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RE: SAC Strikes Back !!!

 
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RE: SAC Strikes Back !!! - 6/20/2007 1:25:13 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK guys don't know what to say or do reported 14 units in Toyoharra alone and 100,000 men plus more at Shikka.....

I sooo want to get ashore before the Reppu is fully operational by now PZB will have hist 1st squadrons coming on line with a LOT more to come.

I get 144 Hellcats I am willing to bet he is getting more Reppus than that now with a lot more to come after the A6M8 arrives.

I should and need to go deep now but 100,000 men behind lvl 9 forts will stop any assault cold even if I unload 500,000 men I am really getting to hate forts every sodding base I attack has them ever plan is stopped by them where the **** do the Japanese get all these engineers.

I cannot even count on my airforce disrupting enmey ground forces because PZB will just divide all his divs and the my bombers wont disrupt em all.

This is just depressing late war is a total ****up for the allies my production is not enough to keep up with losses its impossible.

I have not played badly in this game yes I have been to aggressive on occasion and tried to force the pace a little much but the sheer number of fortified bases with good dug in troops makes the whole thing impossible.

Going to sleep before I do much more

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 6/20/2007 1:27:44 AM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2131
Depressed - 6/20/2007 1:35:21 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I am open to ideas because frankly I am feeling pretty dejected.

Knowing that everywhere you go is going to be level 9 forts and the tha Japanese will be producing thousands of fighters better or as good as anything I have just now is relaly taking the piss.

100,000 men on day 1 will quickly become 200k or 300k because PZB will throw every transport he has to stop me



(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2132
RE: Optomistic! - 6/20/2007 1:39:12 AM   
HarryM

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 7/13/2004
Status: offline 		What about Iwo or Bonin? Is Bonin also mountainous terrain? Still would be nice to get a fighter base close, or even Marianas again (should be easier with KB being more clipped than before, maybe...)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2133
A bomb - 6/20/2007 1:49:03 AM   
samng

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: CA, USA
Status: offline 		I am not a WiTP player but I love this AAR. Is there any rule against putting troops in an area been recently attacked with A bomb? If not, can consider A bomb a landing site before going in.

(in reply to HarryM)
Post #: 2134
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 2:01:47 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Heheh I hadnt thought about the A bomb one. I am just a little pissed off tonight this habit of dividing Divs to neutralise air to mud attacks is starting to piss me off and the sheer number of level 9 fortified bases depress me 20 Divs in attack aqnd 2 Divs in lvl 9 forts will stop me cold..

I am now convinced that 100,000 men behind lvl 9 forts and well supplied on either Iwo or Bonin is an impossible take I would need 6 months plus and its not possible

(in reply to samng)
Post #: 2135
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 2:03:10 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		p.s. keep em coming at present I am a little lost as to what to do or where to go I am now considering gfoing west until I find a base with a lvl 1 - 4 AF and dumping 500,000 men onto it just to make sure I sodding take the place...

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2136
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 2:06:44 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Below is a note I sent to PZB a few days ago just in passing we were having a joint whinge session he on Japanese me on allied
 
I find it incredibly frustrating and have done since late 43 but its gotten a lot worse now NONE of the below is a complaint we play the game we have but you did ask !!!!
 
My no 1 hate is the sheer quantity of bases with lvl 9 forts I am facing the maginot line every time I attack somewhere in almost all game – where did the Japanese get all these engineers,
 
The only places I should be facing them are in Japan and the inner perimeter plus selected key bases not in every dammed place.
 
This ends up leading to bad behaviour on my part which I don’t want to do.
 
Other things I hate
 

Aerial mining not being interceptable  thousands of Japanese ships were sunk by air dropped mines but I feel contrained from using them because you cannot intercept them (albeit I don’t think a single B29 on air mining was ever sank during the war)
Unlimited supply of trained Jap pilots made ace by ground training in China
No allied control of production it should be both or neither I am willing to bet that in one month you will produce 700+ Reppus a month and probably 150+ per month now it has to be either or both as it stands this and research may make the game unplayable
Subs being a total waste of time
Night air bombing effectiveness (don’t make me larff !!!)
Uber CAP it goes both ways and I hate it.
Splitting Ground units to stop air attack being effective (but with the in game targeting mechanim for ground attacks its bullshit so its level 9 forts and split ground units so 1 Divison can hold of 4 or 5 in assault even with total air superiority)
The reinforcement of Iwo REALLY pissed me off  I landed basically a reinforced Corps of 3 Divs on Iwo which was not unreasonable)

thousands of transport aircraft landing at an AF that was totally capped by allied interceptors
Massive unescorted convoys dumping reinforcement troops I could sink some but not all
9. Not enough allied pilots
10. Kamikazes not working so you have to use HL Kamis
 
There are more but it’s the lvl 9 forts that really piss me off !!!
 
I just don’t think they thought about the late war or the implications of Japanese control of production/research
 

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2137
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 7:42:34 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		Classic case of how one players style, or the one game can lead to some funny statements

Subs are almost useless.

Go ask Tabpub how to really use SS, hes going to win the game against me in mid 44 almost totally on their own -I have hardly a convoy left, see how many planes you can build as japan with out oil or resources.

Japs DID build size 9 forts every bloody where -that was their speciality.
At buna several 100 troops with cocunut tree bunkers held back an entire division for months.

You cannot crush dug in japanese troops with numbers.
You grind em down
You blockade em
You starve em
you starve em some more.
If hes flying in transport reinforcements then why?
cause you left operational fields in range, for them to fly from
You have carriers groups that can sail anywhere, but do not close down the general target area first.
Too far, too fast, yes, you took on a game of impossible odds, but i still think you went about it wrong.
Too late now. Sometimes you have to realise that your opponent may just have the best of it, and in this games case, its not your fualt, you just had far too much to make up.
Personally, this game may have reached a point where a peace accord is called before this particular battle sours you both off WITP forever.

Just my 2 cents.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2138
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 12:34:24 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Peace....Peace never not until I have crushed the japanese and the Emperor has apologised for Pearl Harbour....

Peace ......pffft

Morale is back !!!

I guess I just cannot use subs then Herbie I lost 6 subs yesterday to Pauk in one day when he turned his air groups on air ASW.

PZB's HK Groups sink multiple subs all the time.

To be honest I think bugs in late war on both sides would have ended the game but for the fact that we are both bloody minded and having gotten this far may as well discover ALL the bugs by playing it out to the end.

I would be interested to hear where I went wrong there are a number of tactical ops that went wrong but strategically I would be interested to discover what I should have done instead.

Perhaps you are correct about forts Herbie but in that case I think lvl 9 forts are to powerfull.

Malaya was captured primarily to cut off resources as my subs had failed.
Between dedicated HK Groups and Air Interdiction the Japanese are just to dammed good at ASW IMO anyone who can operate it gets a pat on the back from me.

Anyway its clear to me that Toyoharra is a bust

I need to rethink PZB has just told me that he will be recieving 900 Reppus a month ...... 900 !!!!

Having one side with strategic control and the other having only tactical control is not reasonable - now this game makes it worse and is definitly an outlier but none the less its wrong and needs to be changed either give the allies some control over on map production in the way the Japanese do or ditch it for both sides.....


(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 2139
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 1:04:36 PM   
soeren01

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline
quote:

I need to rethink PZB has just told me that he will be recieving 900 Reppus a month ...... 900 !!!!


Do you believe anything he is telling you ?
Reppu's, perhaps.
But maybe the numbers are a bit on the high side

_____________________________

soeren01, formerly known as Soeren
CoG FoF
PacWar WIR BoB BTR UV WITP WITE WITW

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2140
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 1:33:56 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Use both A bombs! One on Gumma (probably biggest aircraft production center) and the other where you can kill the most Reppu or Shinden factories.

_____________________________


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2141
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 5:13:36 PM   
WhoCares


Posts: 653
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

p.s. keep em coming at present I am a little lost as to what to do or where to go I am now considering gfoing west until I find a base with a lvl 1 - 4 AF and dumping 500,000 men onto it just to make sure I sodding take the place...

A few weeks back I suggested those two bases next to Shanghai
About equivalent alternative as discussed was Korea...

Certainly very deep, likely too deep, and you already suffered from such deeps strikes, but if you are desperate enough

Edit: Link to my post a few weeks ago: Link: Hangchow and Soochow

< Message edited by WhoCares -- 6/20/2007 6:08:28 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2142
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 5:38:59 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		Land on a non hex base in Formosa... It is ugly to land on a non-base hex, but PZB did it before and if you do it in Formosa it isn't a game breaker, as opposed to straight on the HI... Then stack all you can on Formosa and bomb the hell out of his bases...

(in reply to WhoCares)
Post #: 2143
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 6:06:31 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I know how you feel Andy. I have 2 PBEM's as allies in 2/45 and other 3/45... my complaints would be...

1) ATOLLS with huge 9 level fortifications. These are absolutely monster bases for any invasion. You need to send half an army to even seize something here. If he places 500 assault points there... than  x 1000!

I think that after initial beach head is cleared on first strike you really should not have to assault again, again, again....  *Ofcourse these assaults seize once you stop unloading but still...*

2) Submarines are absolutely useless... well not useless but VERY ineffective. RL they sank A lot of Japanese ships.

3) You are unable to blockade the enemy bases. As you said he can bring in reinforcements via air or single TF ships. Had similar thing at Iwo Jima which I luckily won after I lost more than 400 ships!!!  This is bad, bad, bad...!!! (Definately know the feeling)

Now I'am bombing hell out of Home Islands since this was the main thrust.

4) Agreed. Either both sides have the production or it should be completely OFF. This leads to ridicilious things happening. I have had 0 Hellcats on the pool... almost 0 P38's in the pool etc... luckily I won this battle of attrition.

5) Aerial mines really should work. As you stated they were absolutely devastating RL in WW2.

6) Uber CAP.. well that works both ways. So both sides can complain about it but it kind of equals out.


...to name the most annoying things around.

Yes, those 2 late war games are using Stock scenario. (I have 2 more PBEM's one with CHS and 1 with Big B)


For the future: Take 2-3 bases somewhere near home islands...than move your bomber force there and start bombing the crap out PzB. If nonbase hex landings are ok than follow veji1 advice about Formosa.


< Message edited by aztez -- 6/20/2007 6:38:41 PM >

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 2144
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 7:23:50 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK I do believe PZB when he says 900 Reppus largely because of the number of A6M5's that have been shot down when they all upgrade he will be producing thousands.

Formosa is possibly to deep I will look at it again tonight.

I am now thinking of three operations

1. Formosa
2. The island with a 1(4) AF off the HI
3. PI from both sides....

I will tonight pick one and go through all 1,000 ships changing the prep location for the embarked troops.....

(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 2145
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 7:25:24 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Aztez yup I agree but to be fair both sides have gripes on your battle at Iwo did you manage to take the place ?

PZB has 100,000 men and level 9 forts so I am not sure I can take the place even with 600,000 men....

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2146
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 7:48:31 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I do have Hue and Wake under control

I think I need to seriously consider only attacking somewhere that B29's out of Hue can make untennable

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2147
RE: A bomb - 6/20/2007 7:50:06 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Aztez yup I agree but to be fair both sides have gripes on your battle at Iwo did you manage to take the place ?

PZB has 100,000 men and level 9 forts so I am not sure I can take the place even with 600,000 men....



I think Erstad had some 35 000-48 000 there + with level 9 forts and it seemed impossible to capture.

We are playing with 3 day turns and thus the 1st turn ended with 0:1 odds than he had 2 free days to fly in reinforcements and transport them via small TF.

I ended up assaulting the damn place with half of my CenPac army. ..I think something like 250 000 men (ridicilious)...and it finally gave in. Now I control Iwo Jima and Bonin's... and been building up my battered troops since they took an beating.

Thousands of aircraft was lost and hundreds of ships near Iwo Jima. (It was a total mess)

I could not even think about going through South Pacific with all those damn atolls with level 9 forts. As you said they are awesome fortresses. So the only route I was left to go was via CenPac offensive.

Just get an couple of airbase somewhere near Japan where you can start escorted bomb strikes and shutdown those Reppu factories.

I bet it will be one hell of an battle though to gain those

< Message edited by aztez -- 6/20/2007 7:57:15 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2148
RE: Depressed - 6/21/2007 11:54:32 PM   
KDonovan


Posts: 1157
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

I am open to ideas because frankly I am feeling pretty dejected.

Knowing that everywhere you go is going to be level 9 forts and the tha Japanese will be producing thousands of fighters better or as good as anything I have just now is relaly taking the piss.

100,000 men on day 1 will quickly become 200k or 300k because PZB will throw every transport he has to stop me


don't follow this AAR religously...so can you post a strategic map, with intel on japanese troop depositions on the major islands, and perhaps your naval and infantry assetts available......then maybe i can offer some ideas

_____________________________


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2149
A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 1:20:47 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK done some strategising maps are below of forces to help

Malaya/SEA Army Group






Attachment (1)

(in reply to KDonovan)
Post #: 2150
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 1:21:48 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		8th Army is more or less shut down .....






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2151
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 1:24:44 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		6th US Army has 8 Divs in 2 Strong Corps but only 1 Amphib is assualt loaded

10th US Army has 12 Divs accross 4 Corps but only 3 Amphib and XIth Corps are Assault loaded

XXIV (Independent) Corps is on Iwo with 3 Divs and there are a further 2 Divs in NORPAC Area




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2152
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 1:46:54 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Just getting ready for my next attack and thinking through the target....

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/10/45

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 70,41

Japanese Ships
PC PC-219
PC Toshi Maru #3
PC PC-106
PC PC-77
PC PC-75
PC PC-65
PC PC-62
PC PC-11

Allied Ships
SS Picuda

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 59,44

Japanese Ships
MSW W.1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Tokuho Maru #5
MSW Chitose Maru
MSW Choun Maru #18
MSW W.2
MSW Wa 18
PC PC-73
PC PC-71

Allied Ships
SS Aspro

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Tokyo , at 66,43

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 20
C6N1-S Myrt x 54
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 43

Allied aircraft
P-61A Black Widow x 58

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 damaged
C6N1-S Myrt: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-61A Black Widow: 8 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
9 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
9 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
9 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
6 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
6 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
7 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
8 x P-61A Black Widow bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Tokyo , at 66,43

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 20
C6N1-S Myrt x 53
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 43

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 damaged
C6N1-S Myrt: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 7 damaged

Manpower hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Asahigawa , at 71,37

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 17
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 11
Ki-102a Randy x 15

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 damaged
Ki-102a Randy: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 3 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 8
B6N Jill x 18
B7A Grace x 16

No Japanese losses

Runway hits 13

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
16 x B6N Jill bombing at 9000 feet
2 x B6N Jill bombing at 9000 feet
16 x B7A Grace bombing at 7000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 95
Ki-46-III Dinah x 3

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 29

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
12 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
2 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 4
Boomerang II x 8
PB4Y Liberator x 9


Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
6 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bonin , at 65,52

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 4 destroyed
C6N Myrt: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
15 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 13

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 16th Chinese Corps, at 58,23

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 54
D4Y Judy x 48
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 63

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 damaged
D4Y Judy: 2 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 1 damaged


Allied ground losses:
43 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Aircraft Attacking:
32 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
31 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
18 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
18 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
18 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 40th USA Division, at 32,38

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 20

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 48th/A Division, at 27,39


Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 68
P-51D Mustang x 12
A-26B Invader x 53
PB4Y Liberator x 11
B-24J Liberator x 22


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
138 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
4 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
13 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
38 x P-38J Lightning bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
27 x P-38J Lightning bombing at 2000 feet
9 x P-51D Mustang bombing at 2000 feet
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
14 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x P-38J Lightning bombing at 2000 feet
3 x P-51D Mustang bombing at 2000 feet
5 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
6 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 48th/A Division, at 27,39


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 9


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 3rd/C Division, at 31,46


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 44


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
36 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
44 x TBM Avenger bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 3rd/C Division, at 31,46


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 9


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Liberator VI bombing at 17000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 68,54


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 57
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
SB2C Helldiver x 14


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PC PC-186, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
9 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 64,53


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 15


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-117
AG AG-5117, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
9 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 64,54

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 8

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 57
F4U-1D Corsair x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 8 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
LST LST-576

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 63,54

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
LSM LSM-422, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
59 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 62,53

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 19

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 94
F4U-1D Corsair x 40

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 19 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 26 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 27,54


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 13
Liberator VI x 3
P-40N Warhawk x 31


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Singapore Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Moji Maru, heavy damage
TK Otowasan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AK Nagato Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
1 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 27,54


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 53
Liberator VI x 4
P-40N Warhawk x 67


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Nagato Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AK Turuga Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
TK Otowasan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Okitu Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Nana Maru, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
AK Singapore Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 62,54

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 17
F6F Hellcat x 21
F4U-1D Corsair x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 5 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 7 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 63,54

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 3
F6F Hellcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 2 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Empire Prairie
LSM LSM(R)-193

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 64,54

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 31
F4U-1D Corsair x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 4 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 63,54

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 8
F6F Hellcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 3 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 70,41

Japanese Ships
PC PC-106, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PC Toshi Maru #3
PC PC-219
PC PC-77
PC PC-75
PC PC-65
PC PC-62
PC PC-11

Allied Ships
SS Picuda, hits 4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 27,39

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 19932 troops, 161 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 496

Defending force 6936 troops, 63 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 140

Allied max assault: 958 - adjusted assault: 440

Japanese max defense: 77 - adjusted defense: 53

Allied assault odds: 8 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
116 casualties reported
Guns lost 10

Allied ground losses:
281 casualties reported
Guns lost 8


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Saigon

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 95657 troops, 811 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2066

Defending force 16309 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 197


Japanese ground losses:
93 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Camranh Bay

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4339 troops, 134 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 795

Defending force 38670 troops, 214 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 506


Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kompong Trach

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3748 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 77

Defending force 3487 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 40

Allied max assault: 66 - adjusted assault: 18

Japanese max defense: 27 - adjusted defense: 10

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Muntok

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 110 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied max assault: 10 - adjusted assault: 6

Japanese max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Muntok base !!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2153
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 1:58:51 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK decison made its LUZON

6th Army will land 1 Amphib Corps in the North, 10th Army will land in another base with III Amphib Corps in the lead both armies will be side by side one unstopable mass.

In the West

8th US Army and V Amphib Corps will reactivate and be flown in to operate as the reseve army for the newly formed 24th US Army Group. (and yes I just added the numbers together)

After they secure bases in Luzon they will be joined by US 14th Corps after the battle of Saigon is mopped up and Camranh bay is secure.

That will give me c 24 Divisions for the next move.

In Malaya

Chinese and Aus /NZ Cavalry Divs will guard the northern frontier of SEA against enemy incursions.
ABDA Corps will watch Malaya

Other forces of 1st Australian Army including 1st Aus Corps will move to Singapore for R&R and preparation along with 3rd US Corps....

It will take a carefull appreciation of the balance of forces but I would like to have 8 Div equivalents and all the armour for the reinvasion of India

Broadly 6 Divisons will be left to secure SEA and Malaya plus a Chinese Corps so this will be a pure defensive army.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2154
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 2:25:43 AM   
KDonovan


Posts: 1157
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		what are your thoughts on Okinawa?...how much forces does he have there?.. by capturing Naha...it will give you a non-malarial, deep water port, B29 base, within fighter escort range of the Home Islands.

Luzon on the otherhand is mostly malerial. The best port is Manila which is a city hex...so it won't be easily captured....but more importantly, by taking Luzon, you won't be able to provide fighter escort to your B29's on HI raids



_____________________________


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2155
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 10:11:22 AM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Andy, Donavan is right. Hands off from Luzon. PzB even doesn´t need to reinforce by ship or plane, he simply can walk his reserves whereever he needs them.
Go after an island.
Best choice would still be Iwo and Bonin imho. You have started there, you have forces there, it is in B29 range. Shell and bomb it for two or three weeks (all around the clock, every plane or ship possible) and then land your 2 Armies there and throw PzB out.
While doing this build up Alaska with ports and airfields and start dropping mines on his ports. He flies his kamis high, you fly your mines low, so what is the difference (only if there isn´t any house rule)?

So, now stop feeling bad, but finish the job you started on Iwo Jima, General!

_____________________________

If you like what I said love me,if you dislike what I say ignore me!

"Extra Bavaria non est vita! Et sic est vita non est ita!"


(in reply to KDonovan)
Post #: 2156
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 10:24:18 AM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		What the guys said above... what you need is an base where you can escort your bombers into Home Islands.

I would still say that the main hammer should fall on Iwo Jima area or around Okinawa.

Luzon is a mess.. a lot of bases and you need to guard you rear meaning that by time you reach your main goals your troops are are already strectched thin.

(in reply to frank1970)
Post #: 2157
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 11:46:31 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		Although I would like to see a major battle on Luzon, I have to say that it might not be the best place to go to.. Maybe landing the massive hammer on iwo would be the solution, then Bonin. By then you can bomb the HI round the clock and get your army ready to take Luzon/okinawa and severe the ties between the HI and the rest of its holdings.

(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 2158
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 11:59:40 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Interesting thoughts guys I will let you into a few factors you may have missed. Iwo now has c 2,300 AV behind level 9 forts on mountainous terrain my chances of taking it zero....

Thats 18,000 + adjusted AV more than the entire US Army. (I hav c 20 Divs plus armour so about 7,000 AV)

My air wont disrupt him because he has so many units that only 2 or 3 can be disrupted.

So Iwo is not for me.

Okinawa would expose my fleet to attack on both flanks from Japan and from PI and you can bet he would mass HL Kamis also he has 15 units there and I have to assume at least 1,000 AV PZB will reinforce as he did at Iwo with unstoppable trasnport TF's and Aircraft all the time my (empty) Hellcat and (empty) navy poilot pools are wiped out again.

The advantage of the PI is as follow.

1. PZB has drawn on PI for reinforcements for SEA and Iwo - he cannot be strong everywhere.... remember I destroyed two PI Divs sent to reinforce SEA and he has drawn other forces from this theatre to stop my apparent attack on HI and try and slow down SEA.

2. Bases have 1 or 2 units per hex in PI except Manila and there a re a lot of bases to cover that means my air to mud will WORK I will have a land base probably in the first few days and can pile in Thuds and Mediums saving my carrier air for a follow on to Okinawa or Formosa.

3. PI is in normal range of Hue, Wasile, and Banja that means 700 B29's on AF suppression freeing up my carriers for other duties.

4. PI allows me to reuinite the two wings of my army and more easily resupply Malaya.



_____________________________


(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 2159
RE: A New Hope.... - 6/22/2007 1:09:48 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Also although Manila may be beyond me PZB will I think withdraw to the city its ceding the outer bases to me.

Once I have P51's and P47's operational it is mine.

It does mean I am giving up on winning by August but lets be realistic it aint going to happen.

At least this way I can send my partially repaired carriers back to port to finish knocking off sys damage and can do what needs to be done without to much interference.

To be honest part of me is tempted to pull 24th US Corps off of Iwo as theyt really are not adding value there.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 2160
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