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RE: Italians really suck - 2/18/2007 11:52:22 PM   
Mac67

 

Posts: 496
Joined: 3/7/2006
From: Essex, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mau Fox

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac67

Well i guess its historicial, the Italians did suck in real life!


Now cut it down guys. Ok?

Let's keep this a game.




Just pointing out a fact. The Italian military did not fare too well during WW2. Now, I think that the reputation that the Italian soldiers have for being cowardly fighters is unjust. The blame for them not being more successful is more likely down to bad leadership and the fact that they were not as well equiped as other armies of the day.

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Post #: 31
RE: Italians really suck - 2/19/2007 12:46:57 AM   
Mau Fox


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Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac67
Just pointing out a fact. The Italian military did not fare too well during WW2. Now, I think that the reputation that the Italian soldiers have for being cowardly fighters is unjust. The blame for them not being more successful is more likely down to bad leadership and the fact that they were not as well equiped as other armies of the day.


I am fine with pointing out facts.

It's the way people uses to point out that makes me bored.

Now, your way it's a little bit better.

(in reply to Mac67)
Post #: 32
RE: Italians really suck - 2/19/2007 2:19:08 AM   
dudalb_slith

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
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quote:

Goin back even further, Libyan rebels also kicked their butts for awhile in the late 20s and early 30s. The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.


Thye actually made a movie called "Lion Of The Desert" about this ,with Anthony Quinn as the Libyan leader and Oliver Reed as Graziani (yup, the same one who did not exactly cover himself in glory in WW2) , and a rather Hammy Rod Steiger as Mussolini.I am not sure about it total accuracy,but the battle scenes are impressive.It is availbale on DVD.
The Ethiopians also gave the Italians a rought time,despite the fact the Italians were much better armed then the Ethopians. So it's no wonder the Italians did so poorlyagainst the Brits who were much better armed than the Italians.
It's not a question of courage..the Italians fought very well in World War 1 (at one time against a young German Officer named Rommel,ironically enough),but Mussolini flooded the Italian army with Fascist polticals appontees (something Hitler,crazy as he was,knew better..at least at first..then to do) and the quality of the Italian army went downhill fast.
Add to the fact their equipment was vastly inferior in the Allies..in armor particularly,the officers and the men had a huge gap between them.(the enlisted men, quite rightly,had little faith in their officers),and it's no wonder the Italians ..with some notable exceptions(the Ariete Armor unit in particular)..did so poorly in WW2.
Rommel himself was shocked at the decline he noted in the Italian Military .


< Message edited by dudalb -- 2/19/2007 2:33:41 AM >

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Post #: 33
RE: Italians really suck - 2/19/2007 8:23:55 AM   
The Almighty Turtle

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		OK Than, I must say that the Italians can kick ass, like against the Yugoslavians, and I have handed the Russians their asses preeettty much every single time I have played against them. But after Italy joins the Allies in 1943 and get rid of the old fascist "Italian" (coughcoughgermancoughcough) army and start getting equipment from the Western Allies, quality starts going uphill fast.

But as for Lion of the Desert, I have seen it too. As for its "total accuracy," you can stop being sure. It is not. At all. Thee film was in effect the propaganda film of Colonel Gaddafi's little smearjob of the Italians and glorification of the Libyans. Several of the scenes are blatant lies in order to smear Italy (which the high Colonel harbors a particular hatred of) and to make the Libyans look akin to the French or Danish resistance.

Don't buy that. The Libyans were fierce fighters, but as far as I have studied, I have found a grand total of 27+ battles, raids, or skirmishes of all sizes that they won. By any measure (counting both Pyrrhic Italian and Pyrrhic Rebel victories in the Libyan side.) There are undoubtably more, but for the most part, the Italians smashed the rebels when they got their heads out of their caves, and the reason they lasted as long as they did is mainly because they had better knowledge of the terrain and thus could melt into the background.

A great deal of the cause of the decline was because Hitler was afraid that Italians (who were less than pleased with his puppet the Moose) would revolt once armed and trained, and thus he STUFFED the ranks with German "advisers" into the ranks and mainly sent the actual Italians into the Eastern Front, where it was judged less likely for them to run off and join the other side.

This situation, while quite far from ideal, was still in all likelihood salvageable, but Mussolini made things even worse: he decreed that the Germans in the "Italian" army were to speak Italian and ONLY Italian, that only Italian weapons were to be used, and that most of the officers were to be Italian (and those guys were, as somebody pointed out, like the NKVD or the German command in the early years of the war save for some few but noticeable exceptions)

And since the Germans made up at LEAST slightly more than half of the Army fighting the Western Allies, and since their own command treated them like trash, well, the result is collapse and implosion.

Just my Two Cents.

(in reply to dudalb_slith)
Post #: 34
RE: Italians really suck - 2/19/2007 4:11:41 PM   
Nikademus


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From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Nikademus,

So you wouldn't have a problem manually setting a USMC core to 50 and then starting a thread called "USMC Really Sucks"?


If I wrote it the way Robot did.....nope.


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Post #: 35
RE: Italians really suck - 2/19/2007 4:23:34 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'll top your "USMC sucks at 50 thread" and do a "USMC sucks at 25" thread!

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Post #: 36
RE: Italians really suck - 2/20/2007 3:17:29 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'll top your "USMC sucks at 50 thread" and do a "USMC sucks at 25" thread!


Hey, mister, if a marine's gonna suck, he will do it better than anyone else. Besides, at 25, they are ALL gonna suck.

What kind of campaign would that be? "Let's see who can run away from each other the quickest". Italians vs French, yeah, that would do it. However, a cooking contest between the two would be quite interesting. Yum yum. " I will defeat your shrimp linguini with a cream-cheese and strawberry-filled croissant!"


< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/20/2007 3:37:06 AM >

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Post #: 37
RE: Italians really suck - 2/20/2007 7:08:28 AM   
The Almighty Turtle

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Actually, Erwin, at 25 they all do nothing, as the quality only goes down to 30. Shame on you for not knowing that.

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Post #: 38
RE: Italians really suck - 2/20/2007 1:05:01 PM   
The Almighty Turtle

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Oh yes, and I almost forgot, on you too, Terminus, as you started this. A pox on both your houses for upsetting the almighty god of SPWAW.

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Post #: 39
RE: Italians really suck - 2/20/2007 3:33:44 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Pffffft sideways to you...

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Post #: 40
RE: Italians really suck - 2/21/2007 4:09:17 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Ratings CAN go lower than 25 with historical ratings turned on, and who ARE you? A real newbie, or a veteran denizen posting under a new name?

OK, I checked out your history. It would've been nice if you'd given us an introduction, but it seems you prefer to remain anonymous. That's your perogative.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/21/2007 4:28:30 AM >

(in reply to The Almighty Turtle)
Post #: 41
RE: Italians really suck - 2/22/2007 8:19:16 AM   
The Almighty Turtle

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Ohtay than, so I DID overlook that point, so point taken. The Almighty God of SPWAW is probably going to try to kill me /.
But anyway, I am what you would call a longtime viewer short-time caller, at least in regards to the game for the former and the thread in the later. I have seen more than my fair share of battle, fighting in North Africa, the Balkans, Italy, South America, the Far East, the Middle East, the Ukraine, the frozen lands of Finland, the countryside of Norway, the bitter rocks of a few damned butt ugly rocks in the Pacific, The jungles of Indochina, the railways and coasts of China, War-torn Spain, the hedges of France and the Low Countries, and the freezing tundra of Russia.

I have fought the Partisans in the Balkans, the Poles in Poland (well duh), the Germans... pretty much everywhere, the Japanese on said ugly godforsaken rocks, the Spaniards in Spain, the NorKs in well... Korea, the Chinese ALSO in Korea and in China, the VietMihn in Indochina (where they took out their own dear leader Ho Chi Mihn in the opening arty barrage of the battle for Dien Bien Phu) the Moroccans rebels (or Rif) in Morocco, the Thais in a small village somewhere in Indochina, the Rush-Hour traffic here in the People's Republik of Kalifornia, a mob of Rioter-cum-Revolutionary Miners in Coal Country,and the Russians.... ALSO pretty much everywhere.

I have fought many battles, won many battles, and lost more than a few battles (usually due to the #*()@ %&@ exit hex jobs), and sometimes I have managed (again,usually due to the #*()@ %&@ exit hex jobs)to sometimes only draw. I have many ideas for scenarios, and none of the brainpower to make anything due to the #@%@#% Editor. I have also found a way to solve the problems of Megacampaign incompatabilities (you go into the Megacampaign folder, you find where the scenarios for said MC are, you than copy the scenarios into your normal scenario holder and edit out the issues.)

I am also been known to defeat myself by shooting to many tanks, thus causing a blackout/crash, and forcing me to redo whatever battle I had been doing (or the whole damn MC if I am playing a MC.)

But enough about me, lets talk about the topic.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 42
RE: Italians really suck - 2/22/2007 5:05:26 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		have you fought the Black Knight?



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Post #: 43
RE: Italians really suck - 2/22/2007 10:33:05 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That wouldn't prove much; he's a push-over. Just chop his arms and legs off, and that's it.

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Post #: 44
RE: Italians really suck - 2/23/2007 5:31:25 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		he'll still knaw your kneecaps off!

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Post #: 45
RE: Italians really suck - 2/23/2007 6:45:52 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		I've 'had at him'.

I only managed to give him a scratch. Just a flesh wound.



Goblin

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Post #: 46
RE: Italians really suck - 2/23/2007 11:00:22 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

he'll still knaw your kneecaps off!


That's spelled with a "g", you ninny! "Gnaw", not "Knaw"!

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Post #: 47
RE: Italians really suck - 2/23/2007 11:23:19 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		ah go back to Denmark and play with your tinker toy tanks



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Post #: 48
RE: Italians really suck - 2/23/2007 11:34:31 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I don't have to "go back to Denmark". I'm IN Denmark, you ninny...

And at the moment, I'm playing with tinker toy ships, so pfffft...

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Post #: 49
RE: Italians really suck - 2/23/2007 11:49:28 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		no...your in Africa......playing with your rubber duckies.

and btw....FIX THE BUGS!

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Post #: 50
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