RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat - Cross of Iron >> RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price.

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RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 5:00:10 AM

Doggie

Posts: 3244
Joined: 9/19/2001
From: Under the porch
Status: offline

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.

_____________________________

Visit the New, Improved Mad Dog's Drive Thru

(in reply to Shaun Wallace)

Post #: 61

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 6:29:31 AM

Randall Grubb

Posts: 80
Joined: 4/6/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: old man of the sea

What I do know is marketing to the US Army/Marine Corps/ USAF/US NAVY/law enforcement/corrections at federal/state/local/municipal level. It is not who you know, it is what you have. Knowing who the right people are helps, but having what they need is much more important. It is much harder than making games. Much much harder.

Check it out http://vice.d-a-s.com

E

I hear ya, dude.

Add to your list: What you said during a casual conversation, you might be able to do if certain programming ideas work out , only to do have them come back to you six months later demanding to know why it is not a feature. And it was never even in SOW!

My signature is not just an idle quote.

< Message edited by Senior Drill -- 3/10/2007 6:47:46 AM >

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. - Pierre Bosquet, 1854

(in reply to old man of the sea)

Post #: 62

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 6:38:32 AM

Randall Grubb

Posts: 80
Joined: 4/6/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.

Hey Dog!

I'm gonna send Sissy a link to this post! That stoggie old soc is gonna love it! I bet he sides with Shaun! Hahahaha! He Wack!

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. - Pierre Bosquet, 1854

(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 63

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 8:27:42 AM

David Heath

Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.

Doggie

Shaun doesn't have a soul...... so its no problem

_____________________________

(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 64

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 12:47:07 PM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I am highly suspicious about any game that takes aeons to find a publisher outside it's home country (and is pretty much in development for aeons itself), like TOW.

The game is already released in Russian market and just being tweaked at Battlefront. I watched some movies of actual gameplay, the journalist (German) changed the tone of his voice from exciment lol
The Russians are getting big time in the game market, they have learned a lot. Heroes 5, Rig'n'Roll, and this game, all quality titles. Before when somebody mentioned Russian made game I knew that something in the game will be screwed up. Heroes 5 for example made by Nival is fantastic game, I can object only some minor things like when you click with a right mouse button you don't get info on terrain cost or when you initally choose heroes you cannot see their stats and specility clicking on right mouse button which would be cool not to memorize abbilities of certain heroes. And that's it. Maybe there is more. But they made a fantastic 3D engine, this is first Heroes game that even nVidia recognized and bundled with GF7900GS graphic cards. Interface is also good and after a while 3D doesn't make much problems only minor (camera etc...).
So Russians are coming big time into game dev. Heroes 5 in fact can be compared with Medieval 2: Total War as far as production value goes and state of the finished game.

Also must mention my friends at Akella (and say hello to Dmitry Arkhipov). They are also great developers and I am having a high hopes for their Disciples 3 and outsourced Jagged Alliance 3
http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/jagged_alliance_3

Mario

< Message edited by Monkeys Brain -- 3/10/2007 1:07:56 PM >

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)

Post #: 65

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 1:12:44 PM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity

They should *develop* games, period. Not for the good of humanity, but for the hard cash. The key word here is *develop*, though, not copy paste someone else's 8 year old code, and call that "development".

They say they know how to develop their own ideas and their own code - I say nice, we'll see, but so far we've seen none of that.

_____________________________

(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 66

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 1:14:21 PM

Shaun Wallace

Posts: 819
Joined: 3/23/2001
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Hey Dog!

I'm gonna send Sissy a link to this post! That stoggie old soc is gonna love it! I bet he sides with Shaun! Hahahaha! He Wack!

Nah, Sissy will disagree with both of us and explain why we are both wrong due to both Liberals and Neo-Cons etc being part of the exisiting regime and post a link to proof of us really being on the same side

Then post a huge post explaining the conspiracy behind the Wests exploitation of everone else in the world etc etc etc .............

quote:

Shaun doesn't have a soul...... so its no problem

LOL, I did, just went over to the Dark side ;) Simple- The bad guys ALWAYS have the best bloody uniforms, look at the Germans and the Brits? Romans and Everyone else? The Empire and Rebels? Caveat to that: Not sure what happened to the USSR in that ;)

Sulla

_____________________________

Nec amicus officium nec hostis iniuriam mihi intulit, quo in toto non reddidi. - Sulla
----------------------
http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/portal.php

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)

Post #: 67

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 1:19:02 PM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.

A lame attempt to be cynical...

I bet that you don't know how many games have sank selling 3000 copies. And team of 20 people worked on that game. Now take just salaries into account. So I should have rather called them "Good Samaritians" and their Japanese investors hehe.

The risk in the game called CoI I think it is not that big. Simtek
is not that big studio (also don't know but just guess).

Is graphic dept. there maybe 20 people?

So nobody is arguing that profit is bad, quite contrary. But people will vote with their dollar, me included.

Nowadays game development is quite expensive, imagine how much number of copies even big guys must sell to just break even. So nothing is guaranteed. Imagine cost to produce mainstream game 5000000 $. Yes, 5 million. Now divide this with number of copies you must sell.
So actually wargaming development is maybe not so nerve racking like maybe some other.

Mario

< Message edited by Monkeys Brain -- 3/10/2007 1:35:59 PM >

(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 68

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 2:55:40 PM

ezzler

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

Cost of purchase IS a factor.. especially on a re release.

I Can afford $40 but the question is WILL I.

I have had cc 1 2 3 + 4 in the past. What will I get now. How many of the scenarios will I go .. OH yeah , I remember how to do this one...?

Even If I dont remember , or they are all new engagements I HAVE ALREADY PLAYED THE GAME> PLAYED IT A LOT>

Its not a new experience.

As for you shouldn't compare a TOTAL WAR type game to a pure wargame , you miss the point MONKEYS BRAIN is making.
YOU are competing in a marketplace. An individual has a finite supply of cash to spend on a whole basketfull of products.

i have this month alone to consider Battlestaion Midway, UFO afterlight, defending the Reich , First eagles , Rome total war { now discounted}. { Paraworld , now seriously discounted} Silent Hunter 4 , Space empires 5.

Then I have to decide on FOF , GGWAW 2 ,{already heve 1 } TOAW 3 { already had it before}

Or save for guns of august , WIf , CAW etc

Or maybe i'll just buy Madden 07 or something light for the evening like ZOMBIE MALL KILLERS RETURN.

to buy them all costs...$ xx hundreds...

SO A CHOICE MUST BE MADE.

As someone at the start of this thread said reduce the price and sell more , and was killed statisically with fractions of a sale per person vs development costs etc.

Missing the point again.

i have the funds, i have played board wargames since the 80's and computer wargames since Harpoon one on 5.25 inch floppys, and I could buy this game.

But i won't .. for all of the above reasons , and the fact that I have only a limited amount of time to play now.

If it was 'buy Cross of Iron + get Bombing the Reich 1/2 price I might be more tempted'

As it is NWS have supremacy at sea looming and the Birth of America ACW game is very tempting for next month..

However

The marketplace is calling TODAY

Now , where's my credit card , i feel an urge to battle the forces of Pompey at Pharsalus...

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)

Post #: 69

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 4:24:34 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions like this. People like to complain about prices, apparently, but sometimes you get the feeling that people think someone is forcibly taking their money away. It's a choice and we're comfortable with some people deciding that $39.99 is too much. However, let's be honest at the same time.

$39.99 is not a "high" price for wargames, nor is it too high a price for an improved re-release of a classic wargame that was out of print and selling for $100+ on E-Bay just a short while ago. Anyone who reads through the developers notes on the changes (pinned to the top of this forum) should understand that a lot of new development time went into this title and although we always said it was a re-release, it is definitely improved and has new content. Despite being up front about this being a re-release, some folks seem to have gotten confused and are judging it as if we called it CC6. We did not and never marketed it as such. Could we have priced it lower? Yes, but considerations for future development did play a role. We felt that the difference between say $29.99 and $39.99 was the future for CC6 and beyond.

The entire purpose of this release was to bring the community a "deluxe" re-release of CC that was friendly with the newer OSes, had great mods and a multiplayer campaign system and the various improvements that had been made for the military since it was last on the market. Those are not small or minor changes - for a "re-release", that's a lot of extra value and that's the context within which the price was chosen. We previewed this release to several veteran CC gamers before release and all felt it was worth the price once they were familiar with the features.

A lot of gamers would have been willing to pay $40 on E-Bay for another copy of CC if they had lost theirs. If someone had put a copy of CC on E-Bay that had all these improvements, what would it have sold for, I wonder?

I regret each lost sale, but since it's a matter of free choice and most people are talking about a difference of $10 (i.e. "$30 would be fine, but $40? WAY too much!"), I just don't understand the degree of some of the upset over this. It's a fair price - we're not asking for $100 or something like that - and everyone should educate themselves on what's in the package and decide if it's worth their money. That's how the market works, that's how we expect it to work - you don't have to buy the game if you don't feel it's worth it to you, but lots of folks do think it's worthwhile and the more that do, frankly the better CC6 will be.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to ezzler)

Post #: 70

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 5:06:40 PM

GoodGuy

Posts: 1506
Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Cologne, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

.....we always said it was a re-release

Yes, no doubt. I don't see why Oleg acts as if customers would be tricked into buying an alleged "new game" which is in fact a re-release, and where really everyone knew that it would be a re-release.

I for one am getting excited when thinking about a possible release of a new (real) sequel in this series. Are there any rough schedules/estimates on when we can expect to see some previews, screenshot, dev diaries or anything like that?

_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne
---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 71

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 5:07:19 PM

old man of the sea

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: Waynesboro, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

$39.99 is not a "high" price for wargames, nor is it too high a price for an improved re-release of a classic wargame that was out of print and selling for $100+ on E-Bay just a short while ago.

To tell you the truth, I was expecting a higher price tag, like $49.99. I think you are giving them a break.

E

_____________________________

"Point me to a 'civilised' part of the General Forum and I'll steer way clear of it." - Soddball

Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 72

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 5:09:11 PM

Prince of Eckm�hl

Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions like this.

Geez, where, other than the internet? I don't see folks standing outside of grocery stores or Best Buy with signs protesting the price of groceries or music CDs.

Forums like this one can be a great means of disseminating information about a product like CoI. And I believe that the public benefits from open criticism of games. Given that game reviews are so tainted by cronyism and conflicts of interest, how else can a would-be game buyer make an informed decision about what to buy and what to beget?

It's also true, however, that the proper and worthwhile purpose of these groups can be subverted, either by a developer/publisher and their surrogates attempting to suppress "bad-news" about a buggy, unstable POS, or by a good-old-fashioned troll who's just trying to pound the readership senseless with one specious assertion after another.

And the motives behind the pathology that can grip a thread like this one are fairly transparent. Some folks who sell games are just unethical, so much so that that they're willing to foist off junk on the public. Likewise, trolls troll, "Can I rattle their cage just one more time, get 'em to rear-up at me again?" They have nothing meaningful to add to the discussion. They just get off on being disruptive.

What's going on with this whole "price" thang? Well, ladies and gentlemen...I think...that 's for you all to decide, but IMO, it seems pretty obvious.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 73

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 6:39:30 PM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes, but considerations for future development did play a role. We felt that the difference between say $29.99 and $39.99 was the future for CC6 and beyond.

One reason I was quite happy to pay it. And like Eric, I was expecting $49.99 (and would have paid that as well).

But, playing Devil's Advocate a little;

quote:

Despite being up front about this being a re-release, some folks seem to have gotten confused and are judging it as if we called it CC6. We did not and never marketed it as such.

No, but you didn't call it 'Close Combat 3: The Russian Front', either. Or even 'Close Combat 3: The Russian Front - Gold Edition' or similar. While you were most certainly 'up front' as to what is was, at least some minimal research on the part of the punter was necessary to discover same. I think such 'confusion' can be forgiven to some extent.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 74

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 7:24:13 PM

LitFuel

Posts: 272
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

I just don't get the posts that slam the price...I mean what's your point?...don't buy it then and move on, no one is forcing you to do anything. You just seem to want to complain for the sake of it. I think what the problem is that you really want to buy it but are to cheap to fork up the extra $10 or $15 that's your choice and not anyone else's fault. If the other games are so great why arn't out playing them and instead here bitching about the price? No one owes you discounts for being cheap or deciding you want to buy other games instead. The price is reasonable but some of you are not, plain and simple.

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 75

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 8:32:45 PM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy
Yes, no doubt. I don't see why Oleg acts as if customers would be tricked into buying an alleged "new game" which is in fact a re-release, and where really everyone knew that it would be a re-release.

There is obviously some misunderstanding here. I did my best to avoid discussing price altogether - personally I am happier with 70$ WITP, and would gladly pay 200$ for it, than I was with some 15$ games. Then again I've been pleasantly surprised with some 19$ games and even 9,99$ mini masterpieces like Defcon. There are no clear rules, but if I love the game I'd gladly pay a massive price, monthy subscription, whatever, you name it. When a product stinks (as CoI does IMO) I will passionately speak my mind, *regardless* of the price. In fact if you owned CC3 then a 2$ for CoI is probably too much, but I am happy leaving price-demand issues to good ole capitalist market economy

My main problem with CC is that certain group of people got hold of code for this cult game(s) and many months after they got the code they still haven't done anything visible with what they got. We are still waiting for something substantial to happen, and there is nothing on the horizon (except some empty promises). Apparently, we will have to wait many months perhaps even years before we really see something NEW going on here, and I find that very disappointing.

_____________________________

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Post #: 76

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 8:34:15 PM

ezzler

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

Whats the point?

Well feedback for one.

You bought it , you're happy , good for you.

I didn't but i MIGHT , and it seems some others would also.

I am not demanding a price cut or even a detailed explanation of unit costs, marketing costs , developer costs and future development plans.

I, for one, am just getting a message across. I PROBABLY won't pay $40 for a game I have already played. Not this one and NOT SEVERAL other tempting titles in the MATRIX list of up and comming.

I definately will pay $40+ for WIF , LOCK n LOAD , Guns of August.

I have paid $40 { or whatever it was }for Crown of glory and titans of steel and although they probably only got about 10 hours play combined I don't feel cheated.
{ well maybe on titans }

There was ample opportunity to check the games out in Forums like these.

So the point is .....

Maybe in the Future there is some scope for putting Re-relases out at a different price band or double package or money off the NEXT in the series,or many of the multitude of other marketing options then fine it would be of intrest to me.

If on the other hand Matrix is happy , and everyone who buys it is happy and there are plenty of dollars rolling in then just ignore me ,, but at least Matrix knows the possibilities even if doesn't agree.

With plenty of re releases out and in the bag , and i see this 'is it value for money post ' running on 2 threads here on this game alone it should at least cause some to have pause for thought.

(in reply to LitFuel)

Post #: 77

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/10/2007 8:44:34 PM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LitFuel

I just don't get the posts that slam the price...I mean what's your point?...don't buy it then and move on, no one is forcing you to do anything. You just seem to want to complain for the sake of it. I think what the problem is that you really want to buy it but are to cheap to fork up the extra $10 or $15 that's your choice and not anyone else's fault. If the other games are so great why arn't out playing them and instead here bitching about the price? No one owes you discounts for being cheap or deciding you want to buy other games instead. The price is reasonable but some of you are not, plain and simple.

Well, you are not right. Gentlemen called eez have put it quite right and I applaude to such posts.

But again in one thing you are right - discussion at this point is pointless so I will stop it right here. Fanboyism is good to a certain degree until it starts to slam posters for anything they say (well how dare they!). I've seen this on Paradox Forum where I complained about the lack of all package sprites in HoI 2.
Few years fast forward those creeps at Paradox still didn't released all sprites but some fans have made some but still there is not full package of sprites (I guss it takes much work).
But full division of angry fans jumped on me how I dare to criticize Paradox Interactive and main argument of them was "I play with counters". Now when fans made some sprites same people applaude them. /they made it for free, thing that paradox should made and not expect fans to made.

Nobody is "bitching" about 10$ and you didn't take the full point here. It's about principle and nobody is complaining just for the sake of complaining. If you want to shut up all dissent or rightfully complaints go ahead, be my guest, but that is really last think I would do.

And you are also right in one more thing, I am off to play fantastic MTW 2. And what is trolling, telling your own opinion on some things that is trolling? lol
For what is worth I at least have something to say. As I don't like discussion that are moving into circles and especially when strong arguments are just jumped over or ignored I say cheers and move on.

So, cheers.

Mario

(in reply to LitFuel)

Post #: 78

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 12:26:02 AM

Doggie

Posts: 3244
Joined: 9/19/2001
From: Under the porch
Status: offline

quote:

My main problem with CC is that certain group of people got hold of code for this cult game(s) and many months after they got the code they still haven't done anything visible with what they got.

Pardon, but if they did "anything visable" with it, it wouldn't be Close Combat, would it?

The game is advertised as Close Combat, Cross of Iron. Sounds simple enough to me. Close Combat aint Grand Theft Auto. It appeals to a limited market. If Matrix could count on selling ten million copies then the cost per unit would come down substantially. I'm guessing they might sell a few thousand units; not a few million. And all the people who worked on it got to get paid. Some more than others. David Heath is greedy corporate mogul, so he gets more. Shaun might get a green card if he behaves himself. He wants more, he needs to go stand out in front of Home Depot with the rest of the foriegners. Once he learns to speak proper English, he'll have more job opportunities.

There's not even a guarantee they'll break even. Ask Eric Young about the project he sank a couple of years into which tanked. Can't even remember the name of it. People have been asking for a new Close Combat game for years. Mister Heath gives it to you, and all you do is bitch. I'd like to see Matrix Games on the discount shelf at Best Buy, but I understand how the Matrix staff don't want to be out in Times Square selling rubbers so they can afford to ship thousands of DVDs all over the country.

One thing that might be worthwhile is re-releasing all the previous Close Combat titles. Speaking for myself, I'm tired of seeing new games that require more and more computer power. I think people are getting tired of having to upgrade their computer every time a new game comes out. I really don't care that much about stunning graphics; I want the game to be interesting and run smoothly without me having to get new graphics cards and memory chips just so I can see every drop of gore in high definition.

And when are you clowns going to offer me a job writing stuff for you? I am the author of the Idiot's Guide to Installing GJS, or did you forget? Harummff!

_____________________________

Visit the New, Improved Mad Dog's Drive Thru

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)

Post #: 79

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 12:41:40 AM

Terl

Posts: 609
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Nicely said, Doggie.

I agree with others who have said this so succinctly.... your choice, don't like the price don't buy it.

(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 80

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 12:57:04 AM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Pardon, but if they did "anything visable" with it, it wouldn't be Close Combat, would it?

LOL of course it would be. This series evolved over 5 somewhat different games. There was even 6th game but I think it was an FPS and basically CC in name only (Close Combat First to Fight, it was post-Atomic). Then there are Eric Young's projects which would probably be called CC if he had the rights/licence to the CC franchise.

Anyhow, obviously some sort of "visible improvement" is possible while maintaining the overall CC theme and feel otherwise there would not be 5, 6 or 7 CCs made.

The devs do say there WILL be CC6, and they promise we "will be shocked" when it's released, so apparently they too think something visible can be done (the questions are when and how).

quote:

There's not even a guarantee they'll break even.

Honestly, with something as poor as this, who says they deserve to break even?

quote:

Ask Eric Young about the project he sank a couple of years into which tanked. Can't even remember the name of it.

I know all about it, in as much as could be known without hacking into people's private forums

I still remember Sulla fighting the hordes of unwashed naysayers on GIC forums, alone, and pretty much dying alone (metaphorically speaking of course), when the game "tanked" as you say. (I didn't post back then but had boatloads of fun just lurking on GIC forums.) Freedom games, was that the name of the company?

quote:

People have been asking for a new Close Combat game for years. Mister Heath gives it to you, and all you do is bitch.

This is NOT a "new" CC game, period. If this is a new game then Mr. Shakespeare has a new book released these days (I hear there's Hamlet translation planned in Uzbekistan - surely that qualifies as "new" book?)

quote:

One thing that might be worthwhile is re-releasing all the previous Close Combat titles.

Perhaps, unless it would be used as an excuse to delay REAL improvements even more.

< Message edited by Oleg Mastruko -- 3/11/2007 1:19:20 AM >

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(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 81

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 1:38:44 AM

LitFuel

Posts: 272
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

quote:

ORIGINAL: LitFuel

I just don't get the posts that slam the price...I mean what's your point?...don't buy it then and move on, no one is forcing you to do anything. You just seem to want to complain for the sake of it. I think what the problem is that you really want to buy it but are to cheap to fork up the extra $10 or $15 that's your choice and not anyone else's fault. If the other games are so great why arn't out playing them and instead here bitching about the price? No one owes you discounts for being cheap or deciding you want to buy other games instead. The price is reasonable but some of you are not, plain and simple.

Well, you are not right. Gentlemen called eez have put it quite right and I applaude to such posts.

But again in one thing you are right - discussion at this point is pointless so I will stop it right here. Fanboyism is good to a certain degree until it starts to slam posters for anything they say (well how dare they!). I've seen this on Paradox Forum where I complained about the lack of all package sprites in HoI 2.
Few years fast forward those creeps at Paradox still didn't released all sprites but some fans have made some but still there is not full package of sprites (I guss it takes much work).
But full division of angry fans jumped on me how I dare to criticize Paradox Interactive and main argument of them was "I play with counters". Now when fans made some sprites same people applaude them. /they made it for free, thing that paradox should made and not expect fans to made.

Nobody is "bitching" about 10$ and you didn't take the full point here. It's about principle and nobody is complaining just for the sake of complaining. If you want to shut up all dissent or rightfully complaints go ahead, be my guest, but that is really last think I would do.

And you are also right in one more thing, I am off to play fantastic MTW 2. And what is trolling, telling your own opinion on some things that is trolling? lol
For what is worth I at least have something to say. As I don't like discussion that are moving into circles and especially when strong arguments are just jumped over or ignored I say cheers and move on.

So, cheers.

Mario

What strong arguments?...I haven't heard anything yet...and yes people were bitching about $10. What principal?...we arn't talking about fighting for human rights here it's just a game you can't afford it...so deal with it. It's amazing when people don't get their way how they just find every excuse in the book to blame someone...anyone, but themselves. There is oh about 100 or so other games on the market right now who are way overpriced then CC for what you get in time played, enjoyment, mods etc.....why don't you go pick on them. You know I'm right or you wouldn't even be on here complaining. have you been on Ebay lately?...CC3 is still going for large amounts and I've noticed the others have all of sudden increased in value too...why?..because it's worth it and it hasn't stayed alive for 10 years for nothing....if it's not to you then I respect your choice but it is your choice. Why ruin others fun?

Oleg,

Dude, I won't even go there, the more I read the more your grudge against the makers stands out like a sore thumb...I have no idea why and I don't care. Going through life bitter is not good for your health

. Take a happy pill will ya

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)

Post #: 82

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 1:50:38 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

Just for the record, I spoke with Shaun on the phone once, and he came across as very friendly and helpful (that was a few years ago). Of course, I'm a sucker for a British accent, even though Shaun admitted he wasn't a big Stones fan.

(in reply to Shaun Wallace)

Post #: 83

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 1:58:28 AM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Mister Heath gives it to you, and all you do is bitch.

No. I for myself am not bitching. BTW, that is stupid term in itself because bitch is bitching and I just said what are my principles. And man without principles deserve to be pissed on his face. Not literally but they get that other way LOL

I was in fact quite enthusiastic about CC: CoI. If they drope the price to quite fair 29.95$ then my credit card is ready. I am not deflating the value of actual product to make myself clear. You can call on help from all Gods from Olymp and make a remake of CC but if it is recycled code (most of it) then I put it in category 19.95$ to 29.99$ top. Or you can pretend that textures were made by Picasso, I couldn't care less.

Now consider me a fan of Close Combat as I am fan of all good games and that opinion my friend is worthwhile. If me as a fan don't want to pay the price then some not so big fans will not want it even more. So that is lost sale. Clear lost sale.

So no mystery tales. I as a fan have not obligation to buy anything. In fact when I was younger I would not think this way but as you get older you also get colder, like a star heh.

And about not breaking even... As I told you there are games that have been in development for two years, and 20 people sunk enormous hard work into it. So I as a wargamer shoul shed a tear on wargames that sunk but would have to be apathetic at some mainstream games that sank. Yeah. Down with so called elitism. In fact even a mainstream games could be then "elitism". That status can reach many games but not too many. There are games that in fact reached that status and mostly it is games that play right. Or have some trace of endless replayability as chess. Be it Archon, Jagged Alliance 2, Civilization, Panzer General 2, MTW 2, and yes even Close Combat.

But new and entirely new product has new code, new graphics and others stuff - not nececary idea. See Jagged Alliance 3 - unfortunately Sir Tech is defunct (great developers btw) and now some Russian team is making JA 3. Would they follow the old vision and make a great game, I doubt but we will see. Nival have succeded in making a great Heroes games - I was sceptical but I am giving them a credit for good work. They had big respect to NWC legacy that for sure.

More verbage for a night birds hehe.

Mario

(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 84

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 2:07:08 AM

Shaun Wallace

Posts: 819
Joined: 3/23/2001
From: UK
Status: offline

Whoa,

Doggie and me on the same side again, (gadzooks!)

Oleg, you are making some pretty sweeping statements about which you seem to think a very small bit of knowledge equates to the whole picture. As with most things conclusions drawn from small scraps of info which is all you have are leading you to the wrong conclusions.

Yes, I was involved in GIC and EYSA. (Glad you seemed to have so much fun at what we were trying to achieve there!)

quote:

LOL of course it would be. This series evolved over 5 somewhat different games. There was even 6th game but I think it was an FPS and basically CC in name only (Close Combat First to Fight, it was post-Atomic). Then there are Eric Young's projects which would probably be called CC if he had the rights/licence to the CC franchise.

Anyhow, obviously some sort of "visible improvement" is possible while maintaining the overall CC theme and feel otherwise there would not be 5, 6 or 7 CCs made.

The devs do say there WILL be CC6, and they promise we "will be shocked" when it's released, so apparently they too think something visible can be done (the questions are when and how).

Oleg, you seem very bitter about something, not sure what, I have known you around the forums CC/CM/GIC/EYSA/Matric for a long time. If you find what we doing to be so bad then please be my guest and don't let the door catch your butt on the way out. No one is holding you here against your will, well aprt from you that is. Yes we are still trying to improve CC and having the code (which YOU seem in itself is wrong) have done much and intend to do more. Do I care if you believe me? Nope! Do I care that when its released the CC Fans will be pleased, you betcha! Oleg, I have better things to do than listen to you bitch on and on about how bad we all are and how we are all exploiting poor old you.

quote:

Honestly, with something as poor as this, who says they deserve to break even?

We have a small dev team who have worked DAMN hard on CoI, military projects and continue to do so on CC6, you want to talk about not deserving to break even? You seem a small man intent on causing trouble, I actually expected better of somone who "purports" to be a journalist! I am sure your reviews and comments are totally unbiased! You have the right to come on here and post comments, but to disparage the efforts of myself, my team, Matrix, Eric Young and everyone else involved in working on CC now in in the recent past. If this is the BEST you have to offer, then please do not waste your precious time any further!

quote:

This is NOT a "new" CC game, period. If this is a new game then Mr. Shakespeare has a new book released these days (I hear there's Hamlet translation planned in Uzbekistan - surely that qualifies as "new" book?)

Maybe you think you write like Milton or Shakespeare in your native langauge but I assure you that you have issues with English as you fail to get what the wrod "re-release" means. Its been stated over and over again yet you still want to troll on and on.

I don't care what you think Oleg, you give me no reason to care. I do care for the CC Community having kept CSO online for 10 years, way before GIC and EYSA. You may be a demi-god in Croatia, but you are doing yourself no favors here and are coming across as a petty spiteful and ultimately innane individual. I thought the days of people like you were past, oh well.... I can live in hope.

Sulla

_____________________________

Nec amicus officium nec hostis iniuriam mihi intulit, quo in toto non reddidi. - Sulla
----------------------
http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/portal.php

(in reply to LitFuel)

Post #: 85

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 2:12:28 AM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

[/quote]

What strong arguments?...I haven't heard anything yet...and yes people were bitching about $10. What principal?...we arn't talking about fighting for human rights here it's just a game you can't afford it...so deal with it. It's amazing when people don't get their way how they just find every excuse in the book to blame someone...anyone, but themselves. There is oh about 100 or so other games on the market right now who are way overpriced then CC for what you get in time played, enjoyment, mods etc.....why don't you go pick on them. You know I'm right or you wouldn't even be on here complaining. have you been on Ebay lately?...CC3 is still going for large amounts and I've noticed the others have all of sudden increased in value too...why?..because it's worth it and it hasn't stayed alive for 10 years for nothing....if it's not to you then I respect your choice but it is your choice. Why ruin others fun?

Oleg,

Dude, I won't even go there, the more I read the more your grudge against the makers stands out like a sore thumb...I have no idea why and I don't care. Going through life bitter is not good for your health

. Take a happy pill will ya

[/quote]

LOL

First I have money to buy Close Combat: CoI.
LOL it would be quite stupid from me to say you how much money I have but let's say that I am not that poor - I buy games regulary.
This is a matter of principles do I need to draw you a picture? lol
I am sorry if you don't understand.

What other games are overpriced? And you are wrong, generally I am against of all overpriced games.

Spoiling others people's fun. Not my intention at all, when we finish this discussion I will pack it from here but not without answering, I cannot let you have the last word if you are plain wrong. This is feedback and not spoiling other's people's fun at all. Then here would be only happy fans and angels songs everywhere in the air. haha.

I am Close Combat fan that is a tragedy in whole story. But as I said man of principle must stand up in his principles and be a last standing there if nececary.

e-Bay argument is old like oldest living elephant on Earth. lol

First people are collectionaries. They like the smell of old National Geographic, of old tattered pages, yellow of passed times... They in fact like old times when they were younger and could drink more than now lol. So they pay FOR THAT GAME legendary game that was released in, I don't know 1998. 0r 1997. or whatever.

Find me a copy of C-64 game of Archon and I will gladly send you a 200 $. Get it?

But CC: CoI is just vampire that is gotten out from his tomb and got a new life. People have already played it, got almost same feeling out of that game. So you cannot charge it like all new game and pretend that history starts in 2007. For me not.

And BTW, if you cannot see arguments in my post I am sorry. What else to say. The Gods were putting you like uranium so if your logic center didn't come out good then it just didn't. I will not try to explain my thoughts on 33 pages.

Mario

< Message edited by Monkeys Brain -- 3/11/2007 2:28:49 AM >

(in reply to LitFuel)

Post #: 86

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 4:40:08 AM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

Shaun I guess I oughta be flattered as you called me by my name for like half a dozen times in your last post, but I am not really that important. Since when is this thread about me anyway?? I thought we were discussing a CC series? You still haven't provided any ballpark dates for CC6, let alone screenshots etc.

I am fine with that, but please don't try to mask the lack of data/plans and projections regarding CC6 by patronizing me.

Since your last post is so personalized and "Oleg-ized", let me give a brief list of Matrix Games related reviews I wrote thru the years:

UV 94% (2 pages); MA 81%; HTTR 94% (3 pages); EYSA 64%; KP 84% (2 pgs.); WITP 98% (5 pgs. - highest mark we ever gave to any game, and at 5 pgs. perhaps the biggest review of any Matrix game printed in any mag anywhere on the planet - this article is just so totally over the top in every imaginable aspect); FPG 86% (2 pgs.); GG WAW 93% (2 pgs.); COG 89% (2 pgs.); WPO 81%; TOAW3 84% (for old time's sake, and because Jamiam and Ralph are real nice gentlemen, although this was another poor re-release to be honest); COTA 92% (2 pgs.); GG WAW AWD 86%; and, yes, CC CoI 65% - so it is indeed my honest opinion CoI is a flop.

Yes, whole bunch of 90+ marks and except for 2 games all others in the 80+ range, as I am very passionate about wargaming and when I like the game I turn into an evangelist like you wouldn't believe.

Based on those shining marks I think anyone would have very hard time trying to prove some kind of anti-Matrix conspiracy is going on here.

Not only those scores are way WAY WAY WAY higher than MG products got elsewhere, most of those reviews are 2 page spreads, while the best Matrix can hope to get in the likes of Games for Windows or PC Gamer UK is, like, half a page hidden somewhere ending with 72% or sumfin'. I challenge anyone to present me with more detailed MG reviews published anywhere in print. Plus my magazine is not even a gaming magazine - just a regular mainstream PC mag, with oversized gaming scetion.

Hmmmm, wait, why am I writing this?

Right, because you tried to turn this into "Oleg vs Matrix" or something which is just so totally wrong on many levels.

Incidentally, now that I've written marks I gave to all MG games thru the years, I do notice EYSA and CC CoI are BY FAR the lowest scoring. Gotta be something in the air

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Post #: 87

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 6:27:18 AM

old man of the sea

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: Waynesboro, PA
Status: offline

1% more for CoI over EYSA? I am shocked!

E

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Post #: 88

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 7:17:13 AM

old man of the sea

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: Waynesboro, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Just for the record, I spoke with Shaun on the phone once, and he came across as very friendly and helpful (that was a few years ago). Of course, I'm a sucker for a British accent, even though Shaun admitted he wasn't a big Stones fan.

I'm with you on this. Shaun is a fine guy who works really hard. Me, I like German accents, so Marc is more my kind of dream date. But really, there is always someone who wants to go on and on about why they don't like something. Me, I like feeding trolls, be they reviewers or be they simply trolls.

E

< Message edited by old man of the sea -- 3/11/2007 7:33:27 AM >

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Post #: 89

RE: You've lost a lot of sales due to the high price. - 3/11/2007 8:12:10 AM

old man of the sea

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: Waynesboro, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

quote:

Ask Eric Young about the project he sank a couple of years into which tanked.

Yeah, ask me. Why is it I always get the impression that people think I actually wanted to make GIC and EYSA? I like hex based turn based games on paper damn it. I don't like realtime tactical games. I got paid to make those games, it wasn't something I just woke up and decided to make my life work out of them. Same goes for all of Close Combat. Define tanked. There where lots of tanks in GIC and EYSA. A whole lot of tanks. Panzer IV's, Panthers, Shermans, Marders, Cromwells, heck we had lots of tanks. GI Combat met sales projections (barely) and so did EYSA. Did they get good reviews? Yes and no. Will there be any more of them. Maybe, but not with me at the helm. I'm into training cops how to shoot dogs, bad guys, and how not to shoot dogs and people they should not shoot.

Oleg hates CC CoI but I've never even heard of him or seen his reviews before so if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound? He keeps going on about it not being a new game. Hmmmm, no sh*te!

I could tell you secrets about the map designs in Close Combat that would make you roll on the floor. F Tom, church youth camps, so much more. Close Combat after CC2 was a joke to me. Or a really bad joke played on me, I'm not sure which is true.

The only game I have enjoyed working on in the last 10 years is the game I am working on now, and you won't need a computer to play it. You will need lots of room, and lots of time.

While I am at it, what is Croatia? I am a dumb Native American. Is it part of Dalmatia? If so I hate their dogs. Those black spots and urinary tract problems are a pain in the @$$.

Man, have I mentioned that it is really nice to be out of the computer games biz? Selling stuff to the government is a way so much better life. Harder to do but better. Sarge! Time to b*tch about my war profiteering! Only I really don't have anything to do with military sales.

Oh, while I am at it, do you all know any good doctors in my area of PA. I have a boil on my @$$ and need to get it checked. I think I will name it Oleg until it is removed.

Disclaimer: I get no money from the sales of CC CoI. I doubt if I am even in the credits, why should I be, I didn't work on it. And if I did work on the first version, I had nothing to do with what shipped in the second version, and had no ownership in that version, so I deserve no credit. (see Sarge, I'm a man, not a worm like you).

I could really care less if anyone ever sells another computer game anywhere in the world. But reviewers who go on and on in forums about their opinions is just plain cheap self promotion. Print your opinion where you make money doing it and get the heck on with your life. Write another review, make more money, be happy, D@mn it!

Oh and more about tanks. I like tanks. I like cardboard counters with tanks printed on them. I like pictures of tanks. I like riding on tanks. I like looking at them at the proving grounds.

Things I like, dogs, I have three now. Cats, three of those too. Kids, four of them. Cars, one GM, One Mazda, One VW Vanagon. Houses, I just bought one. Fish, we got four.
Pagan gods, got six of them and ready to add more. Mead, got lots in storage, like 15 gallons bottled and 15 gallons getting ready to bottle. Spring, it is almost here.

Things I don't like, hmmm, people, unless they are for dinner. Turnips, I just don't get them. Hmmm, this list is harder.

Now, for something completely different!

My 19 year old daughter just moved in with me after her mother tossed her out of the house because she could not get child support for her anymore. I am so darn happy she moved in. It is a joy to have her back in my day to day life. The third dog I mentioned is one she picked out. A wonderful animal named Shadow.

On to more stuff.

Did you now that the American 1st Army has 50 billion dollars to spend on anything it wants?

Did you know my son Abner just came down stairs to tell me he loves me?

Did you know that in 10 years the sea will rise 3 feet?

Did you know that no one I know in the real world even cares about computer games.

Did you know that I do not have one darn game installed on the machine I am using to post here?

Did you know that I tossed my television out the front door four days ago? It worked fine, I was just tired of it and the mind numbing influence it had on my children.

Did you know, that if you wasted this much time reading this post you are a loser?

E

_____________________________

"Point me to a 'civilised' part of the General Forum and I'll steer way clear of it." - Soddball

Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.

(in reply to Doggie)

Post #: 90

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