Battalion Guns

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Age of Muskets] >> Horse and Musket: Volume I, Frederick the Great >> Battalion Guns

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Battalion Guns - 2/2/2007 9:34:48 PM

anvl

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One thing that has not been mentioned is the use of Battalion guns. Recognising that this is a "Wish List" I would really like to see Battalion guns represented. This feature is one of the more important items that makes the SYW different from earlier and later eras. If Regimental order could be done,, ie a regiment of 2 - 4 battalions in line, column, etc, then to keep the clutter down, a battalion gun representing 4 guns could be placed between two battalions. They would move with the battalions, and thus, hopefully not need any special move orders from the player. Hopefully they would break\rout separately from the battalions. They are already in the editor, but not graphically represented in the game.

Battalion guns were used by all armies,,and in every theater, so this would be a really nice addition to the game,,

anvil

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/3/2007 11:18:48 AM

I�aki Harrizabalagatar

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quote:

Battalion guns were used by all armies,,and in every theater, so this would be a really nice addition to the game,,

anvil

Not by the French

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/3/2007 4:32:45 PM

anvl

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I�aki Harrizabalagatar,,

I don't know much about the French,, but that is a surprise to me. Lol,, What can you say,, they are The French.. and always an exception to the rule.

anvil

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/6/2007 8:19:17 AM

I�aki Harrizabalagatar

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There is a logic behind it, Battalion guns were a trade, they increased firepower but decreased mobility, as soldiers were unwilling to leave them behind when moving into the attack and they rarely could keep pace with infantry, so French commanders thought they didn�t fit into the offensive style of the French infantry, besides their increase in firepower was thought not worth the addition to the logistic burden of the army.

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/6/2007 6:36:11 PM

anvl

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Pretty interesting,,,especially considering some of the other tech decisions made by the French post Nappy,,,

I think they must be the only country that i know of then, that didn't use battalion guns,.. I am not sure about all the Germanic countries,,but i do know that all those influenced by Austria and Prussia did use them.I believe most of the others did as well,, but i will check and see. A good question. Austria,Prussia,Brits,Russia,US,all had battalion guns,,and I believe Spain did as well.

Personally i do not think they slowed down the mobility of the time, but i do think that they were expensive losses in a retreat as i can only imagine they were abandoned in this case.

But the really cool thing,,with this bit of knowledge is,, that if battalion guns could be added to the OOB of a battalion,, then we could test the French Theory of no battalion guns vs, that of having them..

So if there were a 3lb model,,and my second major wish list item, guns being assigned within the command structure,,then this could be done.

anvil

< Message edited by anvl -- 2/6/2007 7:11:12 PM >

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/7/2007 1:47:58 AM

I�aki Harrizabalagatar

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I tried to model all those subtilities in H&M2 until I discovered that the high random factor made them irrelevant, I hope it is corrected in this new version, or at least made editable.
Spanish didn�t use them either.
There are numerous examples of Battalion guns slowing down infantry, besides the soldiers put sometimes such a confidence in those pieces they were unwilling to advance when they become stuck or a wheel was broken.
Marlborough was one of the many commanders that didn�t like them either because of the logistical burden they represented.

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/7/2007 6:50:59 PM

anvl

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An interesting division between Southern Europe and Northern,, The germanic Countries vs the Latin ones. It seems this happens quite often in other areas as well,, Art and Art history as well,, even in my craft.

I too tried to model this in H&M2 etc,, I used the smaller ground scale\hex,, and added 3lb guns to the regiments, but it didn't work due to the problems with artillery in the game

anvil

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/7/2007 8:07:28 PM

I�aki Harrizabalagatar

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quote:

An interesting division between Southern Europe and Northern,, The germanic Countries vs the Latin ones. It seems this happens quite often in other areas as well,, Art and Art history as well,, even in my craft.

At the time it was not so much Germanic vs Latin as Cold Blood vs Hot Blood infantry. Frecnh were consider hot blood, lacking discipline and poorly drilled, but able to deliver irresistible charges (and to rout instantly if unsuccesful). De Saxe famously remarked that the French remained what they were at the time of Caesar, that is, Gallic warriors with tremendous elan but poor discipline. This kind of "national character" was a kind of XVIII century substitute for Army doctrine, hot blood infantry was supposed to go for cold steel as soon as possible, while cold blood infantry would engage in ranged fire delivering controlled volleys.
Armies try to mix thgose 2 kinds of infantry and to use them for their intended role, for instance Magyar regiments in Austrian service were considered hot blood, soldiers carried a sword and regiments were whenever possible used to assault enemy positions. Likewise, French Army used Swiss regiments to provide a steady line for the routed troops to retreat behind, like they did at Rossbach.
A list of "national characters"
Hot Blood
Spanish
French
Magyar
Highlanders
Polish
Irish

Cold Blood
Germans
Dutch
English
Russians
Swedish

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/7/2007 9:01:31 PM

MacDuff

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Magnus, Tim, Anvil,

I finally made it on.

I'm finishing up an experimental scenario in PG - company level with a different treatment of bn guns. Essentially, the guns fire in the infantry firing phases. I also have larger calibre batteries that fire in the normal bombardment turn. I've also tweaked unit criteria (they don't disrupt as much, but they do rout more often.

I should finish it this weekend. Is it possible to in this forum, or elsewhere?

Rick

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RE: Battalion Guns - 2/8/2007 5:35:51 PM

anvl

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Hey Rick!!

Good to hear from you.. Looking foreward to what ya done

anvil

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