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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank?

 
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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/24/2007 9:28:21 AM   
Ursa MAior

 

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Stuff like this is the reason Americans don't care what you think. What has your left wing opinions got to do with tanks?

You're clearly out of your league here so all you got is "Americans are doo doo heads"

"Hungary, EU" Good luck with the fourth reich.


It is a good thing that u dont pay attention even when it looks like you do. I was a never a leftist, nor a fan of any reich. I NEVER SAID AMERICANS ARE DOO DOO HEADS. I was critical. Dont you know this expression? You and your likes ALWAYS forget the postives things in any opposing oppinion. I said I listen to country music a lot, I like most of amercian movies etc. But I PRESERVE MY RIGHT to be critical. This 'simple as a stick' way of thinking (Bark with us or perish.) will cause more headache to you than you couild probably imagine.

Why dont you just go back to your steakhouse? Before you and your likes showed up more or less we were able to handle our things in a normal way. Your place is in the dawg house or the steak whatever.

I was I am and will be critical since thinking people dont except things as written in stone (except for religion), even if you bark at me.

< Message edited by Ursa MAior -- 1/24/2007 9:43:01 AM >

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Post #: 91
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/24/2007 5:32:20 PM   
morvwilson


Posts: 510
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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

This is a candidate for the shortest (and best) answer why people from ROW dont really like americans.

Read this and think what was your part in it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6288933.stm

Your country is much stronger than anybody, but much weaker than everybody. When traditional allies as Poland turn away from the US, YOU (not only the politicans) too have to think about how was this possible.



Stuff like this is the reason Americans don't care what you think. What has your left wing opinions got to do with tanks?

You're clearly out of your league here so all you got is "Americans are doo doo heads"

"Hungary, EU" Good luck with the fourth reich.




Hey doggie, there was a book I read some years ago in which it said:

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

If your goal is to turn the other guy around to your way of thinking, putting the other guy down will not work.
If I came to joe blow on the street and said to him that he was a left wing pinko then gave the best oration in history about how the sun rose in the east and sets in the west, he would not except the argument. It would not matter how right I was or how wrong he was, because of my clumsy conduct his ego would not allow him to accept any argument I put forth since I had insulted him.

If you want to sway the other guy to your way of thinking, find common ground and then built upon that and don't be afraid to point out when the other guy may have a good point. This will make it easier for the other guy to accept your good points.

Benjamin Franklin once said that if he was right 50% of the time he was doing well. I do not consider myself to be as smart as Ben Franklin.

Now, with that said, what attitude do you think will be more productive in swaying people to your way of thinking?

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Post #: 92
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/24/2007 9:29:51 PM   
Ursa MAior

 

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
Status: offline 		You better listen well to what morvwilson says. Doggie.
I am an open person. You can convince me, but bring ARGUMENTS not INSULTS. Given you have tried the latter first you will have a hard tmie doing it, but it's not impossible.

Still I have the feeling you will back down as ALL of those have done before who have bashed me for not being pro-US enough.


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Post #: 93
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/24/2007 9:48:05 PM   
.50Kerry


Posts: 325
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From: a long dark river winding through the jungles....
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

You better listen well to what morvwilson says. Doggie.
I am an open person. You can convince me, but bring ARGUMENTS not INSULTS. Given you have tried the latter first you will have a hard tmie doing it, but it's not impossible.

Still I have the feeling you will back down as ALL of those have done before who have bashed me for not being pro-US enough.




Heh, you put an awful lot of stock in "everyone else" hanging tough and together.

Look we get it it must be tough not being a true world power since the 1800s and watching the smoldering ruins of the power base of your empire back at the dawn of the 20th. We Americans are not a hardhearted bunch, but if you are banking on Ivan, Mao, or Abdul ever buying into the Continental EUtopian idea of "power sharing" you are dreaming.

GW1 and Kosovo taught the US a valuable lesson....

power sharing to Pierre and EUro friends goes something like this:

Lucky Pierre: Hey Sam le Eagle why don't you provide 95% of the logistic lift, 75% of le TacAir, and 90% of le funding and we'll take 50% of le target selection?

now sure the counter to that is "you vant 90% of le decision making and perks but us to take half ze blame"....

there is a lot of bargaining room but EUtopia brooding that our left wing is out of power so they don't want to play is not a good starting bid.

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Post #: 94
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 12:04:33 AM   
Doggie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior



Still I have the feeling you will back down as ALL of those have done before who have bashed me for not being pro-US enough.



I don't care whether you're pro U.S. or not. I don't care what you think, and I don't care if you agree with me or not. It's evident from you comments that you're simply a vicious, hatefull little troll, who knows nothing about the subject at hand and resorts to lame name calling when your ingorance becomes apparent. You should be gratefull 50Kerry wastes his time with you.

And aside from a certain Canadian parasite we have all come to know and despise, I have yet to see anyone who is so full of himself for so little reason. Most of "me and my ilk" especially .50Kerry and Rune, have actually worked with the weapons being discussed here, and are able to provide a little more insight on the subject than what some European college boy saw on the history channel.

quote:

I am an open person. You can convince me, but bring ARGUMENTS not INSULTS.


How about showing us some arguments then? Anybody with enough un meth addled grey matter to read can see for himself you've brought nothing but insults here.



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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 12:17:52 AM   
.50Kerry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie


Most of "me and my ilk" especially .50Kerry and Rune, have actually worked with the weapons being discussed here, and are able to provide a little more insight on the subject than what some European college boy saw on the history channel.







while flattering and mostly true, I did work with the usual infantry kit and all and Rune is a machine gunner I have decided to relent from that particular tack and be a "goodwill ambassador". I think what Bear Superior is trying to say is that he can be convinced to be an ally for US globalism, and security ops. I don't believe that but am often entertained by seeing just how supine our EUtopian aid expects US to get for their "massive help".

At any rate, any moment now I am certain that Terminus will explain to rune, "no, no it really was a macho G-36" with veracity and facts on his side.

The MG-4 is more like an H&K Minimi than that mess of the Machoized G-36....

the "macho ARs" are wonderful right up until you need to go through two belts or beta c-mags....

< Message edited by .50Kerry -- 1/25/2007 12:38:26 AM >

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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 12:48:04 AM   
Doggie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: .50Kerry

At any rate, any moment now I am certain that Terminus will explain to rune, "no, no it really was a macho G-36" with veracity and facts on his side.


Yeah, I'm holding my breath.

"Veracity and facts" around here seem to consist of "you're a poo poo head. We were having such a swell time discussing what poo poo heads you are until you came along and spoiled our polite, intellectual discussions" Neener neener neener!



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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 2:23:30 AM   
morvwilson


Posts: 510
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		Hey, Doggie, Kerry this is favorite tank  If a guy likes the Panther, he likes the panther. Gotta admit the tank had nice lines!
If another guy likes the Sherman, he likes the Sherman.
Would you guys condemn a man for prefering chocolat ice cream over vanilla or strawberry?

But fine, let's say for arguments sake you two win over ursa, you have soundly defeated the Hungarian student! (and the crowd goes wild)
What have you gained?

Ursa is a COLLEGE STUDENT! These institutions (colleges and universities) are not known for their politically conservative outlook. Have you attracted ursa to your way of thinking or driven him off?

Life attracts, death repels!
 
 

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Post #: 98
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 4:18:28 AM   
Doggie


Posts: 3244
Joined: 9/19/2001
From: Under the porch
Status: offline 		Hey Morvwilson, it was about favorite tank until Superior Bear interjected with this:

quote:

Well .50 Kerry and Rune. Go look for mdiehl, spence and Demosthenes in the WitP forums. They have the same view of historical events like you. Code word is imperial arrogance. See ya.



followed by

quote:

This is a candidate for the shortest (and best) answer why people from ROW dont really like americans.


and

quote:

The world is NOT black and white! I dont support EVERYTHING that the US does, but that does not mean that I hate everything it does!. Comprende?

This 'train of thoughts' did, does, will cause more damage to the reputation of the US than 3.210.540.540.406.450 Invasions of Iraq/Iran/North Korea whatever.

Read this and think what was your part in it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6288933.stm

Your country is much stronger than anybody, but much weaker than everybody. When traditional allies as Poland turn away from the US, YOU (not only the politicans) too have to think about how was this possible.


You see a pattern emerging here?  Everyone else is talking about tanks, but baby bear objects to all this talk about tanks interupting his lessons on how much Americans suck.

quote:

Before you and your likes showed up more or less we were able to handle our things in a normal way. Your place is in the dawg house or the steak whatever.


Never mind the fact that "me and my likes showed up" five years before he did, it seems we're encroaching on the "normal way" of turning every topic into a discussion about how Americans suck, and here the sucky Americans and their sucky British and European allies are interupting his polite discussions about how we all suck with all this nonsense about tanks.

There is absolutely nothing in this world that could attract cubbie to our way of thinking.  That would take a couple of more decades of maturity, and maybe venturing out of his dorm room and into the real world now and again.  As of right now, his world revolves around his belief that Americans suck, and how he has to spread the word that Americans suck, so all his little meth addled pals back in his dorm will think he's cool.










< Message edited by Doggie -- 1/25/2007 4:30:34 AM >

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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 4:47:20 AM   
morvwilson


Posts: 510
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		So, doggie if you have the maturity you speak of, supply it!
Ursa already expressed a desire to go to a state which allows its citizens to own machine guns. Does that sound like a liberal view point?
Weapons in the hands of the citizenry is anathema to liberals, you should know this!
If Ursa has some mistaken views (which were most likely supplied by the press or university systems) correct them gently. Allow the other guy to save face!

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Post #: 100
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 4:47:21 AM   
Deathtreader


Posts: 1039
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline 		Well boys,

Been an interstin' diatribe......now please get past it you two -- this is a hobby site and the rest of us are here to talk tanks!!
My vote goes to the JS II (I don't think the III quite made it in time -- but I could be wrong).
Heavily armoured, powerful gun, fairly reliable as heavy tanks go.
Surprised to hear no mention of the Comet.
Regards,

Rob.


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Post #: 101
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 4:48:45 AM   
morvwilson


Posts: 510
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		What, no one else likes the russian T-35?

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Post #: 102
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 7:14:17 AM   
Ursa MAior

 

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
Status: offline 		Nice big bunch of comments.

1. Ursa Maior is a stellar constellation meaning Big Bear. AFAIK mocking someone's nick is a prime crime against netiquette. Puppy take note!

2. 50Kerry. You are right about problems with the EU allies (esp France). But an alliance is about compromizes. (sp?). USA + EU will be strong enough only MAYBE to counter a forming Russia-China India or Iran alliance. Check under Shanghai Cooperation. http://www.sectsco.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organization

3. "simply a vicious, hatefull little troll" It's evident that you are an uneducated, naughty little dog. Thanks for the argument it was a real pleasure to meet G I Joe himself.

4. As of arguments. What do you DON'T understnad under: I accept US military, therfore economical and political supremacy. I accept and enjoy MOST part of the american culture. Iraq, Afghanistan (even Lebanon 2006) has showed that regular armies can not deal with insurgencies (a known fact since ages check Napoleon in Spain 1808 onwards).

5. I visit the University of the Reformed Church and it is one of the most conservative schools in the country. So according to you who live outside your allmihgty country and does not lick you boots is automatically a leftist commie. What a way of thinking! Stick! Fetch!

6. I state again USA DOES NOT SUCK! As a WWII billboard said. Business as usual? US open your eyes. All you have to do is accept that you are not strong enough already to rule the world alone. We have more common (even you and me) than I have with a chinese or a russian. And they will conquer Eurasia if dont unite our forces. Read Brzezinski. He aint no commie and says the same. Watch Red Dawn the movie. It is not far away (except chinese replacing the cubans). Unless we dont find a way.

If you want to reply in a normal manner we can go on if not we should really finish.

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Post #: 103
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 6:02:27 PM   
Knuckles_85


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quote:

4. As of arguments. What do you DON'T understnad under: I accept US military, therfore economical and political supremacy. I accept and enjoy MOST part of the american culture. Iraq, Afghanistan (even Lebanon 2006) has showed that regular armies can not deal with insurgencies (a known fact since ages check Napoleon in Spain 1808 onwards).
Are you sure about that? The Romans were pretty good at putting down insurgencies especially amongst the Jews using brute force. The US was able to pacify the Philipines and in Vietnam after Tet the Vietcong was all but wiped out. Oh and ask the Brits about pacifying an insurgency against the Boers. It's not that the US don't want an alliance with the EU it's just that it doesn't really benefit us. There are a select group within the EU that bullies the others in the EU to bend to their will that set policy against the US. The comment you missed a good oppurtunity to shut up is a good example. They expect the US to be their military wing. To have us be the heavy lifters with absolutely no input. That's not gonna happen. We tried that in Somalia and in Serbia and where did that get us?

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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 6:12:26 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
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Status: offline 		I LIKE the idea of the T-35, so many cannon, but reality is it just wasnt gonna work ) .

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Post #: 105
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 6:16:36 PM   
morvwilson


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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

I LIKE the idea of the T-35, so many cannon, but reality is it just wasnt gonna work ) .

True enough! When ever I used them in Steel Panthers or Squad Leader(guess I am aging myself there) they either broke down or made excelent target practice for the other side
I think I managed to make some Finnish troops do a moral check once using a T-35, which they succeeded at. That was about all the damage I ever did with that type of tank, but it did supply some comic relief!

< Message edited by morvwilson -- 1/25/2007 6:28:36 PM >

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Post #: 106
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 6:45:09 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

Tiger than Panther.


Axis fanboy

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Post #: 107
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 6:47:11 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Status: offline 		For me it's the Panther G...........

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Post #: 108
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 7:40:49 PM   
BailChannis

 

Posts: 9
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Status: offline 		Well, it started out as a nice thread ...

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Post #: 109
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 9:05:09 PM   
robpost3


Posts: 465
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From: the backwoods of Mass.
Status: offline 		Sherman and the Chruchill they were Kings...did it all...Crabs, Onions, DD with water wings, AVRE, Bangalore Torps, Rhino...sexy

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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 9:12:24 PM   
Ursa MAior

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
The comment you missed a good oppurtunity to shut up is a good example.



You mean I should shut up?



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Post #: 111
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 9:21:00 PM   
Knuckles_85


Posts: 581
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From: The hell known as Wisconsin
Status: offline 		No I meant the comment Chirac made in the build up to war. He made that comment to countries that wanted in the EU but sided with the US.

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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 9:30:56 PM   
Ursa MAior

 

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
Status: offline 		I see thanks.

You have some valid points, but the rules of engagements and the treatiment of the civilians have significantly changed since the romans. Oh yeah one more thing. The lst one to fully conquer Afghanistan was Alexander the Great. Ha married the daughter of a chieftain. Maybe that is the way to go.

The brits have indeed defeated the boers but in such an inhumane way (concentration camps anybody?) that was comdemnded even by the contemporary comments. They were more succesful in Malayasia with winning hearts and minds.

The french are nuts we all know that. Even though in a EU+US close cooperation -in NATO- would require both sides to give up some interest it is still beter then sinking with the colors flying, see my previous pots about Brzezinski. (BTW ther were no EU only UN troops in Mog).

IMHO Serbia was a success for both EU and US (NATO that is) it is really a pity thet the EU has to lend ukrainan planes to fly his troops to somewhere.

< Message edited by Ursa MAior -- 1/25/2007 9:44:34 PM >

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Post #: 113
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 9:31:52 PM   
.50Kerry


Posts: 325
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior



You mean I should shut up?





Not at all, don't be combative. When Jock ChIraq tells smaller EU nations that dare back the US or state that it is in the interests of western civ to present itself as an Aegis against radical Islam and the best France and Germany can come up with is "maybe we don't need YOU EU members or any new slavic or eastern nations involved" it speaks volumes about the integrity and "democracy" of the EU. It is in no nation's best interests to allow its sovereignty to be subsumed to nations who have not subsumed their own.

That's how it looks from this side of the pond anyway.

An alliance is "give and take" not "give and give" or "take and take".

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Post #: 114
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 10:11:55 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		If you call an open-topped AFV a "tank" I most like the US M36.


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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 115
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 10:23:33 PM   
Doggie


Posts: 3244
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathtreader

Well boys,

Been an interstin' diatribe......now please get past it you two -- this is a hobby site and the rest of us are here to talk tanks!!


You may be here to talk tanks, but baby bear is here to talk trash:

quote:

It's evident that you are an uneducated, naughty little dog

So according to you who live outside your allmihgty country and does not lick you boots is automatically a leftist commie. What a way of thinking! Stick! Fetch!

you are not strong enough already to rule the world alone


In other words, "Americans suck." What does all this continued leftist agi-prop have to do with tanks?


Not too bright, either, as

quote:

AFAIK mocking someone's nick is a prime crime against netiquette. Puppy take note!


Is immediately followed by

quote:

you are an uneducated, naughty little dog. What a way of thinking! Stick! Fetch!


It seems blatent hypocrisy is becoming a pattern here.

quote:

You mean I should shut up?


When you're digging yourself into a hole, the first step is to stop digging.
While a child's eye view of world politics can be entertaining, tantrums can be tedius. The first step in being taken seriously is to be more respectfull of the grown-ups.





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Post #: 116
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/25/2007 11:02:09 PM   
Knuckles_85


Posts: 581
Joined: 9/1/2002
From: The hell known as Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Concentration camp is a propoganda tool to equate a nation to Nazis. The death rate inside the interment camps where better thn outside them even though yes the Brits were pretty harsh. You still didn't address the Phillipines and the Vietcong. Both were in modern times with care taken toward civilians.

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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/26/2007 1:11:23 AM   
Twotribes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Concentration camp is a propoganda tool to equate a nation to Nazis. The death rate inside the interment camps where better thn outside them even though yes the Brits were pretty harsh.


Along that train of thought....

I would venture that American Slaves were in better conditions then if they were living in the African continent. Does not mean that that condition was acceptable, good, or even reasonable. The term Concentration Camp does bring up the horrors of WW2 camps, but it is an appropriate term for the camps in South Africa that the British set up.

The British did not provide adequete housing, medical supplies, medical personnel, bedding, cots or even food for the "interned" families. On top of that they specifically rounded up women and children and old people for no other reason then to terrorize the Boers into surrendering. Most if not ALL the camps were set up in abysmal spots. Along river banks or on open plains. Again the tents that were provided were old moldy, in most cases tattered and full of holes. And the occupants were required to provide their own bedding and in most cases if they didnt bring something to sleep on, at least at first, they slept on the cold ground.

Did it work? Sure did. I suspect if the US used those tactics or even the ones used in the Philippines Insurrection our enemies would be happy as an ant at a free picnic.

Even if the rounded up personnel were provided state of the art medical and dental care, high rise apartments and furnished rooms with over adequate food, the action of rounding up a civilian population and placing it behind barb wire would result in comparisons to WW2 camps. And while it might work, the arguement would be made that it would only work until such time as you eventually released the people "interned" or you killed everyone capable of fighting you.

Just look at what is said about the US rounding up Japanese descendants in the US during WW2 for a semi current comparison. OR better yet check out the hysteria by some over Gitmo and ACTUAL enemy combatents.

The British action in South Africa was barbaric. Both in the treatment provided and the REASON for the round up. The US internment of American citizens was illegal and while I wouldnt call it barbaric, I would call it hysteria and ulimately unneccassary.

(in reply to Knuckles_85)
Post #: 118
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/26/2007 2:51:55 AM   
BailChannis

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Concentration camp is a propoganda tool to equate a nation to Nazis. The death rate inside the interment camps where better thn outside them even though yes the Brits were pretty harsh. You still didn't address the Phillipines and the Vietcong. Both were in modern times with care taken toward civilians.


How can it have been a "propaganda tool" when the Nazis didn't even exist yet? That's what the British called the camps - concentration camps. Surely, they were not engaging in prescient propaganda against themselves?

Also, conditions in the camps were pretty bad, as there was little experience on anyone's part in running camps of that size. Sanitary conditions were poor and there were outbreaks, which resulted in nearly a 50% mortality rate. However this was not a result of deliberate policy - it was simply a factor of inexperience.

The work camps that proliferated during the Depression were also referred to as "concentration camps" in English speaking countries, and conditions were relatively good in those (owing to more extensive experience and planning).

(in reply to Knuckles_85)
Post #: 119
RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 1/26/2007 6:29:35 AM   
morvwilson


Posts: 510
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		Maybe we should have a seperate thread for the asymetric/guerilla warfare line, check the new thread

(in reply to BailChannis)
Post #: 120
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