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Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 5:32:00 AM   
highblooded

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		Ok... I'm beginning to loose it. I'm trying to move a Corps into the enemy rear. I have 75,000 men in Cumberland(as the CSA) and I am trying to move a Corps of 25,000 toward Pittsburg which is relatively undefended.

I have tried for 3 turns now and I have not succeeded yet ( I have even tried to redo the turns several times). I own the Fort(in Cumberland) and the Army of North Virginia should be screening my move. But every turn, 1 or 2 units(from 1,000 to 2,000 US troops) continue to move in and upset the attack.

I have tried the avoid combat button. I have avoided transfering men between my commands. I have a supply of 9 at high priority. I have tried to do the same thing to the AI by sending single brigades into his forces but it didn't stop his 'blocking' units. What else can I do?

I find it hard to believe that a brigade from the east can block a move of a Corps out through the northwest, with the ANV blocking him. I have noticed it elsewhere, but they were not so critical. Has anyone else been constantly harassed by tiny units pinning down large forces?

Please help!
Post #: 1
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 6:45:13 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		It's one of the AI's favorite "moves".  And if your experiance is anything like mine, the "battle" also generates virtually no casualties so it doesn't even cost it losses.   I think someone pointed out earlier that AI's may not be very smart, but they do cheat.

(in reply to highblooded)
Post #: 2
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 7:06:38 AM   
chris0827

 

Posts: 441
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

It's one of the AI's favorite "moves".  And if your experiance is anything like mine, the "battle" also generates virtually no casualties so it doesn't even cost it losses.   I think someone pointed out earlier that AI's may not be very smart, but they do cheat.


The AI does the same thing if you try to build a fort. Turn after turn it sends in a single brigade to attack and prevent it.

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Post #: 3
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 10:16:02 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't seen this myself, but that's not a "cheat," it's a tactic. Perhaps a frustrating one, but certainly not a programmed AI cheat.

(in reply to chris0827)
Post #: 4
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 11:00:29 AM   
chris0827

 

Posts: 441
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

I haven't seen this myself, but that's not a "cheat," it's a tactic. Perhaps a frustrating one, but certainly not a programmed AI cheat.


I don't recall either side suiciding single brigades in order to stop construction during the war.

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 5
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 2:41:28 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		You obviously have missed the trend here where in it is decided this is NOT a simulation of the actual Civil War, but just a game that happens to occur during that time and borrows the name.

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Post #: 6
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 3:34:08 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		If you win a battle against units, then you should be able to move on the subsequent movement phase -- the AI should not be able to pin you down in the way you are describing.  Are you trying to move in winter? that would explain why your initiative checks fail so often.

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Post #: 7
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 10:03:23 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		also, that is not a tactic, it is the AI trying to move to someplace, it is not trying to start a fight, it is trying to get some where, and you happen to be in it's path

now why does it know to enter for combat, or not, but not for movement ? is something we reporting and looking at


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RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 10:08:24 PM   
spruce

 

Posts: 404
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline 		highblooded,

this means you have entered the Union highway (like I did - altough I was moving NW to SE with a large divison), this means you are attacking singular infantry brigades - which you can easely damage and still keep your container in good shape ! A good thing for you - in any case those small brigades are not stopping your movement. Those brigades just are moving to their destination - most often to reinforce one of their cities, fortresses or containers.

You might experience the fact that you are moving in winter time - or just have a very bad disposition for your army - in the game rules it says sometimes it will be impossible to move a "battered" container.

check the colour of the arrow if you are planning moves. A black arrow means - virtually impossible to move ... check the reason.

< Message edited by spruce -- 12/15/2006 10:17:23 PM >

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 9
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/15/2006 11:01:34 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Also, check the initiative of your Corps commander. If it's really bad he may just be refusing to budge. Think McClellan.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 12/15/2006 11:10:01 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/16/2006 1:57:04 AM   
highblooded

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		Some more info. The Corps General was Ewell or Early (something with an 'e') who was rated at 5's and 6's across the board.

The movement arrow was yellow (not blue-green, black, or red; by the way what do the colors mean exactly? I take that the blue means 100% to move, yellow means 50% or more, black means it is not going to happen and red... I don't know.)

The disposition was at normal or better for all units. The date was around June, with no bad weather.

My problem again is that I don't understand how my Corps could not move 3 turns in a row (10 turns if you count replaying saved turns), unless it was blocked by the enemy units( I just don't think I am that unlucky). It appears from what was said above that this is a design feature.

I understand that this is a game. And it is a great game! I am just trying to bring to light issues I have with movement. Whether you desire historical accuracy or just some fun, I believe that this is too frustrating to be allowed to continue. It should be changed in some way. Perhaps every 'griefer' brigade could block two other brigades from moving. Anymore than this seems unreasonable.

In my case I had 8 brigades moving out the back of a province(north west), 6 sitting in a Fort, and another 10 or so sitting in the province. 1 or 2 enemy brigades(from the east) should not have any effect on my movement thats just wrong.

I ended up moving my units into Virginia then around over to the river. But if I was the Union player I can foresee rarely being able to penetrate the CSA lines- have other players noticed this?

Well... thanks for your listening, I look forward to your replies.

(in reply to highblooded)
Post #: 11
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/16/2006 2:05:02 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Sorry Highblood

I would have to say no, I have not had any trouble with this, as long as I own the fort (which you say you do)

alot of people have had trouble moving from Cumberland and Annapalois but that is the forts holding them back, but as long as you hold the fort, you should be able to move where ever you want

(I was doing it all night last night)

sorry, don't know what is effecting your movement


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Post #: 12
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/16/2006 2:06:12 AM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		If you win combats against the incoming brigades, then they shouldn't be interfering with your movement for more than one segment.  Maybe I can add text to one of the reports that clarifies why each movement that fails does so, or perhaps an in-game message that could be toggled on/off.

Of greater concern to me are the incoming brigades.  The AI (and the routines that control the auto-join movement) is supposed to avoid enemy units when moving lone brigades to meet up with their destinations... it is possible to "catch" lone brigades on the move, but the brigades should be avoiding your groups if they are just sitting there.  I thought we had this working properly, but will look over the code again.


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Post #: 13
RE: Frustrating Movement System - 12/16/2006 2:46:18 AM   
spruce

 

Posts: 404
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

If you win combats against the incoming brigades, then they shouldn't be interfering with your movement for more than one segment.  Maybe I can add text to one of the reports that clarifies why each movement that fails does so, or perhaps an in-game message that could be toggled on/off.

Of greater concern to me are the incoming brigades.  The AI (and the routines that control the auto-join movement) is supposed to avoid enemy units when moving lone brigades to meet up with their destinations... it is possible to "catch" lone brigades on the move, but the brigades should be avoiding your groups if they are just sitting there.  I thought we had this working properly, but will look over the code again.



during my last CSA game I had defeated the Union in Virginia and they were healing wounds - in the west I was winning. But the Union kept on sending lone brigades into Virginia - into the ANV ... weird ! It seemed the Union was trying to reinforce something that wasn't there anymore - I had chased one of his armies into North Carolina a few turns before that - but that container got destroyed ?

(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 14
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