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Newbie - 5/24/2007 1:32:33 AM   
Lord Martin

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Hello to you all!

Here´s another newbie signing in for duty.
I don´t understand a bit of this game so far, but it looks really fun.

I´ve seen there is another game like this, battleplan orange, or something like that. Is that worth buying to?

Well I´m off to learn the game.
Do ypu have any noob tip for me?

Regards
M
Post #: 1
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 1:45:11 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Welcome aboard. "Newbie Tip of The Day": Take it slow - WitP is potentially overwhelming if you try to play the big campaign all at once.

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 2
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 1:58:54 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Martin

Hello to you all!

Here´s another newbie signing in for duty.
I don´t understand a bit of this game so far, but it looks really fun.

I´ve seen there is another game like this, battleplan orange, or something like that. Is that worth buying to?

Well I´m off to learn the game.
Do ypu have any noob tip for me?

Regards
M


The other game is "War Plan Orange"... i don't own it yet but it looks worthwhile. It takes place in the 30's, iirc...

(in reply to Lord Martin)
Post #: 3
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 2:00:43 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Actually, the timespan is 1922-30. It's a good game, and less complicated than WitP, because the aerial component is cut waaaaaaaay back...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 4
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 2:11:18 AM   
Lord Martin

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thank you!

Yeah I noticed that.
All the choices!
Both an opportonity and a curse at the same time.

Any hint for a good scenario to start with?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 5
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 2:13:28 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Start with the tutorial, following it in the manual. Follow that up with one of the smaller "real" scenarios, like Coral Sea, and then Guadalcanal. This introduces you to the different concepts gradually. After that, it's the big leagues.

Can I then take it that you solved your earlier technical problem?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 6
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 2:20:51 AM   
Lord Martin

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		A thx again, will try that and see if I can get manage to handle it.

Yes, my problem was that I only patched the last upgrade. I didn´t noticed I had to take the whole 80mb one.
Silly of me, but easy to fix.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 7
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 2:26:53 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Well, you're not the first to make that mistake, believe me...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Lord Martin)
Post #: 8
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 3:37:33 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		Welcome aboard. Kiss your free time good by. This game is addictive.

My tip of the day: Do not use the auto convoy sysytem at all. It does not work well. Actually, do not let the AI run anything for you.

Check out the "Must read threads" on the main board for some really good ideas.

< Message edited by RUPD3658 -- 5/24/2007 3:38:46 AM >

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(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 5:09:54 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Welcome aboard!

Another tip of the day from a relative (5 months) newbie.  Expect an opposing opinion for every statement on these message boards.  Except about not using the auto convoy system.  That's quite useless. 

My opposing opinion is that you can start this monster right up with the grand campaign.  That's what I did, but I got this game looking for the ENTIRE War in the Pacific.  I very briefly played UV but found that I was put off by not having control of what happened "off map."  The smaller scenarios of WitP would feel the same way for me.  Play a month's worth of turns, or so, and then after you've made many of the mistakes in the book, scrap it and start another one. 

Another tip:  read the manual...several times, and then pour over it in your spare time.    It will do a very good job of telling you how to "drive" this game.  Once you have figured out how to give the units you want the orders you want you can start thinking strategy.  At that point, you'll find that much of the manual is outdated, or just completely wrong, but it's all in the details.  At that point, check out the "Must read threads" sticky thread in the main WitP forum. 

Enough for now.  Enjoy the learning process! 

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to RUPD3658)
Post #: 10
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 5:13:40 AM   
MineSweeper


Posts: 653
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Nags Head, NC
Status: offline 		If you play the japanese side save your first turn in an additional second slot on the save screen....this will help you with regard to any errors you make and not go through another 4-6 hours to do the first turn (campaign game - AI or PBEM)

< Message edited by MineSweeper -- 5/24/2007 6:15:40 AM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 9:18:00 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I started with the tutorial, of course, then played the "Rising Sun" scenario for awhile - but quickly found myself itching to see the whole war. I haven't touched a smaller scenario since...

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fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to MineSweeper)
Post #: 12
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 11:11:22 AM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Welcome aboard!

Lots of nice tips.
I agree with USS America, disagreement is a constant on this forum

I too started with the big campaign. Never played any "minor" scenario. It took me a couple of months to understand something (I was coming from UV)and I've been close to give up.
Now it's my personal addiction, been playing it since day one.

My tip: when you start the Campaign, start with the Allies. Japan neeeds more experience IMHO.

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Post #: 13
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 11:28:28 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		Lord Martin, you have my condolences for getting sucked in to this game.  My first piece of advice is: don't confuse the game mechanics with reality.  Do not assume that because something worked in real life or the actual war that it works that way in the game.

My second piece of advice is: don't even bother reading the manual.  It is a deliberate piece of misinformation that was incorrect and deliberately misleading when the game was released.  And its only gotten more so as the patches have altered the game.

My third piece of advice is: The first line of my sig.  Double check the packing of your parachute.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to mc3744)
Post #: 14
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 11:30:24 AM   
Lord Martin

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thanks for the welcome everyone

I´m really gonna read the manual, over and over again, I think I need to do that.

And since all of you agree on the convoy management I will try to take care of it myself.

One thing I noticed yesterday was that in lots of air operations the aircrafts just takes photos of the target. Will that give me more information on the target area, or will it increase the effectivity of future air attacks? Or soemthing else?

Oh, I have so many questions

(in reply to mc3744)
Post #: 15
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 11:59:09 AM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Photos are taken by the recon planes.
If you have a recon squadron in the base from which the air raid is launched, the raid will be accompanied by some recon planes and they'll take photos.
Unless that recon squadron has been given a specific target, different from the raid one.

Recon is needed to increase the detection level (DL) of a target. The better it is (DL increases with more recon) the more info and more precise you get. Number of enemy soldiers is usually VERY wrong at first recon flights (Number of LCUs is on the ther hand very precise).
And yes, a good DL will help achieve better bombing and naval bombing results.

Have fun

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Post #: 16
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 12:28:59 PM   
Lord Martin

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


My second piece of advice is: don't even bother reading the manual. It is a deliberate piece of misinformation that was incorrect and deliberately misleading when the game was released. And its only gotten more so as the patches have altered the game.



Oh is it so?
Pretty tough!
But the tutorial is still alright?

mc3744: Ah, this game is even more advance then I tought at first sight :)


< Message edited by Lord Martin -- 5/24/2007 12:31:10 PM >

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 17
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 12:37:01 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

Photos are taken by the recon planes.
If you have a recon squadron in the base from which the air raid is launched, the raid will be accompanied by some recon planes and they'll take photos.
Unless that recon squadron has been given a specific target, different from the raid one.

Recon is needed to increase the detection level (DL) of a target. The better it is (DL increases with more recon) the more info and more precise you get. Number of enemy soldiers is usually VERY wrong at first recon flights (Number of LCUs is on the ther hand very precise).
And yes, a good DL will help achieve better bombing and naval bombing results.

Have fun


I believe recon also helps with ground combat

Welcome Lord Martin, I can guarantee you are in for some fun and some heartache.

I would say the best thing to do is to read the manual, to get an idea of what is what, though there are a few innaccuracies as well as many things missing which have been added to the game as updates since it's intial release. So also go through the upgrade lists carefully. You should get a comprehensive list with the latest patch v1.806.

Then the best way to learn is to just start playing. I know many people get "gamers block" from the scale of the game and just end up staring at the screen trying to hold everything in their mind simulatneously. Don't worry about trying to remember everything at once, just start doing stuff, it will all come together sooner than you think. Try a small scenario or, if you prefer, go for the main event, Scenario 15, but treat it as a test, play a few months as training and don't worry about mistakes. Then start over in earnest when you are happy.

Once you are feeling more confident try a PBEM, it is so much better than the AI. Also later on, look at the modified scenarios others have developed, CHS and RHS as well as Nik Mod. If you are going to spend several years playing a campaign it is probably worth spoending a couple of weeks deciding which version is for you. But for now don't worry about the modded scenarios, just get stuck into the stock game and enjoy.

Finally the best advice I have had off these forums is that you have years so don't worry about forgetting to do stuff. Most of the time it doesn't matter if that supply convoy leaves today or tomorrow or the day after. Or that lcu starts planning for that base now or next week. Or that attack is launched exactly on time or delayed until the enemy CV's sail elsewhere. There are times when time and timing is important; ongoing assualts, coordinated attacks, defense of critical bases, etc. But most of the time things can slide a bit without too much detriment.



_____________________________


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Post #: 18
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 4:44:50 PM   
greg_slith


Posts: 490
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		I too started with the monster game instead of the smaller scenerios. I found that getting yourself into a pattern of what to do each turn helps a lot (ie check all West Coast bases for new units, form TF's, load stuff, etc...check Pearl for new stuff etc etc). Then I'll move across the Pacific, giving orders to my units. After a couple of days this will become second nature and move alot faster. I also found having a pen and paper handy helped me keep track of where I was sending this or that cargo task force.
You've just saved yourself a ton of money buying this game cuz you wont have time to play anything else.
Buy a bunch of Handywhipes, kiss your family goodbye and through down some extra kibble for the pets cuz, brother, your done

(in reply to Lord Martin)
Post #: 19
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 4:46:46 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx
Buy a bunch of Handywhipes, kiss your family goodbye and through down some extra kibble for the pets cuz, brother, your done


So true, so sad



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Post #: 20
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 6:30:54 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel
My second piece of advice is: don't even bother reading the manual.  It is a deliberate piece of misinformation that was incorrect and deliberately misleading when the game was released.  And its only gotten more so as the patches have altered the game.


I do not think someone has done this as a "deliberate piece of information". I also do not believe the manual has been provided to deliberately mislead gamers/customers.
Looks like you don't like the manual, but it is not fair to accuse the writers of the manual in such a way you choose.

And I feel it is quite unfair to answer honest questions of newbies this way.


(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 21
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 7:29:59 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel
My second piece of advice is: don't even bother reading the manual.  It is a deliberate piece of misinformation that was incorrect and deliberately misleading when the game was released.  And its only gotten more so as the patches have altered the game.


I do not think someone has done this as a "deliberate piece of information". I also do not believe the manual has been provided to deliberately mislead gamers/customers.
Looks like you don't like the manual, but it is not fair to accuse the writers of the manual in such a way you choose.

And I feel it is quite unfair to answer honest questions of newbies this way.



Too much of it is incorrect for me to believe that it was intended to be right. If anything, I'm giving the writers of it more credit by that then if they just massively screwed up in getting so much wrong.

Or maybe I just remember dealing with Mr.Frag too well, back when he was the only official spokesman here and so many of his answers to questions were demonstrably wrong.

< Message edited by dtravel -- 5/24/2007 7:52:10 PM >

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 22
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 7:44:45 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Another tip of the day from a relative (5 months) newbie. Expect an opposing opinion for every statement on these message boards.



So true!

quote:



Except about not using the auto convoy system. That's quite useless.


Also true

quote:



My opposing opinion is that you can start this monster right up with the grand campaign. That's what I did, but I got this game looking for the ENTIRE War in the Pacific. I very briefly played UV but found that I was put off by not having control of what happened "off map." The smaller scenarios of WitP would feel the same way for me. Play a month's worth of turns, or so, and then after you've made many of the mistakes in the book, scrap it and start another one.

Another tip: read the manual...several times, and then pour over it in your spare time. It will do a very good job of telling you how to "drive" this game. Once you have figured out how to give the units you want the orders you want you can start thinking strategy. At that point, you'll find that much of the manual is outdated, or just completely wrong, but it's all in the details. At that point, check out the "Must read threads" sticky thread in the main WitP forum.

Enough for now. Enjoy the learning process!


I agree with all of the above, but then I came from PacWar which is also very simular. If you are totaly new to this type of game, then by all means do the tutorial route. If you have some background in it, the tutorial will frustrate and bore you.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 23
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 8:35:07 PM   
Lord Martin

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I agree with all of the above, but then I came from PacWar which is also very simular. If you are totaly new to this type of game, then by all means do the tutorial route. If you have some background in it, the tutorial will frustrate and bore you.


I´m pretty much a newbie on this type of game, so I´ve got to learn it from scratch.

But I really enjoyed P.T.O II to old Snes. But I guess it don´t help me much now

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 24
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 9:06:13 PM   
Snowman999

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

And since all of you agree on the convoy management I will try to take care of it myself.


I don't agree, with limitations.

A lot of the old timers here only play Japan or only play PBEM. I only play AI and have only played Allies over about 1.5 years of real-time. In that situaiton the auto-convoy system is helpful so long as you recognize its limits and don't do certain things.

Don't set ANY ships in Karachi to auto-convoy. The AI doesn't have a "hard longitude" whereby bases west are Karachi's and east are San Francisco's. You'll get bizarre behavior where Karachi tries to send ships to the Solomaons (via Pearl for refueling!!!), right through the heart of Japanese air cover. Dead, dead, dead.

But, IF you use only San Francisco inventory, and IF you carefully limit yourself to bases east of Japanese air cover rings, the auto-convoy system can save some work and babysitting. It's great for Canada, Alaska, central Pacific out to Midway (north and south line), and the south seas bases like Suva that aren't important in an AI game (AI will never attack Canton Island, etc. so they're not worth assets, except as refueling stops for Oz-bound tankers/AKs.) You can safely supply NZ early on as well, but not Brisbane. As you take the Solomans and the Marshalls you can adjust your base list accordingly to include east-coast of OZ. In the late game I've had auto-convoy running to the Marianas, Iwo, etc.

Once, when I had taken all of Malaysia back, I tried limited use of Karachi ships for the DEI, but it was so close to victory it didn't gain much.

If you typically spend an hour on an AI turn, examne every base and task force, the added overhead of convoys isn't much. I tend to play more shoot-from-the-hip, play three weeks at a sitting (long, rainy weekend afternoon), so it's easier to miss a starving base, especially on the fuel side.

Depending on your playing personality auto-convoy can save some clicks and let you focus more on offensives and long-range planning.



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Snowman999

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Post #: 25
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 11:19:35 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Nah, auto convoy is messed up


.... sorry Snowman

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Post #: 26
RE: Newbie - 5/24/2007 11:35:25 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I play both sides, and it's definitely no good...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 27
RE: Newbie - 5/25/2007 1:11:54 AM   
Lord Martin

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I´ve begun looking at the tutorial now, and I also played a few turns on the Coral Sea Scenario. The last was pretty tough (in my newbie eyes). Japan took the Solomon Island pretty quick, and landed on the eastmost bases on New Guinea. My TF with my carriers sailed arounf trying to find the main IJN force, but failed. And a IJN sub made a sneak attack on my CA Austoria, and damaged her. Grrr...

My main problem was that I could get my subs to attack the enemy and I failed to load my army on transports.

But it was fun :)

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 28
RE: Newbie - 5/25/2007 1:58:43 AM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		I see your point. Please don't feel offended.
I just think WitP is a game so complex and so challenging we (assuming "we" is the bunch of experienced players) should do our utmost to help newbies in negotiating the "learning cliff", and avoid to confuse them (even more).

BTW, that's a call to all experienced players here.

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 29
RE: Newbie - 5/25/2007 1:59:23 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Martin
Do ypu have any noob tip for me?


Don't trust your eyes. In my first game I dutifully built up Jarvis Island with the thought that I would be able to ferry Wildcats from Palmyra all the way to Noumea. When I finished the buildup I found I was no closer then before. That's when I learned to count hexes and be skeptical of the range rings.

Most important tip of all: Turn off automatic upgrades for the Argonaut (SS) before 2/42.

_____________________________


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Post #: 30
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