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Special Ability Confusion - 3/9/2007 3:16:22 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		I haven't played BoA for a while, but w/the new patch I'm back at it. After I reviewed the (v1.09) manual, I was confused re Engineer, Seige Expert and Master Driller special abilities: are these abilities only for the c-in-c of the army, or can a subordinate having them contribute to that army?

I can understand where certain c-in-c traits would negate some subordinate abilities, i.e., a slow moving c-in-c would frustrate any fast movement by subordinate officers within the same army, but I don't fully understand the rationale for limiting so many special abilities to the Army leader.

Wouldn't the leader's staff's abilities contribute to the overall army's performance if they don't directly contradict the leader's military philosophy? Wouldn't a c-in-c delegate a seige to a seige expert among his own staff, or does that affect stacking?
Post #: 1
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/10/2007 10:17:07 AM   
Pocus


Posts: 1185
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		We try to be logical, as for example Engineer, Master Driller and Siege Expert work even if not the commander. Training Officer, need the leader to be the commander, as he has to be in command to 'force' officers applying new training and battle tactics. 

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RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/10/2007 11:46:38 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

We try to be logical, as for example Engineer, Master Driller and Siege Expert work even if not the commander. Training Officer, need the leader to be the commander, as he has to be in command to 'force' officers applying new training and battle tactics.


Hmm, in my manual (ver 1.09 updated manual) the appendices only list 6 abilities that affect an army whether or not the leader is the commander. Those are:

Militiaman
Cavalryman
Artillerist
Entrencher
Partisan
Indian Fighter

All others state an officer must be the commander-in-chief to have that ability affect the army. Your three above ability examples are all in this second category.

Can we get an updated appendices section since obviously things have changed since the one in the manual was done?

Jim


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RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/10/2007 3:08:46 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		Pocus:
Well, at least I now know the difference between training and drilling as I thought they were the essentially same ability. But which of them improves units, i.e., changes militia to regular to trained infantry? I think it's drilling.

I assume the army has to be stationary for the above abilitities to work, i.e., sitting-out the winter in town while waiting for the next spring offensive.

Jim:
I've noticed that discrepancey also; I thought it was either a translation error -- Francais a Anglais -- or caused after subsequent patch improvements as Pocus was fine-tuning the game.

Try this link re Quick Reference Card BoA: http://www.leqg.org/doc/boa/
It has icons w/corresponding abilities that seem to match Pocus' post.


< Message edited by Joe D. -- 3/10/2007 3:37:40 PM >

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Post #: 4
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/10/2007 7:42:41 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
Try this link re Quick Reference Card BoA: http://www.leqg.org/doc/boa/
It has icons w/corresponding abilities that seem to match Pocus' post.


Printing it out as I type this. Thanks Joe!

Jim


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Post #: 5
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/10/2007 8:52:08 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		No problem Jim, I just hope that info is still correct after the most recent patch! Pehaps Pocus will confirm it for us.

I'm looking at your Pascal quote; I know he had problems w/some religious authorities in France, but didn't he (indirectly) belong to a religious community (through a relative)? I think they were Hugonauts, but I'm not sure Pascal ever became one.

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Post #: 6
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/11/2007 1:06:30 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
I'm looking at your Pascal quote; I know he had problems w/some religious authorities in France, but didn't he (indirectly) belong to a religious community (through a relative)? I think they were Hugonauts, but I'm not sure Pascal ever became one.


Actually he was a Jansenist (I’m not sure if he was ever affiliated with the Huguenots) and was actually quite pious. Like many scholars/scientists of his day, there simply was no way to exist comfortably outside of religion. But that didn’t stop him from using his sharp intellect to scathingly criticize many aspects of religion in several of his writings.

I believe he had a sister who was a nun in the Jansenist movement before the Catholic Church issued a papal bull and condemned the teachings of Jansen as heretical in the mid 1600’s at the urging of King Louis XIV.

Jansenism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jansenism

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 3/11/2007 1:22:02 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/11/2007 2:54:42 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		One good link deserves another: thanks Jim.

After reading the Wiki, I can't fully understand why the RC Church had problems w/the Jansenists as the movement was similar in practice to/Vat I concepts of piety.

Still waiting on Pocus to confirm that training officers train officers -- what exactly does that do for them -- and drillers improve units?

Well, at least my computer clock has the right time.


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Post #: 8
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/12/2007 9:53:42 AM   
Pocus


Posts: 1185
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		No Training Officer don't trains officers, it means you need to be the commander in chief to train the troops.

The reference card you show seems up to date for me. The training can upgrade militias to regulars (check the unit details, it must show militia), and occurs at the start of the turn, if you don't move.


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Post #: 9
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/12/2007 3:16:33 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		OK, so training officers and master drills both train stationary troops. The only difference is that a training officer must be the army c-in-c while the master drill can be a subordinate, c'est ca?

I once put a colonial training officer w/Von Steuben (master drill) to garrison Boston; it looked like they were improving units -- one at a time -- on every turn.

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Post #: 10
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 3/12/2007 7:35:54 PM   
Pocus


Posts: 1185
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		yes, c'est ca 

for BOA, we put the limitation of being able to train at most one sub-unit (element) per turn, and a regiment have 4. This is the intended behavior, you can't hope to train more than 2-3 continentals regiments a year!


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Post #: 11
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 4/2/2007 12:36:28 AM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		Nice reference card, but I am wondering why the Naval Transport symbols are mixed in with CiC special abilities?

(in reply to Pocus)
Post #: 12
RE: Special Ability Confusion - 4/4/2007 8:35:06 PM   
Lafrite

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		No special reason, i'll divide into parts in next edition.

With lastest patch 'Artillerist' ability give a light bonus in siege.

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Post #: 13
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