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RE: Map & counter mod - 9/17/2007 1:57:42 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I don't know what was used in WW1 - but it wasn't NATO symbols!! lol

The Kriegspiel symbols (the Prussian Staff wargame) are at http://www.kriegsspiel.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=59, and the WW2 German symbols can be viewed at http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/symbols/_symbols_43.html

(in reply to pelle75)
Post #: 31
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/17/2007 6:56:56 AM   
Joel Rauber

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 10/4/2000
From: Brookings, SD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I am not an old counter pusher but do you even need a flag on them? Doesn't the base colour tell you the country?


The flag is just chrome, and like with all chrome, exactly what and how much is a matter of taste


_____________________________

Any relationship between what I say and reality is purely coincidental.

Joel Rauber

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 32
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/17/2007 6:58:22 AM   
Joel Rauber

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 10/4/2000
From: Brookings, SD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK



Though I personally prefer the NATO symbols (obviously), I think that the original counters would look great as well *if* the gradient wasn't used at all, and I'm not particularly fond of some of the color choices. If I get ambitious enough, I may make a set that uses a solid color with everything else that the originals have.



I'd like to see your version without the gradient. So the above sounds like a capital idea to me.


_____________________________

Any relationship between what I say and reality is purely coincidental.

Joel Rauber

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 33
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/17/2007 9:20:14 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, I *think* that I'm done with the NATO version of the ground units for GoA - naval units to come later.

In game screen:


Display of counters:


Grab this mod HERE (316kb)

Unzip to your install directory in the COUNTERS folder. Be sure to back up the originals first.

< Message edited by GJK -- 9/17/2007 9:23:25 AM >

(in reply to Joel Rauber)
Post #: 34
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/17/2007 10:33:49 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Yellow for the Italians??  That's a bit mean......

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 35
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/17/2007 5:05:30 PM   
pkpowers

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 12/12/2000
From: midland,TX
Status: offline 		EXCELLENT WORK! The map combined with the new counters are nice! One suggestion, maybe the shade difference between German and Austrian should be a bit stronger, at a quick glance it's hard to tell plus the flags are similar.

How about a side view or top view for the naval vessels?

Again excellent work, I salute your fine artwork!

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 36
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/17/2007 10:22:27 PM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Yellow for the Italians??  That's a bit mean......


Yup, well... :)

Actually, I just used the same colors that "Paths of Glory" used for its units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pkpowers
One suggestion, maybe the shade difference between German and Austrian should be a bit stronger, at a quick glance it's hard to tell plus the flags are similar.


Discovered that myself last night while playing. I'll work on upping the contrast between the two shades of gray later tonight.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 37
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/18/2007 6:21:43 PM   
pkpowers

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 12/12/2000
From: midland,TX
Status: offline 		I also noticed on my british units the ready box is blacked out, also the brit HQ's symbol is blacked

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 38
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/18/2007 9:39:25 PM   
coreymas

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Ottawa ON Canada
Status: offline 		I have never played the game before but i do have a comment.

Were not the American units "Divisional" in nomenclature but in reality were the size of the other armies Corps?

If so would it not be better to put the American Infantry Corps as Divisions?

Just a thought

Corey

(in reply to pkpowers)
Post #: 39
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/18/2007 10:30:41 PM   
pelle75

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 7/14/2006
Status: offline 		Really nice. I have installed these maps and counters, and while I was perfectly happy with the original graphics, these are even better to me as an old boardgamer (I don't mind the PoG/GWiE style at all).

There are some small problems with the map; those reported above plus one forest hex in western
belgium. I do not know if these problems existed in the original map as well (maybe the image is correct and the hexdata is wrong?).

I also used GIMP to create scaled down versions of the map for the overview maps.

The only detail I am not sure of is the symbol for the assault units, but perhaps that is the correct NATO symbol?

Thanks for sharing this mod with us!

(in reply to coreymas)
Post #: 40
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 12:07:46 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pellen

There are some small problems with the map; those reported above plus one forest hex in western
belgium. I do not know if these problems existed in the original map as well (maybe the image is correct and the hexdata is wrong?).


It's forest on the original map as well - I'll erase it from that hex though since the hex data indicates that it's open.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pellen
I also used GIMP to create scaled down versions of the map for the overview maps.


I did the same (using Photoshop), I'll include that in a final zip once I've made these corrections.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pellen
The only detail I am not sure of is the symbol for the assault units, but perhaps that is the correct NATO symbol?


I forgot what reference I found for that symbol - I believe it means "assault" or "heavy", don't recall which. If someone can find a more appropriate symbol, I'll substitute them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pellen
Thanks for sharing this mod with us!


No problem, thanks for the words.

(in reply to pelle75)
Post #: 41
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 12:08:40 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pkpowers

I also noticed on my british units the ready box is blacked out, also the brit HQ's symbol is blacked


I'm not seeing this on my screen, is anybody else having this problem? Can you take a screenshot of what you have and then either post it or just email it to me?

(in reply to pkpowers)
Post #: 42
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 12:10:55 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coreymas

I have never played the game before but i do have a comment.

Were not the American units "Divisional" in nomenclature but in reality were the size of the other armies Corps?

If so would it not be better to put the American Infantry Corps as Divisions?

Just a thought

Corey


I believe that this is correct (looking at the countersheets from the old board game). I'll make this change as well.

(in reply to coreymas)
Post #: 43
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 1:37:02 AM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		The US corps in the game represent 2 divisions.

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 44
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 7:32:15 AM   
pelle75

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 7/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK

I forgot what reference I found for that symbol - I believe it means "assault" or "heavy", don't recall which. If someone can find a more appropriate symbol, I'll substitute them.



You are probably correct. I just didn't recognize it and failed to find it in any of the NATO symbol lists I had at hand. All ww1 games I have seen uses different symbols for assault units, including one game that uses the empty "unspecified" symbol, so I guess this fits into an old tradition anyway. :)

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 45
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 7:44:08 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I've seen "heavy infantry" use both the short vertical bar in the middle like this, and a heavy left border on the rectangle.

there appears to be no specific Nato symbol for assault infantry - see http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/docs/fm101-5-1/f545con.htm - probably because there is no longer any such seperate type.

(in reply to pelle75)
Post #: 46
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 8:48:59 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, I've made corrections to both the map and counters. The map required a bunch of work; I went hex by hex and matched up what the hex was being reported as including removing the extra forest hex in Belgium. Mountains are only in Switzerland now and the desert (brownish color) only exists where the game says it does.

Note to Mr. Hunter: There's several hexes that are reading as "sea" when the map shows them as land. These include most of Norway, Sweden and hexes in Finland as well as all of western North Africa. I'm guessing that perhaps that is so that the AI doesn't go wandering up there? Also, Malta, Sardina and Corsica show as all sea. Several hexes in Turkey read the same, including 31,41 & 32,41. Also, Denmark's capital is missing and should be hex 24,7 unless the capital wasn't there back then or for game purposes it should just be an open hex.

Grab the map at ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/GunsOfAugust/GOAMap_2.zip

--------------

Counters: Updated the British. Seems that the program didn't like any white being on them so I changed the white boxes, icons, etc to a very light gray and they seem ok now.

Note to Mr. Hunter: All of the British units use white lettering/text *except* for arty units which have black like everyone else. Either all black for everyone or all white would make them all uniform in appearance. If you do go with white, I'll darken the shade of my counters as the white doesn't read too well on them as I have them now.

Grab the counters at: ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/GunsOfAugust/GOA_COUNTERS_2.zip

Thanks for the feedback, if anyone else notices anything astray, let me know. ;)

< Message edited by GJK -- 9/19/2007 8:50:55 AM >

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 47
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 9:51:43 AM   
pelle75

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 7/14/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks! They looks very good. I don't mind different text colors on the counters really as long as they are readable.

I had a quick look at the terrain, and I can understand that it is a pain to check the terrain
everywhere... I found the following hexes that still have different terrain on the map and in the text:
28,28 27,18 20,32
And these two hexes have only a tiny bit of the correct terrain drawn on them:
16,20 17,10
(Again of course this may be something that is wrong in the data not the map(s)...)

It is funny that the south of Sweden is land, but the north is sea. Not that it should matter I guess.

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 48
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 10:01:41 AM   
Noakesy

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		Wonderful to see the NATO symbols and map work that you've done here GJK, I'll look at using these in future as they are my preference, but as someone said earlier it's down to individual preferences and not everyone would like this. Interesting question earlier on re NATO symbols, I presume pre-nato that similar symbols were used anyway but they just pinched the name?

(in reply to pelle75)
Post #: 49
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/19/2007 10:42:21 AM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Note to Mr. Hunter: There's several hexes that are reading as "sea" when the map shows them as land. These include most of Norway, Sweden and hexes in Finland as well as all of western North Africa. I'm guessing that perhaps that is so that the AI doesn't go wandering up there?


Actually its just because they weren't in the game so I didn't bother changing their default, which was ocean.

quote:

Also, Malta, Sardina and Corsica show as all sea.


Same reason


quote:

Also, Denmark's capital is missing and should be hex 24,7 unless the capital wasn't there back then or for game purposes it should just be an open hex.


Denmark isn't in the game so there is no Copenhagen city.


quote:


Several hexes in Turkey read the same, including 31,41 & 32,41.


I'll be checking those and other glitches.


quote:

Note to Mr. Hunter: All of the British units use white lettering/text *except* for arty units which have black like everyone else. Either all black for everyone or all white would make them all uniform in appearance. If you do go with white, I'll darken the shade of my counters as the white doesn't read too well on them as I have them now.


Artwork is not my area.  If you guys think my UI leaves something to be desired you should see my hand-drawn maps.  I'll look at the text colour but I have to base the text colour on the original artwork.


(in reply to Noakesy)
Post #: 50
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/20/2007 3:00:49 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pellen

Thanks! They looks very good. I don't mind different text colors on the counters really as long as they are readable.

I had a quick look at the terrain, and I can understand that it is a pain to check the terrain
everywhere... I found the following hexes that still have different terrain on the map and in the text:
28,28 27,18 20,32
And these two hexes have only a tiny bit of the correct terrain drawn on them:
16,20 17,10
(Again of course this may be something that is wrong in the data not the map(s)...)

It is funny that the south of Sweden is land, but the north is sea. Not that it should matter I guess.


Thanks pellen, I'll try and work on this tonight or tomorrow.

(in reply to pelle75)
Post #: 51
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/20/2007 5:42:00 AM   
SlickWilhelm


Posts: 1854
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Rochester, MN
Status: offline 		GJK, I love the new look of your map & counters. The originals were good, but I find your's even more appropriate. Outstanding work, sir! 

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 52
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/20/2007 6:41:33 PM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, the map has been updated. Changes include:

• Changed terrain types for hexes that pellen pointed out in the post above.
• Removed the hex grid from all non-playable hexes, including sea hexes to avoid confusion.
• Added fort(ress) symbols around fortified cities for easy reference. I *think* that I got them all (let me know if I missed one) however, some of the longer city names cut off the text in the readout that states the fort value, so I can't be for sure on those cities.
• Darkened the hex grid just a tad.

Grab it at: ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/GunsOfAugust/GOAMap_3.zip

(older versions have been removed from the server)

(in reply to SlickWilhelm)
Post #: 53
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/23/2007 4:37:11 PM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline 		Hi!

Just tried your map...

Very nice.. easy on the eyes.

Well done!

BTW... it would be nice to have a "mod" section where these things can be posted and not lost in the downward spiral of posts...

Ray (alias Lava)

< Message edited by Lava -- 9/23/2007 4:56:36 PM >

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 54
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/23/2007 9:46:02 PM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		Agreed, the mod map and the two counter sets both look great and thank you very much to both of those involved.


(in reply to *Lava*)
Post #: 55
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/23/2007 10:01:25 PM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for making the game and thanks for making it so that a mod could be made to suit individual tastes. By the way, have you thought about doing a WWII ETO in this same format? Yes, I know WWII has been done to death but I like the approach that this system uses.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 56
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/23/2007 10:22:24 PM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		Well, there's other designers who already do great games on WW2.  I generally like to work on more ignored subjects.  And I know there's lots of people out there clamoring for games on the Balkan Wars, the Russo-Japanese War, the Russian Civil War, the Spanish Civil War and the Chaco War :-)



(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 57
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/24/2007 12:39:18 AM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline 		Well...

It's a really nice simulation of war.

Hope we see it again...

Ray (alias Lava)

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 58
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/24/2007 12:42:41 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

Well, there's other designers who already do great games on WW2.


Frank probably has to say this due to teh designers' code of ethics....but of course he's wrong, and hte rest of us arent' bound by arcane secret handshakes

There are no "great" games of WW2 at a strategic level at all IMO. There's just a few barely adequate ones that one is forced to play because there's nothing better.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 59
RE: Map & counter mod - 9/24/2007 12:54:46 AM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline 		Indeed...

However, to do WWII he'd have to start hiring some folks to join his "one man band."



Ray (alias Lava)

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 60
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