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Weird Naval Engagement.

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Weird Naval Engagement. Page: [1]
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Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 2:29:45 AM   
Kadrin


Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
Status: offline 		So, in a current PBEM, just got back a turn and watched the results and this happened:


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/11/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amboina at 40,74

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro
CA Nachi
DD Murasame
DD Harukaze
DD Matsukaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Hato
DD Sagi

Allied Ships
CL Java
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
DD Banckert
DD Van Nes
DD Witte de With
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein
DD Van Ghent

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amboina at 40,74

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro
CA Nachi
DD Murasame
DD Harukaze
DD Matsukaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Hato
DD Sagi

Allied Ships
CL Java, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Tromp
DD Banckert
DD Van Nes
DD Witte de With
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein
DD Van Ghent, Shell hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amboina at 40,74

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro
CA Nachi
DD Murasame
DD Harukaze
DD Matsukaze, Shell hits 1
DD Hatakaze, Shell hits 1
DD Hato, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Sagi

Allied Ships
CL Java, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL Tromp
DD Banckert, Shell hits 1
DD Van Nes, Shell hits 2
DD Witte de With, Shell hits 1
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Van Ghent, Shell hits 1, on fire


The same 2 Task Forces engaged 3 times in 1 evening!! I did not know this was even possible!

Only thing I find completely strange about this was the fact that they both spotted each other in the first engagement, no hits as you can see, but in the second and third engagement the Japanese got surprise and did a surprise Long Lance attack (with no hits in the third engagement).

Not complaining about the results, but I think being surprised by the task force you just engaged is weird, and then being surprised by it again on top of that? That's just silly.

Anyway, congrats to the Japanese players! The USN would like to have a word with you when you're done having fun in the DEI.

_____________________________
Post #: 1
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 2:39:05 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		3 times between 2 same TF is the most I have seen but it may occur if both sides didn't use their op points by rushing at full speed from 6 hexes to the battle site.

Surprise in WITP is used to represent many things. In your example, let's imagine that both fleet meet and exchange fire for some minutes but both commanders wondered if they were not firing on friends and ordered to stop fire (arrived once off Guadalcanal) and then the Japanese realized first who is where and opened fire first, while the Allied admiral is still hesitating.
Then the Jap broke contact and then launched a long-distance torpedo attack before returning to a gun battle. Allied at this stage didn't know well the range of the Long Lance (IRL they still didn't know it in July 1943...) and so are surprised again to receive torpedoes.

(in reply to Kadrin)
Post #: 2
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 2:49:34 AM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Is there fog of war in combat reports?
(I wish I got the results above!)





< Message edited by Cathartes -- 5/30/2007 2:59:18 AM >

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 3
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 3:00:30 AM   
Kadrin


Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
Status: offline 		Oh wow, I had stopped looking at the Combat Reports you sent us since they were exactly the same as those generated in game (ruins the suspense of watching a combat replay).

I think we may have gotten out of sync. I like those results alot more than what I saw (also explains all the damage those ships had ).

Still, didn't know the same Task force could engage multiple times in a turn. Learn something new even after 3 years of playing...

_____________________________



(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 4
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 3:04:40 AM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		drats!  you read it before I edited it!  Cat is out of the bag.
This brings up some questions:

1.  Should I be sending you guys the combat report at all?
2.  Are combat reports always different? 
3.  When enemy ships show "sunk",  can it be completely untrue?


(in reply to Kadrin)
Post #: 5
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 3:11:11 AM   
Kadrin


Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
Status: offline 		F5 is my friend.

1. Yes, I think you should. We should be seeing the same thing anyway so it doesn't hurt.
2. If we're out of sync, they'll be different (yours being the true one).
3. Sunk is Sunk is far as I know. Only time it differs is verse the AI when it'll sink but not say so (Fog of War).

So I guess it's time we turn off the combat reports and try to fix the sync bug.

(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 6
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 3:38:13 AM   
seydlitz_slith


Posts: 2036
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Danville, IL
Status: offline 		Ok, somehow the US papers printed the story of the naval battle that was intended for the Japanese newspapers.  I somehow prefer the one that Michael posted above to the one that was in our combat replay file.

I have seen multiple engagements like this before....4 times during the night phase as the record.  Depends on visibility and op points left. 

(in reply to Kadrin)
Post #: 7
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 8:15:35 AM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		Yeah I've seen TFs enage more than once during the same turn.  Makes sense to me as engagements don't always last very long, sometimes just a few minutes leaving plenty of time for more engagements.

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

(in reply to seydlitz_slith)
Post #: 8
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 11:43:36 AM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I've seen multiple engagements (not sure if 4 or 5) when I have "do not retire" and the enemy is in its own port.
Unless my ships suffer badly they keep attacking the enemy fleet till it's detroyed.


_____________________________

Nec recisa recedit

(in reply to demonterico)
Post #: 9
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 4:58:17 PM   
Sonny II

 

Posts: 2878
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline 		What were the aggression ratings of the commanders? That makes a big difference in having multiple engagements.

(in reply to mc3744)
Post #: 10
RE: Weird Naval Engagement. - 5/30/2007 9:43:07 PM   
FAdmiral


Posts: 378
Joined: 12/20/2002
From: Atlanta,GA, USA
Status: offline 		Here is a 2 time engagement I experienced with both TFs arriving at full speed:
Japanese TF is bombarding and Allied TF is intercepting from Batavia.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 20,55
(06/27/42-Allied TF achieves Surprise vs. Jap AI)

Japanese Ships
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 6
CA Mogami, Shell hits 9
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 3
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 5
CA Kumano, Shell hits 1
CL Yura, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Uranami, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Asagiri, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
DD Amagiri, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Mutsuki
DD Mochizuki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Matsukaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Kari, Shell hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
CL Enterprise, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Marblehead
DD Vendetta, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Isaac Sweers, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Witte de With, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein
DD Van Ghent

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 20,55
(2nd Engagement)

Japanese Ships
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 3
CA Mogami, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
CA Mikuma
CA Suzuya
CA Kumano
CL Yura, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Uranami, on fire
DD Asagiri, on fire, heavy damage
DD Mutsuki
DD Mochizuki, on fire
DD Matsukaze, on fire
DD Kari, on fire

Allied Ships
CL Enterprise, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Marblehead
DD Vendetta, Shell hits 29, and is sunk
DD Isaac Sweers, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Witte de With, on fire
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein
DD Van Ghent

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I eventually lost 4 DDs and the Enterprise is in for repairs.
The Marblehead and 2 DDs are intact at Batavia & will be reinforced.
I'm not sure what the Jap TF lost but I air pounded ships all the way
back to Kuching where I then blasted the port for 3 days straight with
B-24s. As of 7/18/42, I still hold Palembang despite all the pounding by
air it goes through daily...

JIM

(in reply to Sonny II)
Post #: 11
Snap! - 5/31/2007 2:56:00 AM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		Latest turn from my PBEM against Cantona - same location but about 3 weeks earlier:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/17/41

Night Time Surface Combat, near Amboina at 40,74

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
CA Haguro
CA Nachi
CL Kinu
DD Kuroshio
DD Yukikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Hayashio
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
CA Houston
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp, Shell hits 1
DD Banckert, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Van Nes
DD Witte de With, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Evertsen, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kortenaer, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Piet Hein

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amboina at 40,74

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 2
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1
CA Haguro, Shell hits 2
CA Nachi, Shell hits 1
CL Kinu
DD Kuroshio
DD Yukikaze, on fire
DD Hayashio
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 4
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
DD Banckert, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
DD Van Nes
DD Witte de With, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
DD Evertsen, on fire, heavy damage
DD Piet Hein, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amboina at 40,74

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
CA Haguro, Shell hits 1
CA Nachi
CL Kinu
DD Kuroshio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Yukikaze, on fire
DD Hayashio
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 7
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 2
CL Tromp, Shell hits 1
DD Van Nes
DD Evertsen, and is sunk
DD Piet Hein, Shell hits 34, and is sunk

This is what happens when you bring Tanaka Raizo and battleships to the party. But is Force Z tagging along somewhere behind the ABDA striking force?

_____________________________




(in reply to Kadrin)
Post #: 12
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