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RE: When does Singapore usually fall?

 
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RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/28/2006 5:15:14 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Works in PacWar, but I'm not sure it will in WITP.

Would be fun to try though

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Post #: 31
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/28/2006 7:50:39 AM   
bilbow


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

anyone ever try a direct assualt on Singapore at the beginning, before the allies can mass their forces their?


Oleg Mastruko tried it is some recent PBEM starts. I wasn't involved directly, but he indicated they were successful. He considered the losses "acceptable". He'll have to elaborate further.


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Post #: 32
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/28/2006 8:05:43 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Aye, I tested it out a few times. So long as you landed everything in just 1 day ( 1000 ton APs) the losses were actually quite acceptable. I made it a four division landing just to be on the safe side as it is imporant to be in a position to launch a Shock Attack on December 8th ( or at worst 9th). The ground losses are only disablements and thus don't really matter much.

The real killer is the fact that you'll have to commit to surface combat with Force Z and every other Allied ship trying to flee from Singapore. It can be done and with the instant capture of the port and repair yards at the very least your ships won't have far to travel to find somewhere to dock ut it will cost you heavily in terms of yard time for your surviving ships.

I entertained it for the current round of PBEMs but two things stopped me:
1. I think most Allied players would complain that  it is "too devastating". As a Japanese player if you maimise your return from early moves this seems to be a regular complaint.
2. You can achieve most of the same results at less cost if you are willing to land at Mersing ( Day 1 ) or Johore ( Day 2 ) so it isn't really required.

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Post #: 33
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/28/2006 10:18:47 AM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		yup
especially point 2 is valid
it is worth in my opinion to resign from PH just to cover closely these landings


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Post #: 34
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/28/2006 9:19:11 PM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		for me usually till jan or feb

manila managed to hold out till AUGUST 43


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Post #: 35
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/29/2006 12:58:31 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		"I entertained it for the current round of PBEMs but two things stopped me:
1. I think most Allied players would complain that it is "too devastating". As a Japanese player if you maimise your return from early moves this seems to be a regular complaint.
2. You can achieve most of the same results at less cost if you are willing to land at Mersing ( Day 1 ) or Johore ( Day 2 ) so it isn't really required. "


As long as you played with "suprise" OFF and the Allies got to react/move fully during turn one it should be acceptable. The Brits were worried and watching for such a move, so once those convoys come South of the Thai Border they (and everyone else) were going to react...



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Post #: 36
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/29/2006 5:49:42 AM   
The Dude

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		i tried it once and got my a$$ handed to me with interest, and regarding my previous post the three canadian brigades are holding hawaii

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Post #: 37
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/29/2006 11:35:59 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Mike,
Yeah those conditions would be acceptable.

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Post #: 38
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/30/2006 12:46:36 AM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		In my game with Worr, I tried teh Rumsfeld strategy and he held it until may...yes...I truly do find new ways to suck at witp :)

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Post #: 39
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/30/2006 1:44:14 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		That's the number 1 lesson in strategy. Never, ever do anything that Rumsfeld might think is a good idea. That man plumbs new depths in obstinacy and selective vision.

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Post #: 40
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/30/2006 9:42:57 AM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		:) Oh I know. Its been my experience that the forces available in stock were overkill at singapore. With CHS, underkill. My game with Worr is CHS...I went light in Malaya in an attempt to take out DEI faster...failed. failed. failed.

:)

Its going to be a short game.

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RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/30/2006 6:02:18 PM   
Crimguy


Posts: 1409
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline 		OK how 'bout Rangoon.  Any point as the US trying to make a stand there?  Is the Fortress Rangoon a possibility or, a dim fantasy, like you-know-who's Fortress Stalingrad?

I'm in mid-February 42 against the AI and have been building up there.  Now that Singapore has fallen I expect 150k troops to march on up (I don't think they have any transports left for the job).

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Post #: 42
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/30/2006 6:31:29 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Rangoon is a Roach Motel. Defenders can check in, but they won't check out.

BTW, it's the same death trap for either side. Just MHO.

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Post #: 43
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/30/2006 7:24:32 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		rroberson,

Better go in light into Phillipines or DEI than Malaysia. Malaysia is just too important to Phase II operations to take a chance.

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Post #: 44
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/30/2006 10:57:00 PM   
DSwain


Posts: 171
Joined: 9/23/2006
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

OK how 'bout Rangoon.  Any point as the US trying to make a stand there?  Is the Fortress Rangoon a possibility or, a dim fantasy, like you-know-who's Fortress Stalingrad?

I'm in mid-February 42 against the AI and have been building up there.  Now that Singapore has fallen I expect 150k troops to march on up (I don't think they have any transports left for the job).



I just tried that option - Rangoon as Tobruk, in a PBEM that I'm playing. 18th British Division there, supporting brigades and arty; level 5 fortifications. After one day of attacks from a determined Japanese opponent, I saw that it was a non-starter; managed to land/sea evacuate before I lost 'em all.



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Post #: 45
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/31/2006 12:28:22 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Dude

I think I can hold indefinitly.  I usually concentrate troops up at Alor Star and turn it into the Asian Gustav Line.  What always gets me is that once Kuantan falls the Japs can outflank my defenses and then i have to fall back and Malacca and Johore can never hold.  By the time my troops get to Singapore they are ineffective.

The game I am currently playing though The US 24th, 25th, 27th and Americal Divs are holding Mersing and the 2 Mar Div and 7th Armd Bde are holding Malacca keeping the Japs from sweeping around my Alor Star Front.  Its May and I think Singapore is going to hold


WTF? In my games, the Jap Div landing at Kota Baru always manages to reach Johore within a week, although I rush all available Brigades in southern Malaya to the hex west of Kuantan, trying to stall its advance - no such luck. The Alor Star units thus have to retreat FAST or be cut-off. Singapore under siege by 21st of December at the latest. How can you hold the right flank long enough to get US troops to Malaya? Scary! (*Mental notice: don't accept PBEM challenge from The Dude*)


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Post #: 46
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/31/2006 12:48:21 AM   
DSwain


Posts: 171
Joined: 9/23/2006
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Dude

I think I can hold indefinitly.  I usually concentrate troops up at Alor Star and turn it into the Asian Gustav Line.  What always gets me is that once Kuantan falls the Japs can outflank my defenses and then i have to fall back and Malacca and Johore can never hold.  By the time my troops get to Singapore they are ineffective.

The game I am currently playing though The US 24th, 25th, 27th and Americal Divs are holding Mersing and the 2 Mar Div and 7th Armd Bde are holding Malacca keeping the Japs from sweeping around my Alor Star Front.  Its May and I think Singapore is going to hold


WTF? In my games, the Jap Div landing at Kota Baru always manages to reach Johore within a week, although I rush all available Brigades in southern Malaya to the hex west of Kuantan, trying to stall its advance - no such luck. The Alor Star units thus have to retreat FAST or be cut-off. Singapore under siege by 21st of December at the latest. How can you hold the right flank long enough to get US troops to Malaya? Scary! (*Mental notice: don't accept PBEM challenge from The Dude*)



That is mind-boggling! Shipping five US divisions to Malaya in 1941/42? How on earth do you get them through, for starters? There isn't some sort of C-17 heavy-lift mod that I'm missing, is there?!




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Post #: 47
RE: When does Singapore usually fall? - 12/31/2006 2:18:13 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I assume its an AI game ?

In my experience it all depends on the main Japanese landing site.

Assuming a normal quasi historical opening with KB hitting PH and mini KB operating around PI and normal landing forces ascribed to Malayan Attack

Khota Baru landing

Mid to End January is normal

Kuantan

Mid January

Mersing

Early January

Singapore

Early December

Johore Bahru (as a player I really dont like allowing this option as its just too devastating with no real allied counter anything that enters the Malacca straight I am more or less uncomfortable with until Singapore is a least invested)

Mid December

No Landing just overland from North - this one I also hate but cannot think of a single valid reason to ban it the thought of all those escorts and amphibs going somewhere else is seriously scary - this one especially married to a feint landing somewhere on the East Coast really messes with allied players minds as they often start to run back to Singapore to avoid being flanked when the Japanese dont actually have the strength to achieve it freeing up multiple Jap Divs to take Java or Timor or NZ or Northern Aus

Early February

Andy

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Post #: 48
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