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Basic Channel Mistake! AAR

 
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Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/25/2007 10:37:34 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Hey guys:

I wanted to share a very interesting situation my play testing came up with. While playing GBR in a solo game, I made a very basic mistake and left the channel open while I was chasing the Swedish fleets around in the baltic. I only did this for one month but as you can see, it was long enough for the whole French army to move across. Thinking I could recover from this quickly, I moved Nelson down to seal off the channel and trapped the French army (Or so I thought). I quickly moved Wellington from Holland down to defeat Davout who was next to Lille (I could not come down and go across the channel in the same turn). Davout and his one corps fell victim to Wellington (I even captured Davout) BUT the damage was done. Not being able to cross the channel thus delaying my army by a month then forced me to sue for peace the next turn since there was no physical way to recapture London!

After looking at this a little further, I realized that my ships in the channel were keeping the French army from getting into France so when I did cross the channel in the next turn and actually did defeat Napoleon, he simply retreated back to London further sealing my fate (and the game). Almost a no win???

Just wanted to give you a piece of advice: Don't let Nelson go ADD on you :-)












Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games


Post #: 1
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/25/2007 11:16:51 PM   
Mardonius


Posts: 654
Joined: 4/9/2007
From: East Coast
Status: offline 		Very savvy AI to figure to leave a delaying corps to cost you the month's move. That is a very welcome subtlety.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant" -- James Madison
"Yes, you will win most battles, but if you loose to me you will loose oh so badly that it causes me pain (chortle) just to think of it" - P. Khan

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 2
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/26/2007 9:51:26 PM   
Ursa MAior

 

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
Status: offline 		AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH a screenshot finally!

_____________________________


Art by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mardonius)
Post #: 3
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/27/2007 3:45:37 PM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Glad someone is playing the game!

(in reply to Ursa MAior)
Post #: 4
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/27/2007 6:21:02 PM   
yammahoper

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 4/23/2004
Status: offline 		This is a perfect example of how handy an instant save is. After making a minor mistake and losing your entire NATION, you can reload and do over, with a lesson learned about just how aware the AI is.

Hope ya had a save, lol.

Still, AI looks good. Certain mistakes should be jumped on. One the french sometimes make is to leave fleets in a garrisoned port, or with one corp, and the rest of the army gets so far away the brits can jump a quick corp down and try to seize the port/city. With a little luck, the result is scuttled french navies. If the french come screaming over to attack, the brit can pull out in the next naval phase.

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 5
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/28/2007 12:33:39 PM   
jamo262


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline 		Nice screen shot Marshall! The Map looks really good as does the lettering and numbers.

I was wondering though if you dont agree that the depot and garrison counters couldnt be better represented.

With colour coding, the depots need be merely square shaped without the flag or writing (or writing in a corner if its imperative for ID).

Similary, the garrisons seem to overwhelm the map. Im not sure what would be best here. Do they contain any information for an oposing player such as being a small /medium or /large sized garrison?

If not then perhaps just the square national flag is enough?

I imagine that it would take too much proramming time to animate the flag and make it wave-like mine to the right :-)

I imagine not- but I submit it to you as an idea.

What are your thoughts?


< Message edited by jamo262 -- 5/28/2007 12:38:36 PM >

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 6
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/28/2007 3:53:22 PM   
iamspamus

 

Posts: 433
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline 		Great, thanks Marshall.

As a defensive player (of every country I play), I place a 1 inf or mil garrison in EACH city that I own...at least. This would not have prevented the loss of London, probably, but would allow or a somewhat ready reserve of infantry. But to be honest Nap with his whole army in London is a bad thing.

One question. Why did you surrender after one turn of London being taken? (This asked from a Russian player's point of view?) If Nap is in England, what's in France? Straight to Paris, matey!

Jason
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I wanted to share a very interesting situation my play testing came up with. While playing GBR in a solo game, I made a very basic mistake and left the channel open while I was chasing the Swedish fleets around in the baltic. I only did this for one month but as you can see, it was long enough for the whole French army to move across. Thinking I could recover from this quickly, I moved Nelson down to seal off the channel and trapped the French army (Or so I thought). I quickly moved Wellington from Holland down to defeat Davout who was next to Lille (I could not come down and go across the channel in the same turn). Davout and his one corps fell victim to Wellington (I even captured Davout) BUT the damage was done. Not being able to cross the channel thus delaying my army by a month then forced me to sue for peace the next turn since there was no physical way to recapture London!

After looking at this a little further, I realized that my ships in the channel were keeping the French army from getting into France so when I did cross the channel in the next turn and actually did defeat Napoleon, he simply retreated back to London further sealing my fate (and the game). Almost a no win???

Just wanted to give you a piece of advice: Don't let Nelson go ADD on you :-)













(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 7
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/28/2007 8:03:05 PM   
Rosen

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 9/24/2005
Status: offline 		Just one thing about the garrisons size, for me it would be enough removing the tower and just keep the flag...

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 8
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/28/2007 11:57:22 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosen

Just one thing about the garrisons size, for me it would be enough removing the tower and just keep the flag...


Side by side comparison per your request.

Richard





Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to Rosen)
Post #: 9
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/29/2007 12:14:53 AM   
Rosen

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 9/24/2005
Status: offline 		Looks very nice to me

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 10
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/29/2007 8:20:32 AM   
jamo262


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline 		Thanks for the comparison

Hmmm still not right though. Help me here.

We don't need the writing on the garrison because its already self evident where it is located.

This is harder-but, could a small animated triangular flag fly from on of the spires to indicate garrison? A sprite?

If an approximation of strength is needed there could be 2 options.

1) the height of the flag or a colour bar on the flag pole.

2) for each unit <5 another small triangular waving flag from a spire.

Probably too much time to implement but a possibility for the future to experiment with?




(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 11
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/30/2007 3:38:27 AM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Agree that the name is redundant. However, I’m having a hard enough time trying to get the garrison downsizing proposal thru - don’t hold your breath for animation.

Latest concept below . . .

Richard





Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 12
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/30/2007 4:15:19 AM   
yammahoper

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 4/23/2004
Status: offline
I don't know if I would enjoy 100 waving flags cluttering my screen. Good, crisp and clean pictures for me!

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 13
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/30/2007 5:52:29 AM   
JodiSP

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I have to agree with yammahoper, a 100 waving flags on a single screen may drive me mad.



The small tower on the Edinburgh city would work fine, as the large towers does tend to make the map appear a bit to cluttered for me

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 14
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/31/2007 3:12:24 PM   
j-s

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosen

Looks very nice to me


Yes, I like it a much more. Why to add tower, it's not needed. Let's keep it simple, folks. And let's keep map clear.

(in reply to Rosen)
Post #: 15
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 5/31/2007 6:29:59 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :)  I really wanted to look at something like this:



I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.





(in reply to j-s)
Post #: 16
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/1/2007 2:58:29 AM   
Will_L_OLD

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 5/10/2006
From: NYC-Queens
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :) I really wanted to look at something like this:



I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.


Don't forget to put morale misprints on the back of the counters





(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 17
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/1/2007 10:21:41 AM   
iamspamus

 

Posts: 433
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline 		To be honest, I agree. I am just used to seeing them at this size.
Jason


quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :)  I really wanted to look at something like this:



I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.



(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 18
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/1/2007 10:00:19 PM   
j-s

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

I'm just pissed that the army corps counters aren't square :)  I really wanted to look at something like this:



I'm hoping to be able to mod the graphics files.







Me too...
But what the hell are those turkish corps doing in Moscow...

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 19
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/1/2007 10:31:52 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Hey guys:

I'm afraid the counters that you see are the ones that will be in Version 1.00. I tend to agree with the sq shapes but keep in mind that what you're asking could potentially delay a release since an entire counter redesign will go back to the graphics department and force more testing to ensure stack spacing is OK (i.e. too much stack overlap can wreak havoc on the engine trying to determine which stack you're clicking). I would rather look at this post release.



_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to j-s)
Post #: 20
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/2/2007 1:27:48 PM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Good decision
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I'm afraid the counters that you see are the ones that will be in Version 1.00. I tend to agree with the sq shapes but keep in mind that what you're asking could potentially delay a release since an entire counter redesign will go back to the graphics department and force more testing to ensure stack spacing is OK (i.e. too much stack overlap can wreak havoc on the engine trying to determine which stack you're clicking). I would rather look at this post release.




(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 21
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/2/2007 10:06:01 PM   
Pans


Posts: 126
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Hi together,

I fully agree to postpone the counter design for later.
I´m really happy with "old" version 1.0 !

What I´ve seen so far looks very impressive to me and I´m waiting to have this working on my PC

Thanks

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 22
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/3/2007 5:34:20 PM   
jamo262


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline 		Hi Monadman,

Yes thanks for playing around with the counters. Like Marshall says the nuts and bolts of getting it out is more important. Feedback from us is probably useful down the track if there is ever a version 2.

I agree that animated waving flags might be a bit much- I was thinking of those paradox games with the little men marching.

If you are all focused on getting the game out and not on making it pretty could you please tell-how moddable is this game do you think?

Will we be able to tinker and add our improvements?

ps. the little turrent on top of the flag doesnt look right. Why not a white "G" on the counter to differentiate garrisons

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 23
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/3/2007 6:39:47 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		You can redesign the bitmaps all you want but you will not be able to resize them until Marshall finds the time to code it so the program will not crash.

Richard


_____________________________


(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 24
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/4/2007 8:00:06 AM   
jamo262


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline 		Hi Id like to see this game sell well.

How many copies of this game do you nedd to sell over what time period for it to be considered a sucess?

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 25
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/6/2007 2:04:25 PM   
iamspamus

 

Posts: 433
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline 		Good question.
Jason


quote:

ORIGINAL: jamo262

Hi Id like to see this game sell well.

How many copies of this game do you nedd to sell over what time period for it to be considered a sucess?


(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 26
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/7/2007 11:51:26 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Jamo262:

Speaking JUST FOR ME ... "1" KIDDING. This is hard to put a finger on since I would like for this engine to spark more scenarios, games, etc. If it does these things then I would consider it a success. The engine we have designed should allow games to be developed in a matter of months since all we need to do is add/delete rules from our action chart then units and maps and BOOM! ... New Game! This is probably laughable to many of you who have watched this development cycle BUT the point is that every change we make, we make in the interest of not just EiANW but perhaps "EiA Conquer the World", "EiA The American Revolution" or maybe even EiA WWI. Bascially you guys will determine many of these things...



_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to iamspamus)
Post #: 27
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/8/2007 8:21:20 PM   
yammahoper

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 4/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

every change we make, we make in the interest of not just EiANW but perhaps "EiA Conquer the World", "EiA The American Revolution" or maybe even EiA WWI. Bascially you guys will determine many of these things...


DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL.

Today is my bday, and the above was a wonderful gift!

Thanks Marshall.

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 28
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/8/2007 11:24:21 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		I seem to recall a US Civil War game based on the same system as EiA (Corps with the boxes you fill in for I C A) but it was nowhere near as fun.

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 29
RE: Basic Channel Mistake! AAR - 6/11/2007 5:24:51 PM   
Frank McNally

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 8/29/2003
Status: offline 		Mondaman,

Can a pixel in a bitmap be transparent such that what the image is sitting on is visible?  Perhaps that'd be the cludgy fix  (would be aselection nuisance) but would make for a cleaner appearance. 

My prefernce would be for a small colored box (or square flag) with number of Garrison factors, perhaps a second number if corps are present e.g. "5" meaning 5 factors and "15,1" meaning 15 factors including a corp being present (premumably one must reveal a corps' strength to prove ability to enter city?)

Frank

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 30
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