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BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/17/2007 1:06:39 AM   
bobogoboom


Posts: 3799
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		My first game as the japanesse and am just looking for some advice with what to do with the economy. Are there any airplane factories i should upgrade from the start. i turned off merchant shipyards to save hi because everyone says you don't need any more merchant shipping Do CVE's use merchant yards. what should i expand? are there any airplane types i should stop producing right away?

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RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/17/2007 1:30:34 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		You should treat the Japanese economy the same as you would in a stock game - nothing in the Japanese economy/industry has been altered...

B
quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

My first game as the japanesse and am just looking for some advice with what to do with the economy. Are there any airplane factories i should upgrade from the start. i turned off merchant shipyards to save hi because everyone says you don't need any more merchant shipping Do CVE's use merchant yards. what should i expand? are there any airplane types i should stop producing right away?


(in reply to bobogoboom)
Post #: 2
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/17/2007 1:36:22 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		CVE's use merchant yards...............Halt Musashi at start to allow accellerating the 2 first CV's. Junyo and her sister. Accellerate the 1st 2 CVE's. Once Junyo gets to 20 days (around Feb 42) put her to normal. OH YEAH......halt Shinano day 1.

Maximize your a/c industry. PDU's on?

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 3
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/17/2007 1:44:45 AM   
bobogoboom


Posts: 3799
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Maximize your a/c industry. PDU's on?

Yeah.
So i am guessing turning merch yards off was a bad idea. oh well get to go spend 30 minutes correcting that when i get hom

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Post #: 4
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/17/2007 2:32:32 AM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		I think the concensus that Japan has more merchant shipping than it needs at the start is right. This means that you can switch off some merchant shipyards so as to save HI - but you don't want to switch them all off unless you decide to stop construction of all merchant ships, including CVE's (unlikely).

My production strategy is to shut down some merchant yards, and to halt construction of selected merchantmen: in particular the small AK's. Because bigger capacity ships shift more cargo for the same outlay in fuel, the small AK's are less efficient, so I don't want to waste valuable shipbuilding points producing 'em.

Having stopped some construction and some yards, I then watch what's happening to my accumulated merchant shipbuilding points. If these are reducing, merchant construction is absorbing more shipbuilding points than I'm producing in the merchant yards. I then have a choice: either I continue to spend my reserve of accumulated shipbuilding points or I try to balance ship construction with production of shipbuilding points. I do that either by halting construction of more merchantmen, or by re-starting some halted merchant yards. This isn't an exact science because each merchant yard is either switched off or in full production. However, with a bit of careful tweaking I've ended up building only the merchantmen I want with no drain on the stockpile of merchant shipbuilding points. Later I may want to build a bigger reserve of such points by switching all yards back on, but for now (1942, Q1) my production priorities lie elsewhere.

FWIW, my 2p.

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RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/17/2007 2:44:49 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		PDU's on. Build Helens, Zero's, Betty's, Kates, Vals, Lilly's and lots of Tabby's. I produce 40 Tabby's per month until every IJN transport is upgraded and the pool is 400. Then I switch over all but 15 of them to something else.

I produce Jakes, Alfs only for float planes. Roughly 20 per. All excess goes to something else.

180 Zeros
150 Oscar 1's
60 Helens
40 Betty's
80 Kates
80 Vals
20 Topsy's
60 Lilly's
40 Sonia's
25 Emily's
Default recon plane production (I do not mess with it)

You need to double your armament production at least. I increase all the small ones on day 1 to at least 32. I then alternate increaseing them each month (supply has alot to do with this). This is critical to being able to build your units up to strength quickly. Vehicle production is slightly increased (IIRC, I increase to about 25).

Repair yards are critical too. If it is not at 100, it soon will be with me. I only slightly increase naval or merchant shipyards. These are secondary to the above changes. Only once my basic changes are finished do I mess with anything else.

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Post #: 6
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/17/2007 3:00:42 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		If you are going to switch Merchant SB Centers to Naval, it is best to switch all of the small ones, and maybe do some judicious expansion, rather than switch a couple of big ones. A bunch of little ones will repair faster. The whole point is to get more NSB points fast, as you are in the hole here from the start.

I think I converted all of the ones smaller than 8, and expanded the smallest ones to that size. I added maybe 100 NSB centers. It doesn't take much, but doing some makes a big difference to what you are able to do re: acceleration of CVs and DDs.

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Post #: 7
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/21/2007 3:41:17 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Economy Notes:
1.  I really ramp up the repair yards (by abouy 250-300) so what few ships you have can be reapired a keck of a lot faster

2.  Expand Naval Shipyards by about 100-150 points.  I also convert the smaller merchant yards.

3.  Expand the plane industry so you are building many more Zeros (200) and Oscars (150) to start with.  With Big B's changes, the Oscar is a useful aircraft.

4.  I like to build the Topsys as well as the long-range Tina transport. 

5.  I like to build a large pool of Lily/Sally-Helen/Betty before the newer models come out.  Can never have too many of them lying around in 1943-1944 when things are getting scary!

6.  Keep your merchant yards rolling.  Those CVEs are USEFUL!  Additionally, you will eventually want every TK and AO they can produce.  You will need them.

7.  Acelerate your CV/CVLs and the new DDs.  I, in particular, love the Moon-Class AA DDs!  They rock! 

8.  I expand Armaments and Vehicles about the same as described above.

9.  Don't forget to have your CS-to-CVL convertable ships in Osaka on December 31, 1942. 

Biggest safety tip is to SLOWLY do this expansion over a period of the first 4-6 months.  Watch your levels so your economy doesn't freeze up.  I had that happen in my first PDU campaign against Moses.  It was REALLY bad for a period of about 3-5 months as I fixed things.

I seem to remember a basic Japanese Economy Guide over at Spooky's website.  You might check that out too...


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Post #: 8
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/21/2007 10:58:42 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline 		In my only learning game at playing Japan (using this Mod but only against AI) I found I never had enough TKs to haul the oil back to HI and then some fuel to SRA. So keep a lot of the Merchant shipyards running to build accelerated TKs (as John mentioned in previous post). I had to use the large AKs to move fuel from HI to the central and southern Pacific.

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RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/21/2007 11:06:36 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks Tallyho!  One NEVER has enough TK or AO during the war.  Though inefficient, I use AK as well to haul Oil whenever needed.



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Post #: 10
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/21/2007 11:11:25 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

...

3.  Expand the plane industry so you are building many more Zeros (200) and Oscars (150) to start with.  With Big B's changes, the Oscar is a useful aircraft.
...

I am glad to hear that the Oscar seems to be doing well. In the testing I did I thought it performed pretty good for it's time and place (with superb 80+ aircrew of course). In ver 1.3 it took the Zero Bonus to help it, but in 1.4 I think it works well enough without the ZB.

Of course everything in the WitP engine depends upon numbers engaged and a bit of luck...there will be times (about 1 out of 6 I reckon) that you get spanked when you think you shouldn't - but that's die rolls.

I would be interested to hear any feedback from anyone on their air combat experiences and opinions.

Thanks,
B

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 11
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/24/2007 5:47:49 PM   
Ken Estes

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Seattle
Status: offline 		How did you learn that the MerchSB builds the CVEs? I was wondering if AOs cost naval or mech SB credits to accel?? Same for naval auxiliaries?

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 12
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/25/2007 9:20:36 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Big B,

It is still early days against the AI but the Nates are much more competitive than I had anticipated.  So far they easily dominate my Buffalo I over Singapore air space.

Alfred

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Post #: 13
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/26/2007 4:17:34 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		Wow!

Can I frame this post for all those who keep saying Pete's are useless???

The other thing is - I would guess your Buffalos are overworked and tired?

Thanks for the sitrep.

B
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Big B,

It is still early days against the AI but the Nates are much more competitive than I had anticipated.  So far they easily dominate my Buffalo I over Singapore air space.

Alfred


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 14
RE: BigB/Jap Economy Question - 10/26/2007 6:41:37 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Thanks Tallyho!  One NEVER has enough TK or AO during the war.  Though inefficient, I use AK as well to haul Oil whenever needed.





You can´t use AKs to haul oil, only fuel. To transport oil you need TKs. Perhaps AOs work too.

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Post #: 15
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