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Idea to stop bitching - 10/12/2007 7:20:08 PM

PunkReaper
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I noticed on other forums that a lot of the messages are concerned with "When will ..... be released?" , or "I have been waiting ? years for... to be released " and then various messages berating matrix or defending them. Surely it would be great if Matrix could put up a list of future releases in order of priorty or order of probable release dates, then when we see Hornet Leader released we can see that, for example John Tiller's Battleground Series is next in line followed by EiA. No dates need be mentioned and the list, I am sure will change from time to time, (updates could be encorporated in the list) this may possibly help people cope with the disappointment of a missed release date etc....

Post #: 1

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/12/2007 7:56:59 PM

Terminus
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And then the whining will be ever shriller... I think Matrix should keep doing what they're doing, and people should start to get it into their skulls that Matrix doesn't give out release dates.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to PunkReaper)

Post #: 2

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/12/2007 8:06:06 PM

PunkReaper
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And then the whining will be ever shriller... I think Matrix should keep doing what they're doing, and people should start to get it into their skulls that Matrix doesn't give out release dates.

I wasn't suggesting that they give out release dates just that they gave out a list of priorities. In the John Tiller's Battleground Series forum Erik says that this release is now there top priorty, hence it WILL BE their next release. I just think it would help if people knew what their priorities were and then they wouldn't be expecting EiA to be released soon when Matrix may have a list of other titles closer to release.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 3

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/12/2007 8:37:20 PM

cdbeck
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I don't think it works like that. As Martix has a lot of different developers, "priorities" depend on the progress that each developer makes versus their setbacks. For example, I think that Empire in Arms would have been on the "priority" list a long time ago, but got pushed back from random problems and developer set-backs.

I really think it is the forum poster that should change and not Matrix. Ranting about release dates and constantly going back and forth about it doesn't do any good and makes everyone feel bitter. Personally, I only know of ONE real egregious release date problem that has plagued Matrix. And once Empire in Arms releases, for good or for bad, that will be one albatross off of their necks.

SoM

< Message edited by Son_of_Montfort -- 10/12/2007 8:40:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to PunkReaper)

Post #: 4

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/12/2007 8:45:49 PM

BlindOldUmp
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And then the whining will be ever shriller... I think Matrix should keep doing what they're doing, and people should start to get it into their skulls that Matrix doesn't give out release dates.

I wasn't suggesting that they give out release dates just that they gave out a list of priorities. In the John Tiller's Battleground Series forum Erik says that this release is now there top priorty, hence it WILL BE their next release. I just think it would help if people knew what their priorities were and then they wouldn't be expecting EiA to be released soon when Matrix may have a list of other titles closer to release.

Actually - as one of the whiny culprits - I don't think anything is really going to stop the 2nd guessing and complaining. In that I don't HAVE to reply to the complaining, I find it interesting reading what people think programmers and producers can do. I think Eric et. al. are going to release the games when they (see fit/deem it ready) no matter what some of us customers think. Not any body's fault, no conspiracy just Real Life. As I mentioned elsewhere, If we weren't complaining about the release not being out we would be complaining because the programmers aren't superhuman wizards and haven't gotten the bugs out of the enhancement yet. It certainly isn't fair. I get it from my end as well. You establish a "reasonable" deadline and real life sticks it's snotty nose in your plans. Then all the people who are eagerly awaiting your widget get all bent out of shape and slow you down. We - the eager would be customer, want our widget YESTERDAY. This is after all the era of JIT stocking etc.

Knowing that I am Top Priority doesn't necessarily mean that I am First In Line. That may mean that I go in a pile that gets followed up on twice a day instead of twice a week. Depends on how many Top Priority situations there are. Some Top Priority situations are not made public. Ask my boss

(in reply to PunkReaper)

Post #: 5

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 1:20:26 AM

ravinhood
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Yah ever had deep fried asparagus? Man it's great. ;)

(in reply to BlindOldUmp)

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RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 1:32:17 AM

Awac835
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper
I wasn't suggesting that they give out release dates just that they gave out a list of priorities. In the John Tiller's Battleground Series forum Erik says that this release is now there top priorty, hence it WILL BE their next release. I just think it would help if people knew what their priorities were and then they wouldn't be expecting EiA to be released soon when Matrix may have a list of other titles closer to release.

NO NO NO, Advanced Tactics WILL BE there next release

It would be nice with release dates, but then again, its the computer industry we know better then that

(in reply to PunkReaper)

Post #: 7

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 1:43:59 AM

Sarge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper
this may possibly help people cope with the disappointment of a missed release date etc....

I doubt it , the people who come un-glued because a video game was delayed need to put things in prospective and Matrix can't instill that .

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Post #: 8

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 1:47:11 AM

KG Erwin
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I learned first hand that when anticipated release dates don't pan out, there's hell to pay.

For a hypercritical customer base like this one, it is better to wait to issue a quality release, rather than rush something out and being crucified for a half-finished product.

In the wargaming world, trying to provide instant gratification is a bad business model. This should be common knowledge by now.

(in reply to PunkReaper)

Post #: 9

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 4:14:35 AM

Terl
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Yah ever had deep fried asparagus? Man it's great. ;)

No, sounds interesting.

Nice post from far left field

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 10

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 4:31:23 AM

ravinhood
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terl

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Yah ever had deep fried asparagus? Man it's great. ;)

No, sounds interesting. Nice post from far left field

Yeah man dip em in some melted butter and then in corn meal and drop em in a deep frying bucket or deep frying pan for about a minute. Scrumdillyisous. ;)

(in reply to Terl)

Post #: 11

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 5:16:49 AM

rogueusmc
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terl

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Yah ever had deep fried asparagus? Man it's great. ;)

No, sounds interesting. Nice post from far left field

Yeah man dip em in some melted butter and then in corn meal and drop em in a deep frying bucket or deep frying pan for about a minute. Scrumdillyisous. ;)

it's scrumdillyUMsious

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(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 12

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 5:24:04 AM

Jeffrey H.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Yah ever had deep fried asparagus? Man it's great. ;)

No but I'll tell you something I had recently that was suprisingly good, fried pickles !

Once you get your sponge wrapped around the concept of pickle and warm together, (now don't go off on a tangent here) they are suprisingly good.

Makes you want beer even more and that's always fun !

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 13

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 5:59:51 AM

rogueusmc
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Fried pickles are great!!!

_____________________________

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Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

Post #: 14

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 6:26:42 AM

cdbeck
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Yumm.... Fried dill pickles... both unthinkably salty and remarkably dilly. With some ranch sauce they can both please your palate and clog your arteries.

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 15

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 7:33:59 AM

KG Erwin
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Home-roasted peanuts are a bit healthier (no salt added). These CAN be microwaved, and while you're waiting, try shelling these on your own for awhile.

Found this vegetarian recipe on the web. Sounds yummy:

1 1/2 tbl olive oil
1 sm onion, finely chopped
4 x scallions
trimmed and finely chopped
6 x rocotillo chile peppers, seeded and chopped
OR 1/2 green bell pepper, chopped
1 med red bell pepper, chopped
3 x cloves garlic, minced
1/2 tsp ground cumin
1/2 tsp dried oregano
2 med tomatoes, seeded and chopped
3 tbl chopped fresh cilantro
6 tbl chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley
3 tbl tomato paste
2 cup vegetable broth
2 med potatoes
peeled and cut into 1-inch pieces
30 oz canned chickpeas, rinsed and drained
Salt and ground black pepper, to taste

Method :
In large nonstick skillet, heat oil over medium heat. Add onion, scallions, chile peppers, bell pepper, garlic, cumin and oregano. Cook, stirring often, until vegetables are soft but not brown, 5 to 6 minutes. Add tomatoes, cilantro and 3 tablespoons parsley. Cook, stirring occasionally, until most of the liquid has evaporated and mixture is thick and fragrant, 5 minutes.
Stir in tomato paste; cook 1 minute. Stir in broth and bring to a boil over high heat. Stir in potatoes. Reduce heat to medium and simmer 6 minutes. Stir in chickpeas and simmer until potatoes are tender and sauce is thick and flavorful, about 6 minutes. Season with salt and black pepper. Garnish with remaining parsley.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 10/13/2007 7:51:15 AM >

(in reply to PunkReaper)

Post #: 16

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 8:41:22 AM

donkuchi19
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Home-roasted peanuts are a bit healthier (no salt added). These CAN be microwaved, and while you're waiting, try shelling these on your own for awhile.

Found this vegetarian recipe on the web. Sounds yummy:

1 1/2 tbl olive oil
1 sm onion, finely chopped
4 x scallions
trimmed and finely chopped
6 x rocotillo chile peppers, seeded and chopped
OR 1/2 green bell pepper, chopped
1 med red bell pepper, chopped
3 x cloves garlic, minced
1/2 tsp ground cumin
1/2 tsp dried oregano
2 med tomatoes, seeded and chopped
3 tbl chopped fresh cilantro
6 tbl chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley
3 tbl tomato paste
2 cup vegetable broth
2 med potatoes
peeled and cut into 1-inch pieces
30 oz canned chickpeas, rinsed and drained
Salt and ground black pepper, to taste

Method :
In large nonstick skillet, heat oil over medium heat. Add onion, scallions, chile peppers, bell pepper, garlic, cumin and oregano. Cook, stirring often, until vegetables are soft but not brown, 5 to 6 minutes. Add tomatoes, cilantro and 3 tablespoons parsley. Cook, stirring occasionally, until most of the liquid has evaporated and mixture is thick and fragrant, 5 minutes.
Stir in tomato paste; cook 1 minute. Stir in broth and bring to a boil over high heat. Stir in potatoes. Reduce heat to medium and simmer 6 minutes. Stir in chickpeas and simmer until potatoes are tender and sauce is thick and flavorful, about 6 minutes. Season with salt and black pepper. Garnish with remaining parsley.

I think this is the fastest that I have ever seen a thread go off topic!!!

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 17

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 12:29:51 PM

Charles2222
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And then the whining will be ever shriller... I think Matrix should keep doing what they're doing, and people should start to get it into their skulls that Matrix doesn't give out release dates.

I wasn't suggesting that they give out release dates just that they gave out a list of priorities. In the John Tiller's Battleground Series forum Erik says that this release is now there top priorty, hence it WILL BE their next release. I just think it would help if people knew what their priorities were and then they wouldn't be expecting EiA to be released soon when Matrix may have a list of other titles closer to release.

I think the term "top priority" itself is debateable. For some people the largest project is always the top priority, because it's taking more resources. It needn't mean that it's the next out the door. Even if game A was top priority in every sense at some stage, once a certain amount of work is done a good number of the team may be sent elsewhere for another game, which of course could mean that game A has some one or two aspects it's wating on, which especially if the staff is cut, even then it may not mean it's the next out the door.

Besides, then people will just complain that their game isn't top priority.

(in reply to PunkReaper)

Post #: 18

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 2:55:53 PM

mack2
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This is perhaps aimed somewhat at me (if not, then check out the HCE forum for why I might think so).

My main problems are:
1) Multiple "It will be done on X day" or "We will make an annoucement on X day" posts.
2) X day rolls around with zero information from matrix. They took a hell of a lot of prodding and some "harsh" words before they decided to tell their community what the hold up was.
3) Excuse offered was "Printing error" in the manual. Everything else was done. Turned out the error was actually the manual not being done at all, and only at step 2 of a 3 step process.

As an primer, the first "solid" release date was June/July this year. The game itself has been done now since very early July. (It's in the "Release" thread which was started in 2006). I think the coders have spent the extra time fine tuning/adding platform pictures, doing the installer up nice and pretty.

Just read this thread.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1552719

It should give you an idea of my problems. Those series of messages were not the first time Matrix needed to be prodded to give information.

Says "Matrix and AGSI finished edits on Manual. Game 4 weeks from shipping. Stand by for official matrix press release." In late August. A month later (late Sept), no release, not even a single official matrix post regarding the game until one of the game coders (not a matrix staffer) tells us there was a problem with the manual. The closest we get to an official mention is their newsletter saying they tentiatevely hope to release the game in the "coming weeks".

In early/mid october I make a honest to goodness joke about if the game would be out for Christmas. A few days later (and around a 2 and a half months since the annoucement said there would be an official press release and then a game release), a Matrix staffer finally comes on and says "The plan is to have the game out by Christmas". The plan!?! The game has been done for FOUR months now, and apparently that's still not enough time to cobble together a manual in time for Christmas.

Were you waiting for a a game that was done four months ago only to be told that it might take another 2-3 months because the manual was not done in the last 4 months and still might not be ready for Christmas time would you be annoyed? Especially when months go past with no information from Matrix? Also when we see something like the "Hornet Leader" game get announced and then released (presumably with the same standard of manual they feel they need to include with HCE) less than 3 months later with no delays, problems.

Matrix say they have "standards" that preclude things such as sending out games with non-professional manuals, but when their games are being held up by close to half a year by the manual alone, perhaps it's time to either pay for more staff or look at how their get their manuals made.

< Message edited by mack2 -- 10/13/2007 3:06:14 PM >

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 19

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 4:00:36 PM

BlindOldUmp
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
<SNIP>
Makes you want beer even more and that's always fun !

Did somebody say BEER!!!!! Guinness Draft here please! Thanks.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

Post #: 20

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 8:15:34 PM

ravinhood
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And then there's my Football Sunday 15 minute enchalada's ;) Need 1 can wolf brand chili, 1 can van camps pork n beans then pour in about 1/4 cup of whoreshire sause and about 6 to 8 drops of lemon juice (that kind in the yellow plastic containers) and a teaspoon of margarine into large mixing bowl. Stir and mix thouroughly.Cook in micorwave around 4 minutes, then take four 6" corn tortilla's and put them in a gallon freezer bag one at each corner of the freezer bag and micro wave for 1 minute. Then take 1 slice kraft cheese and 1 slice monzerrla cheeze and fold in half twice and then break each one into four sections. Then take one of the tortillias (after they are done) and put a HEAPING table spoon of the chili across the tortilla, add one of the 1/4 slices of kraft cheese and monzerlla and then roll and make sure seam is on bottom of plate where you place it. Do this for all four tortilla's, then cover tortillas with more chili across top and add chopped onions (if you like onions) on top of each. Re-microwave for another minute and walla Sunday Afternoon Football 15 minute Enchalada's. ;) You should have enough chili to make two servings of this, so, around 8 total enchalada's.

(in reply to BlindOldUmp)

Post #: 21

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 8:57:01 PM

BlindOldUmp
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yep - that'l make you want beer - if your football team hasn't already.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 22

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 9:27:22 PM

sterckxe
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skip_Reed
Not any body's fault, no conspiracy just Real Life. As I mentioned elsewhere, If we weren't complaining about the release not being out we would be complaining because the programmers aren't superhuman wizards and haven't gotten the bugs out of the enhancement yet. It certainly isn't fair. I get it from my end as well. You establish a "reasonable" deadline and real life sticks it's snotty nose in your plans. Then all the people who are eagerly awaiting your widget get all bent out of shape and slow you down. We - the eager would be customer, want our widget YESTERDAY. This is after all the era of JIT stocking etc.

Nice summary

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to BlindOldUmp)

Post #: 23

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 10:12:32 PM

105mm Howitzer
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Whoreshire sauce ?? I certainly hope you meant Woercestershire, cause the other way round, well...Whores aren't cheap.

ps: nevertheless, pretty good recipe there ravinhood. Have u tried creamy broccoli ? Good for the intestines, too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

And then there's my Football Sunday 15 minute enchalada's ;) Need 1 can wolf brand chili, 1 can van camps pork n beans then pour in about 1/4 cup of whoreshire sause and about 6 to 8 drops of lemon juice (that kind in the yellow plastic containers) and a teaspoon of margarine into large mixing bowl. Stir and mix thouroughly.Cook in micorwave around 4 minutes, then take four 6" corn tortilla's and put them in a gallon freezer bag one at each corner of the freezer bag and micro wave for 1 minute. Then take 1 slice kraft cheese and 1 slice monzerrla cheeze and fold in half twice and then break each one into four sections. Then take one of the tortillias (after they are done) and put a HEAPING table spoon of the chili across the tortilla, add one of the 1/4 slices of kraft cheese and monzerlla and then roll and make sure seam is on bottom of plate where you place it. Do this for all four tortilla's, then cover tortillas with more chili across top and add chopped onions (if you like onions) on top of each. Re-microwave for another minute and walla Sunday Afternoon Football 15 minute Enchalada's. ;) You should have enough chili to make two servings of this, so, around 8 total enchalada's.

_____________________________

"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" - Publius Renatus, 390 A.D.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 24

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/13/2007 10:48:30 PM

ravinhood
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Is it Woercestershire sause? I coulda swore it read whoreshire sause. ;) Anyway it's by French's

And I like broccoli and velvetta cheese. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 10/13/2007 10:55:33 PM >

(in reply to 105mm Howitzer)

Post #: 25

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/14/2007 12:30:46 AM

Harvester
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I once owned a business where our customers sometimes had unrealistic ideas about what and when our company should be doing. We couldn't understand why they felt that way since we were honestly trying to do things as best we could. That company is now closed. I'll NEVER make that mistake again.

It's not a good sign if people are complaining. The problem (if it's happening it's a problem) should be assessed and somehow addressed, either through better communications or by any other means necessary. Ignore it and in the long run it will come back to bite you.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 26

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/14/2007 7:26:35 PM

Jeffrey H.
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From: San Diego, Ca.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

And then there's my Football Sunday 15 minute enchalada's ;) Need 1 can wolf brand chili, 1 can van camps pork n beans then pour in about 1/4 cup of whoreshire sause and about 6 to 8 drops of lemon juice (that kind in the yellow plastic containers) and a teaspoon of margarine into large mixing bowl. Stir and mix thouroughly.Cook in micorwave around 4 minutes, then take four 6" corn tortilla's and put them in a gallon freezer bag one at each corner of the freezer bag and micro wave for 1 minute. Then take 1 slice kraft cheese and 1 slice monzerrla cheeze and fold in half twice and then break each one into four sections. Then take one of the tortillias (after they are done) and put a HEAPING table spoon of the chili across the tortilla, add one of the 1/4 slices of kraft cheese and monzerlla and then roll and make sure seam is on bottom of plate where you place it. Do this for all four tortilla's, then cover tortillas with more chili across top and add chopped onions (if you like onions) on top of each. Re-microwave for another minute and walla Sunday Afternoon Football 15 minute Enchalada's. ;) You should have enough chili to make two servings of this, so, around 8 total enchalada's.

Now there's a dogs breakfast of a meal.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 27

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/14/2007 8:35:03 PM

PunkReaper
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From: England
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I think some people have got off topic here.

However interesting recipies takes me back to my student days when the only worries were what to eat while sitting in front of the sports all day......did they have sport on all day in those days or is my memory fading.....did they have sport on all day in those days or is my memory fading..did they have sport on ....yep its the memory.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

Post #: 28

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/15/2007 12:24:56 AM

geozero
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The funny thing is... sometimes I'll ask that "when is it going to be released" not to bitch or whine, but simply to get an idea. I don't frequent the boards as much as I once did or would like to (RL gets in the way), but sometimes I stop by and I see a new title, or something that I was really hoping for... so I ask.

Everyone always assumes that asking questions on boards is automatically whining. It's not. It's one of the reasons we have boards. To better communicate.

_____________________________

JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

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Post #: 29

RE: Idea to stop bitching - 10/15/2007 2:08:49 AM

cdbeck
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