, I certainly can't accuse you of hypocrisy - that particular virtue, when applied to actually buying the games under discussion, is one you usually practice flawlessly




(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 66
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 7:18:12 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston
The only worry I have is that with many (I assume) waiting for the manuals release days around here just won't be the same any more Any chance of making the download plus boxed option available from the word go? I never could understand why that didn't happen, then peeps get the best of both worlds.


Actually you have to see it this way. The digital release comes a week "early". Almost in the "very minute" the game is completely put together, so people that don't want boxed copies do not have to wait a week more.

The one week "waiting" on the boxed version is the normal time that is needed for physical products to be prepared by the printer etc. and then being shipped out to the warehouses.

So the only solution to adjust to a synchronized release of all product options would be to hold on a week on the digital release too. Now, I'm damn sure that will be called "outrageous" too

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 67
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 8:16:45 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
The one week "waiting" on the boxed version is the normal time that is needed for physical products to be prepared by the printer etc. and then being shipped out to the warehouses.

So the only solution to adjust to a synchronized release of all product options would be to hold on a week on the digital release too. Now, I'm damn sure that will be called "outrageous" too


Outrageous, indeed, but i don't understand the reason for the mutual exclusivity.

For future releases, though, would it not be possible to make the 'both' option available on release day as I suggested? Then folks wouldn't have to wait to play, but would still get box and manual when they ship ten days or so later. That's exactly what I did with 'Defcon' recently.


< Message edited by Hertston -- 12/10/2006 8:35:30 PM >

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 68
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 8:25:28 PM   
willgamer


Posts: 902
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curious


Now you've gone and done it. You've maliciously and arrogantly characterized the "detractors" as being excessively overexcited ("emotionally overwrought"), stupid ("utterly illogical"), and foolish and witless ("silly"). I find your attitude to be egregiously offensive. The discussion in this thread was relatively civil and well-mannered until your post. You should be ashamed.

CB


Balderdash! I stand proudly by my civil, well-mannered, and apparently hard-hitting prose. My remarks are directed to attitudes that express envy. Someone got a better deal; big boo hoo!

My applause to those who are able to take full responsibility for deals they make.

Kudos to Matrix for enduring the remarks that were "egregiously offensive".


_____________________________

Rex Lex or Lex Rex?

(in reply to Curious)
Post #: 69
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 8:55:52 PM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		If Matrix Games was an elementary school kid, i shudder to think further, when Battlefront comes out they may say: "Ugh, all titles after this one...for sure...will have a manual, err...this one doesn't count".
Like Erik and/or Marc saying "99%" chance that NWS will have a copy with manual as there are none other being made......So, there is a 1% chance that all packaged CD's with case will "NOT" have a manual? Erik: "NWS should have a "CD/CASE/MANUAL" as they aren't any others being made, hmmm, if i'm not mistaken "should" is worse than a 1% chance of failure...right? So it's not over 'till the fat lady sings.

_____________________________

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

(in reply to willgamer)
Post #: 70
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 8:56:19 PM   
Curious

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 8/22/2003
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willgamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curious


Now you've gone and done it. You've maliciously and arrogantly characterized the "detractors" as being excessively overexcited ("emotionally overwrought"), stupid ("utterly illogical"), and foolish and witless ("silly"). I find your attitude to be egregiously offensive. The discussion in this thread was relatively civil and well-mannered until your post. You should be ashamed.

CB


Balderdash! I stand proudly by my civil, well-mannered, and apparently hard-hitting prose. My remarks are directed to attitudes that express envy. Someone got a better deal; big boo hoo!

My applause to those who are able to take full responsibility for deals they make.

Kudos to Matrix for enduring the remarks that were "egregiously offensive".



Well, you're entitled to you opinions and I'm entitled to mine. I would ask what balderdash is, but it actually sounds kind of "off the wall".

Long live Matrixgames.

Tally ho and all that good stuff,

CB

(in reply to willgamer)
Post #: 71
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/10/2006 11:24:31 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Folks, there's no need to even toy with making any of this personal. Believe me, we understand why some folks are disappointed even though there was not much else we could do. As I and Dave have posted, we will see next week if there is anything we can do after the fact. If not, then it is what it is, but we will certainly give it another try.

HellPatrol, ok, it's a 100% chance.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Curious)
Post #: 72
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 12:19:06 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey

I think people have been getting too excited about this. I'd quite like to have a printed manual...


Whatever Matrix choses to do, it'd be crazy on this occasion to release this game's manual in printed form without first fixing the typos. Of course I printed mine out knowing about the "Typo" thread's existence in this forum.

Btw I'd also recommend that when Matrix makes a link to a game's manual on each game's main screen, it should be to the "light" version. Systems with 512Mb Ram make looking at the fancy background version a jerky affair. In my case anyway. The light version is quick to load and scroll.

I remember the fuss all those years ago when Matrix copped flak for making gamers print out the Uncommon Valor manual with a picture background. It was so slow! Having a light version on disc from then on was a well-considered solution.

(in reply to Jonathan Palfrey)
Post #: 73
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 12:25:21 AM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


HellPatrol, ok, it's a 100% chance.

Regards,

- Erik

Now that's more like it! A Merry Christmas indeed and thank you for the answer, well worth the $106.99 investment IMHO

_____________________________

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 74
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 2:01:56 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Thanks for the Hard work guys(lmatrix). You seem to give us what we want yet some of us are still unhappy. I forone, like the way you have it set up.

So thanks again.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to TheHellPatrol)
Post #: 75
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 3:59:24 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		**So the only solution to adjust to a synchronized release of all product options would be to hold on a week on the digital release too. Now, I'm damn sure that will be called "outrageous" too **

Of course you know I have been pushing for this also. Just wait the week when the game is ready so the digital and physical release is ready at the same time. This all wouldn't have happened if this was in effect in the first place. ;)

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 76
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 1:46:05 PM   
Kylar Vonzain

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 12/11/2006
Status: offline 		I've been reading this forum for weeks, but as someone who makes a point to always wait until the possibilty of a physical copy is presented, or ruled out entirely, I haven't bough the game yet (though lord knows I want to). Thus, I have a question completely unrelated to the hubub surrounding the manual: When, exactly, will the physical product be offered for sale? As far as I can tell, it was supposed to be made availible roughly a week after the digital release and... well... its been almost two weeks since then with no word or option that I can find to buy it. Does anyone know whats going on?

_____________________________

"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it." - R.E. Lee

"You played for HOW LONG?" - My Girlfriend

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 77
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 4:31:40 PM   
Temple

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/31/2002
Status: offline 		deleted as being redundant to other people's posts.

< Message edited by Temple -- 12/11/2006 4:51:34 PM >

(in reply to XLegion)
Post #: 78
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 4:42:10 PM   
Temple

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/31/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick91

This is my 8th Matrix purchase and this time I have to admit; I do feel a bit screwed in purchasing FoF.

First, I noticed the file size after the purchase and now I can’t burn it on to my CD-R (my fault for not paying attention to the file size before I hit the Buy button). And now I read that for $10 more I could have had a cd AND a printed manual.




See this thread (link) for ways to burn the installer file using a CD-R. Basically you can see if you can use a CD-R blank with more capacity, or split the original file and burn to two CD-R.

(in reply to Slick91)
Post #: 79
RE: Boxed Copies and More Good News - 12/11/2006 5:23:22 PM   
Slick91


Posts: 269
Joined: 12/30/2002
From: Charleston, SC USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Temple

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick91

This is my 8th Matrix purchase and this time I have to admit; I do feel a bit screwed in purchasing FoF.

First, I noticed the file size after the purchase and now I can’t burn it on to my CD-R (my fault for not paying attention to the file size before I hit the Buy button). And now I read that for $10 more I could have had a cd AND a printed manual.




See this thread (link) for ways to burn the installer file using a CD-R. Basically you can see if you can use a CD-R blank with more capacity, or split the original file and burn to two CD-R.


I did try using MasterSplitter freeware to cut the install file in half and burn them onto two cd-r's. I haven't tried to reinstall the game using the split files yet. It just doesn't give me the warm-fuzzies to do that...bad ju-ju.

Anyway, I see in other posts that Matrix is looking at posting a two file installer that can be downloaded and burned on two cd-r's.

I'm still a bit confused on printed manuals and future games, will all future games from Matrix have printed b&w manuals in the boxed version?

_____________________________

Slick
-----------------------------
"Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne

(in reply to Temple)
Post #: 80
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