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Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 9:36:28 AM   
Rafael Warsaw


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		Gentlemen!

a short question as Im on the run:

- How exactly does the Brithis Withdrawal (If Karachi fall) rule works?

Thank You very kind.




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Post #: 1
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 10:19:38 AM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		While rafael is at it, how does one wihtdraw these ships when you cannot afford the PP penalty?

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Post #: 2
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 12:07:24 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		I don't know how to withdraw ships if Karachi falls.

Cantona....
Disband the ships to be withdrawn in Karachi {I think Bombay will work as well} or if you are playing CHS, Aden. Go to the Ships at anchor list and click the ship to bring up it's display. There is a Withdraw Ship button.

(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 3
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 12:40:06 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		You can also withdraw RN ships from at least one American port (SF?). It seems to me it is in the manual.

If you don,'t withdraw ships, the PP penalty will be paird, wether you have enough PP or not. So if you have 500 PP and have 2000 to pay, your PP count will fall to -1500 and then slowly go up to 0.

(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 4
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 1:51:05 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Yes, you can also withdraw from San Francisco.

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 5
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 2:06:44 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		another quick question about the same subject from me then (sorry for the hijacking, OP)

If in a month I am asked to withdraw 1 BB and 2 DD's, do I have to withdraw them the same turn or can I withdraw one DD on say March 1st and the last DD and the BB on March 31st and avoid the penalty?

Terje

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Post #: 6
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 2:15:57 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

another quick question about the same subject from me then (sorry for the hijacking, OP)

If in a month I am asked to withdraw 1 BB and 2 DD's, do I have to withdraw them the same turn or can I withdraw one DD on say March 1st and the last DD and the BB on March 31st and avoid the penalty?

Terje


Ships can be withdrawn separately, but think long and hard about withdrawing DDs - that is the one ship type that is ALWAYS asked for (if there is any withdrawal, it always asks for 2 DDs). No matter how many DDs you have (even zero) - the Admiralty will request you send back 2 more.

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Post #: 7
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 2:20:36 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks!

Terje

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 8
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 2:20:56 PM   
Yava


Posts: 2129
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Poland/Kolobrzeg
Status: offline 		And it is not a good option to withdraw British DDs since they are a decent weapon against Jap subs at the beginning... oh well they are just decent and valuable


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Post #: 9
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 3:06:11 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yava

And it is not a good option to withdraw British DDs since they are a decent weapon against Jap subs at the beginning... oh well they are just decent and valuable



So its better to take the PP damage? I was thinking that those subs might be sunk by air asw as well, and the PP spent to withdraw much needed ground forces from say Java and to PM.
Hmm the more I think I understand the more questions I end up with
Hehe just gotta love that!!

Terje

(in reply to Yava)
Post #: 10
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 4:15:56 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Well, air ASW isn't all that effective for Allies at start.  You have to have about 70 exp for you bombers to even bother launching as ASW, and you really need 80 exp before they will attack/hit with any results worthwhile.  Also, ASW attacks by air have ½ the range of air search (so your B-26 with range 7 will only ASW out to 3 = not very far).  That all being the case, you will probably get more/better results by upping your search percentage and lowing their altitude (although at lower altitude, you’re going to take flak, but the Allies are generally never short on the patrol pool).

Most of the American fleet DDs are only rated as 2 ASW.  They’ll usually drive off and maybe damage a contact, but you don’t usually get a kill.  The Clemsons/Flush-Deckers (endurance 4000) have ASW 4, and these are fine in hunter-killer groups.  But with only 4000 endurance, you’ve got to keep them close to fuel supplies (and with such short legs, they’re generally unsuitable for fleet work).

The Dutch DDs are not only lacking in DCs (ASW=2), but their endurance is only 2500.  About the only thing they’re good for is their torps.

Cue your RN DDs.  Most of them are rated at ASW=8.  Between the loads of DCs and their usually favorable exp rating, when they contact a sub, they –will- kill it.  There are a few RN DDs that suck for ASW and AA (can’t remember the class off the top of my head).  Those you might send back, just to conserve the polit points early on.  But over-all, keep most of your RN DDs.

If you don’t send back the ship(s) requested, you’ll pay the indicated polit points, going negative if necessary.  If you go negative, you’ll accumulate polit points at the usual rate, you just won’t be able to do anything until you go positive.  Never send back the CVs.  Probably don’t sent back the DDs.  I don’t mind sending back the occasional R-class BB or the D-class CLs, but anything with legs and AAA, I usually hang onto.

-F-

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Post #: 11
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 4:34:03 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

While rafael is at it, how does one wihtdraw these ships when you cannot afford the PP penalty?


You only get hit in the PP dept if you dont withdraw the required units. Most of the time you'll be able to afford it and keep the ships.


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Post #: 12
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 4:36:41 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, thnx guess I better look on the ships I send back, thanks for the reply!

Terje


(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 13
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 6:25:51 PM   
Snowman999

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

[/quote]

So its better to take the PP damage? I was thinking that those subs might be sunk by air asw as well, and the PP spent to withdraw much needed ground forces from say Java and to PM.
Hmm the more I think I understand the more questions I end up with
Hehe just gotta love that!!

Terje
[/quote]

Players' habits vary, and the RN DDs are awesome early ASW assets, but I go ahead and send everything back that's requested. PPs are precious in the first 6-12 months, and I key on ASW only off the east coast of OZ, to keep the lanes open to PM and Darwin. I usually help this by scraping together 5-8 USN DDs and sending them to Brisbane by the southern route, staying away from Tarawa. Use Sydney to do refits.

I use the PPs I save by sacrificing RN DDs to pull LCU pieces out of the PI and Dutch doomed areas (USMC regiment in PI is particularly useful in late 1942 once it rebuilds), and once I have that done I invest in converting one Aussie LCU to SoWestPac command for use in PM, to hold the Canal, or to back-up/re-take Timor as need be.

That said there will be losses to subs in east-Oz. I send single AKs on Full speed runs to PM, flood any sub contacts with at least two ASW tfs (use MSWs if that's all you have), and reenforce the cargo ranks with spare inventory I send down from Karachi via Perth and across southern Oz to Brisbane.

Later on I DO send back CVs if asked as I don't find the RN CVs useful until they have Corsairs, and by then the USN is flush with carriers. That 1500 PP hit to save a CV is about half what it takes to convert an Aussie infantry division for overseas duty, and those divisions are offensive monsters--pretty close to a USMC division if at full strength, and already located where you need them.

I play against the AI, and none of this is relevant in PBEM, as a human will invade Oz in a heartbeat and you need those restricted command forces to sit tight. (The AI will never invade Austrailia.)

PP policies seem to be one area of the game with wide variation in preference. Experiment for yourself.


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Post #: 14
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 6:51:08 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Hmm the more I think I understand the more questions I end up with
Hehe just gotta love that!!

Terje




(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 15
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/22/2007 10:56:19 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Yes, you can also withdraw from San Francisco.

I thought I remembered someone trying to do that once and finding they couldn't.

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Post #: 16
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/23/2007 12:09:43 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		i've always been able to do it... but i haven't had to yet in my current PBEM under 1.806.

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 17
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/24/2007 3:45:20 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder
Cue your RN DDs. Most of them are rated at ASW=8. Between the loads of DCs and their usually favorable exp rating, when they contact a sub, they –will- kill it. There are a few RN DDs that suck for ASW and AA (can’t remember the class off the top of my head). Those you might send back, just to conserve the polit points early on. But over-all, keep most of your RN DDs.


I came across a document on one of the fan sites on how to play the British. The thing had an acronym for withdrawing RN DDs: SADE. The class that is easiest to spare is the Old S class, followed by the A class, then D, then E classes.

I usually keep my S and A class DDs in Bombay so they can be withdrawn as needed. There aren't many D class, but there are quite a few E class.

Bill

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Post #: 18
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/24/2007 4:03:55 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Here's my 2 cents worth. I never withdrawl anything. I consider the units too valuable. I hoarded my PP when I had them. I was able to save enough to withdrawl most of the valuable Dutch units ( i only lost 2 air units). Most of the ground units were witdrawn only after resistance was futile. I used the US subs because their torpedoes are worthless in early 42. I did not just withdrawl cadres. I got the whole unit unless my opponent overran the position first. It is now late Sept 42 and these units have recovered enough to Be very valuable.

Of course I am now in the hole on PP and will be for a while.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 19
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/24/2007 11:22:41 AM   
goodboyladdie


Posts: 3469
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Rendlesham, Suffolk
Status: offline 		I send back the worst avialble ship in the requested major warship category. I also send back one DD of the S, A or T type early on while I need PPs to rescue units or start moving units forward. Once my opponents start to run out of steam or I run out of the worst DDs I do not send any back. They are too vital. If a CV is requested, I will base the decision completely on the strategic situation. If the PPs are worth more to me at that time I will let the ship go.

6 ship ASW tfs consisting of RN DDs can sweep up any Jap sub offensive in the IO very quickly. You just have to make sure you are not being baited to send them into a Betty/Nell trap. I like to always ensure I have enough Fleet Destroyers available to screen my CVs and have enough in reserve for at least one ASW hunter/killer tf.

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 20
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 7:13:34 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		Need to resurrect this one for a minute, apologies but thought it was better than posting a new thread.

Can i retire damaged ships? I need to retire a CL (Capetown which i have) and two DD's, now i want to retire Vendetta who has 22 Sys damage. when i look her up in the Aden disbanded ship list i do not get a withdraw button. is this due to the damage?

thanks in advance

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Post #: 21
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 7:15:21 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Need to resurrect this one for a minute, apologies but thought it was better than posting a new thread.

Can i retire damaged ships? I need to retire a CL (Capetown which i have) and two DD's, now i want to retire Vendetta who has 22 Sys damage. when i look her up in the Aden disbanded ship list i do not get a withdraw button. is this due to the damage?

thanks in advance



Damaged ships up to SYS=50 (but no flood or fire) can be retired...

isn't Vendetta an Australian ship, though?? You have to retire Brits, no one else will do...

(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 22
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 7:19:43 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		Yep, you can't withdraw Vendetta as she is Australian

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Post #: 23
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 7:43:14 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Yep, you can't withdraw Vendetta as she is Australian


Doh!!! but now im thinking it maybe Vampire, unless shes an OZ too. I also have isis on the way to aden so she'll be getting the chop

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Post #: 24
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 7:55:21 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Yep, you can't withdraw Vendetta as she is Australian


Doh!!! but now im thinking it maybe Vampire, unless shes an OZ too. I also have isis on the way to aden so she'll be getting the chop


Vampire is an Aussie as well, iirc.

(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 25
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 9:11:06 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		The "V"s and "N"s are Austrailan.

-F-

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Post #: 26
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 11:07:37 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Most of the American fleet DDs are only rated as 2 ASW. They’ll usually drive off and maybe damage a contact, but you don’t usually get a kill. The Clemsons/Flush-Deckers (endurance 4100) have ASW 4, and these are fine in hunter-killer groups. But with only 4000 endurance, you’ve got to keep them close to fuel supplies (and with such short legs, they’re generally unsuitable for fleet work).


If your playing CHS, this class of ship upgrades on 1/42 to an ASW value of 8. Many of them are with the USA naval units in the PI/SRA region at the start of the war and should NOT be thrown away. Upgrade them and then watch your opponent's subs run away (or sink).

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Post #: 27
RE: Q: British withdrawal - 6/28/2007 11:09:07 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		Listen to the giants. The Clemson (sp?) class of DD, well those that survive, have just been upgraded and so too the Wikes class :). Local Yokel your bloody underwater pirates will be getting their dues mate!!!

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