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RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:01:16 PM   
robpost3


Posts: 465
Joined: 8/18/2006
From: the backwoods of Mass.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five

This isn't an issue of a work in progress.

This is an issue of "Hi, buy this and we'll give you this for $34.99".  We were given something other than what was sold, and what was described.   And we are given no date certain for when they'll make it right.  That's called consumer fraud.


These guys here are good to thier word; I have never had an issue that was not resolved to my complete satisfaction.
As far "hi" and 'buy" believe me you always get more than you pay for...and considering the mods that have/will be posted here, AAR, chucks and yucks, pull up a chair and relax we are all friends here, you are gonna be o.k....
Matrix puts the game back in gamey!!! Yeah!!! Whohah!!!


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(in reply to Executioner Five)
Post #: 31
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:04:45 PM   
Hanal

 

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline 		The only thing useful from this thread is discovering another reason for me not to buy my new pc with VISTA installed...luckily there are many new XP pcs still available for sale.......

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 32
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:13:40 PM   
ScotAlex

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		I have a computer that runs Vista, this is not a matix problem. I have not taken one program, game or software and ran it on Vista, and not had a problem. 

I would hate to be the programmer that is trying to program a game to run in this OS system.

(in reply to Hanal)
Post #: 33
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:15:19 PM   
Temple

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/31/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just to add one more note - we did not release a game that we thought had any missing content or issues on Vista, with some kind of plan to fix it after release. No. In fact, we delayed this game to give it more testing and make sure the release went smoothly.

Obviously, there was a screw-up and we're focused on finding out the exact how, when, why, etc. so that we can issue a quick and comprehensive fix. We're holding the physical release until we sort this out.


Erik, thanks for the update. I know it's been tough having a last minute glitch but I know you and your team will sort it out. I'm off to go shopping with the wife but I'll check back in a couple of hours.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 34
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:16:19 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Don't give him a refund. He'll probably keep it on his drive anyways.

You haven't misled anyone. Sure the package appears to be not as described, but that's down to a screw up, not a deliberate and elaborate ruse...I wouldn't give him a scent back!


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Post #: 35
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:24:40 PM   
Karl Berg

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		I bought you riedediting of Campaign series but did'n  found any difference in comparison with Talonsoft  compilation Word at War, I hoped for to find a new Linked Campaign in East Front, I did'n find  following ones : Grossdeutschland.lcgs, Crucible.lcg, Berlin.LCG, probably included in expansion fall of vthe Reich.  
Which sceneries can I tray to use you new unities (armored trains, airports, ships etc.)?
Karl Berg

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Post #: 36
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:30:18 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Berg

I bought you riedediting of Campaign series but did'n  found any difference in comparison with Talonsoft  compilation Word at War, I hoped for to find a new Linked Campaign in East Front, I did'n find  following ones : Grossdeutschland.lcgs, Crucible.lcg, Berlin.LCG, probably included in expansion fall of vthe Reich.  
Which sceneries can I tray to use you new unities (armored trains, airports, ships etc.)?
Karl Berg


While there are 10 new scenarios for EF and 1 new LCG, they do not use the new units.

I am creating some scenarios that do use the new units, and they will be coming with the first patch that Dogovich is working on - as the patch is required for the proper functionality of the new units.

Jason Petho



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(in reply to Karl Berg)
Post #: 37
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 10:44:20 PM   
Karl Berg

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		What is name of you new LCG included in East Front ?. I found only MOSCOW41.lcg and 20Guards.lcg already included in talonsoft version. The following campaign : Grossdeutschland.lcgs, Crucible.lcg, Berlin.LCG are omitted , if they were included in fall of the Reich and whill be included in next patch  of course it is not a problem. 
The old sceneries and countries EF2 work in you new release or they must be adjourned. ?    
Karl Berg

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 38
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 11:18:26 PM   
garymiboy

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: West Yorkshire
Status: offline 		Hi,Erik and the rest of the team!!...was going to ask same question...but can see there was a problem....no problem here these things do happen..look forward to the update/patch..lets have a little respect and goodwill round here guys!!..this is a brilliant game ..played EF/WF for years now never tire of it.....and dont forget a lot of work has gone into fetch this up to date !!!!

(in reply to robpost3)
Post #: 39
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/5/2007 11:52:59 PM   
Howard7x


Posts: 213
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: Derby, England
Status: offline 		I will more than likely buy this game next month when i get paid. Looks sweet. Still id like to see some more 2D screenshots. Is the game fully playable in 2d?

People like Executioner (name fits the mentality!) have no idea what hard work and dedication goes into these releases and re-issues. Shame really. I wish i lived in his bubble so i could be as perfect as he obviously is. I think the first thing that needs patching is his brain.

Congratz on the release

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Post #: 40
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:12:32 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Howard7x

People like Executioner (name fits the mentality!) have no idea what hard work and dedication goes into these releases and re-issues. Shame really. I wish i lived in his bubble so i could be as perfect as he obviously is. I think the first thing that needs patching is his brain.



Instead of taking more shots at the guy, maybe people should try to put themselves in his position. This may be the only aspect of the Matrix release that mattered to him. He may have just spent $35 for something he virtually already owns - The final Talonsoft releases run fine on XP. Then an admin makes the common mistake of telling an angry customer how he should feel/behave with his "relax" comment, and he went over the edge.

I'm considering buying this but I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what I'm going to get. Based on the initial info from years ago, I expected all the Campaign Games plus all the add-ons. Now it seems Divided Ground has been dropped. Since I already own Rising Sun Gold & Europe in Flames, plus many of their earlier versions, it seems that there will be nothing new for me except Fall of the Reich. Which means there is no reason to buy as of yet.

Matrix must be pulling their hair out. Hope they get things squared away soon.





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Post #: 41
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:36:22 AM   
Executioner Five

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline 		Exactly.  Between the fact that FOTR wasn't included--I've paid $35 for what I've already own.  And the fact that I can't even play this on my main computer because of the Vista armor bug...

God, someone dropped the ball here.  Don't know who's responsible, but whoever is should be about to collect unemployment.

(in reply to mjk428)
Post #: 42
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:38:31 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

As Erik as said we fix the mistakes and issue a patch.

David




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Post #: 43
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:38:47 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Actually, he had already made 3 arrogant posts before he was asked to "relax".

Look...that attitude just isn't acceptable. His initial post was very accusatory and arrogant. He was told an error obviously occurred and that they were working to find out what the problem was. He then jumped on them saying "As soon as humanly possible" is not an answer...like they know what the problem is? They didn't so how can they possibly give an accurate timetable for fixing the issue.

He was, in fact, offered a refund by Mr Rutkins even though a "no refund" policy exists. He also created another thread asking for a refund, like it wasn't enough to ask for it once - to which he received a positive answer. He seemed to be on a self destruct mode by this time.

Even after receiving word of a refund for him, he continued to shout fraud and make pathetic "small claims court" threats.

As it is he's one of the very few people to get a refund from Matrix AND he'll more than likely keep the game, or sell it on.

Doesn't deserve any sympathy from me.  In fact I'm glad he's getting his refund...the boards will be more peaceful.


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Post #: 44
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:44:21 AM   
Howard7x


Posts: 213
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: Derby, England
Status: offline 		Im sorry mjk but i dont agree. His attitude was way out of line.

It matters not anyway. The game will be patched in a week or two and FOTR will be in place. I dont really see the major problem. Bigger things have been missed from intial releases. I will purchase it when the problems have been resolved. The fact is almost every game ive ever purchased be them my favourite games or the worst games ive ever played have had some small glitch or missing content that required an early build patch. Its part of the development cycle now days! (should it be?)

I would however, like to see a list in a thread (not pointing to another thread!) that tells us what games we are getting, what improvements have been made to each game and what new content has been added to each game. It all seems a bit up in the air and it would help resolve all these complaints.

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Post #: 45
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:50:14 AM   
ScotAlex

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		He needs to go look up the term "Libel", and that would not be small claims court.

Look at his last 50 posts, all he does is complain.

(in reply to Howard7x)
Post #: 46
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:55:03 AM   
Howard7x


Posts: 213
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: Derby, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five

God, someone dropped the ball here.  Don't know who's responsible, but whoever is should be about to collect unemployment.




?

(in reply to Executioner Five)
Post #: 47
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 12:58:08 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline 		Well, thanks to him I found out that if I bought this today I'd get nothing from the purchase of value to me.

Angry customers rarely behave well. That doesn't mean they don't have a justifiable gripe. Other board members taking shots at them only make things worse.

And while libel may not apply this could easily viewed as a "bait & switch". It probably wouldn't be hard to get the crusading Elliot Spitzer to agree.

I don't believe for a second that Matrix did this intentionally but their good intentions don't mean squat. A quick remedy of the problem, which I fully expect, is all that will put this to rest.

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Post #: 48
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:01:06 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five

God, someone dropped the ball here.  Don't know who's responsible, but whoever is should be about to collect unemployment.



Don't you think you have blown this out of proportion more than a tad? Sure, it was a mistake. People make them. I make them, and in my professional life I've made worse ones. Everybody in a position to fire me has as well. You live and learn, and in this case the worst harm done to anyone seems to have been done to you - if you don't accept the refund offer for instant satisfaction you might have to wait a week or so for the feature you wanted in a $35 computer game. Not exactly life or death stuff, is it?

(in reply to Executioner Five)
Post #: 49
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:03:25 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I don't think he was suggesting that Executioner was applying the "libel"...more that Matrix could have a case of libel against him for suggesting that they did this on purpose and fraudulantly took his money.

But you are correct, a quick resolution will abait some people. Although not him I fear. And they have already said they are working as fast as possible to get this sorted.

The fact that a feature was left out the final cut AND a bug they had quashed in Vista has reappeared simply means the wrong version has been uploaded/compiled.




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Post #: 50
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:03:35 AM   
SurrenderMonkey

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		IMO, Matrix has handled this problem appropriately and with significant sensitivity. David and Erik have been forthcoming and humble. I am very satisfied, and patiently wait for the fix. Thanks to all.

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Post #: 51
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:16:19 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I don't think he was suggesting that Executioner was applying the "libel"...more that Matrix could have a case of libel against him for suggesting that they did this on purpose and fraudulantly took his money.

But you are correct, a quick resolution will abait some people. Although not him I fear. And they have already said they are working as fast as possible to get this sorted.

The fact that a feature was left out the final cut AND a bug they had quashed in Vista has reappeared simply means the wrong version has been uploaded/compiled.



Thanks for clearing that up. I don't know how I misread it. I guess because I couldn't imagine anyone suggesting that Matrix could have a legal case against him at this point. :)

Now, if he were to continue this campaign even after Matrix has given him a refund and remedied the error...


And yeah, because of the nature of the error, I would expect that this should be an quick & easy fix.



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Post #: 52
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:16:30 AM   
Terl


Posts: 609
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SurrenderMonkey

IMO, Matrix has handled this problem appropriately and with significant sensitivity. David and Erik have been forthcoming and humble. I am very satisfied, and patiently wait for the fix. Thanks to all.


Amen to that! It is refreshing to me to see a company step up, state what happened, and then fix it. Now if other software folks did the same...

One of the many reasons I buy Matrix Games - support after the sale.

(in reply to SurrenderMonkey)
Post #: 53
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:16:30 AM   
ScotAlex

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I don't think he was suggesting that Executioner was applying the "libel"...more that Matrix could have a case of libel against him for suggesting that they did this on purpose and fraudulantly took his money.



You are correct, enough of this, I already have about five PBEM games going....

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 54
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:18:19 AM   
Howard7x


Posts: 213
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: Derby, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SurrenderMonkey

IMO, Matrix has handled this problem appropriately and with significant sensitivity. David and Erik have been forthcoming and humble. I am very satisfied, and patiently wait for the fix. Thanks to all.



(in reply to SurrenderMonkey)
Post #: 55
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 1:53:47 AM   
Hammer732

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline 		I think we should pause for a moment and realize just how important the Campaign Series always has been and currently is! Such controversy on the opening day!!! This truly proves the greatness of the series. I've been playing this game non-stop for over six years. I've suffered through installing and uninstalling and reinstalling game versions to be compatible with Windows 98 through XP and still can play the game with custom scenarios from various sources. I believe Matrix and their team desrve our utmost respect for breathing new life into this classic series with an updated version for new generations of gamers to enjoy. The game has never been totally perfect and this leads to further innovation. As Yamamoto said, "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant."

Thanks and Best Regards, Hammer 732.

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Post #: 56
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 2:04:52 AM   
mattpenfold

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline 		JudgeDredd,

If you are going to criticise someone it does pay to get the facts correct yourself.

Matrix operate a 14 day refund policy as can be found here:
Return and Cancellations
What is your refund policy? 14 days for digital products.
14 days from delivery of physical products.

In the case of sales within Europe that exceeds the minimum legal requiremnt of a 7 day "cooling off" period. It may still fall foul of some consumer protection law that requires that a product be of merchentable quality. The time scale on that varies, but would normally be a matter of months, not days. In particular the clock stops ticking once a problem has been admitted. The courts would not penalise a person for requiring a refund after a month or two if no fix has been provided.


Edit: I live in the UK and so use the EU stop. I just checked the US store where it seems that refunds are not allowed. I am not sure why people in the US are penalised like this.

< Message edited by mattpenfold -- 6/6/2007 2:13:01 AM >

(in reply to Hammer732)
Post #: 57
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 2:40:09 AM   
Terl


Posts: 609
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mattpenfold

JudgeDredd,

If you are going to criticise someone it does pay to get the facts correct yourself.

Matrix operate a 14 day refund policy as can be found here:
Return and Cancellations
What is your refund policy? 14 days for digital products.
14 days from delivery of physical products.

In the case of sales within Europe that exceeds the minimum legal requiremnt of a 7 day "cooling off" period. It may still fall foul of some consumer protection law that requires that a product be of merchentable quality. The time scale on that varies, but would normally be a matter of months, not days. In particular the clock stops ticking once a problem has been admitted. The courts would not penalise a person for requiring a refund after a month or two if no fix has been provided.


Edit: I live in the UK and so use the EU stop. I just checked the US store where it seems that refunds are not allowed. I am not sure why people in the US are penalised like this.


The main complainer is in the US though, so no refund. He was offered one anyway. The main issue is the attitude he used. It just set folks off and it all went downhill from there. I own almost 20 games from Matrix )this one will make 20) and find them an amazing company to work with. They stand by their products and fix issues long after other companies kick a product to the curb (look at the support for WitP - still patching). Other folks here are just as pleased with Matrix.

< Message edited by Terl -- 6/6/2007 2:41:15 AM >

(in reply to mattpenfold)
Post #: 58
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 2:46:50 AM   
bink

 

Posts: 149
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline 		Why do purchasers in Europe get the benefit of a refund policy, whilst purchasers in the US do not?

(in reply to Terl)
Post #: 59
RE: Where is Fall of the Reich? - 6/6/2007 3:09:30 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terl

I am not sure why people in the US are penalised like this.


Climate change.

(in reply to Terl)
Post #: 60
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