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RE: Invisible Saved Game Files??

 
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RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/23/2007 9:38:30 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		@ MATRIX:

BTW just to keep up the Vista nitpicks.. In your Vista testing how did you possibly miss the Vista UAC popup right when you start the game (Vista User Access Control) warning that an unidentified program wants access?

Hornet Leader, for example, is setup with the same basic initial menu structure and does not give that popup error.

Granted, its just a small delay and one click, but again its tacky for a program claiming Vista Compatibility...

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Post #: 31
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/23/2007 9:53:37 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
Yes, it has been the recommendation since Windows 95 which was over a decade ago.
But to be clear, using a different installation path other than /Program Files, isn't actually a problem with Vista. It's only a problem because then your not forced to test compatibility with where Applications and Games are supposed to go. Installing into that directory (/Program Files) is actually then the problem for some of your games. My new machines have one gigantic C-Drive and I install everything to /Program Files since thats where 99% of it installs to begin with. It also keeps the root tidy instead of having hundreds of vendor directories there.


Yep, I understand that, which is precisely why it wasn't caught.

quote:


The best way to achieve that, IMHO, is to develop the games on Vista. Backwards compatibility between Vista and XP is far far easier than forwards compatibility from XP to Vista. This is furthermore the case because many of your developers (I know of at least one) are already using tools that are technically obsolete from an XP standpoint so the likelihood of error is even greater then. By running development software and packaging tools made for Vista you maximize compatibility.


Vista is definitely where things are heading, but it's currently a small share of the market, particularly for wargamers. Secondly, we have games coming out now that have been in development for YEARS before Vista even existed in public beta form, so that was hardly an option.

quote:

In a perfect world the developers would each have their own Vista test system.


That perfect world unfortunately doesn't exist in a niche market like wargaming. A few developers do have Vista systems now, for the rest we do the Vista testing until that is possible.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 32
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/23/2007 9:55:28 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Veldor,

How would you like to volunteer as a Vista Compatibility Tester?

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 33
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/23/2007 10:18:01 PM   
Veldor


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From: King's Landing
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Veldor,

How would you like to volunteer as a Vista Compatibility Tester?

Regards,

- Erik


Sure thing, you can start by signing me up for the Lock 'n Load beta, no free copy needed (Though I won't turn down free games, money, or all expense paid trips to the caribbean should you offer them) ...

As for AT thus far I've seen no Vista issues in all my playing outside of those mentioned above.

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Post #: 34
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/23/2007 11:28:04 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
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From: King's Landing
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Veldor,

How would you like to volunteer as a Vista Compatibility Tester?

Regards,

- Erik


Erik, I just sent you the most unbelievably long PM and it said your box was full.

Since the window closed I lost the message (doh!).

Perhaps you could PM me an email address?

Veldor

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Post #: 35
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 6:49:33 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Argh, it must have just filled up. You can e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com, sorry about that.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 36
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 7:13:18 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Argh, it must have just filled up. You can e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com, sorry about that.

You mean again, don't you? It was full, just two days ago, when I sent you that email for help in the TOAW III support forum. I had the same problem Veldor did in having my message disappear after the full inbox notice.

On that note, wouldn't it be so much less frustrating to users if the forum PM software made a quick check to see if there is room in the recipient's Inbox before they draft the message? Or, perhaps allow a browser's back button to go back to the message, rather than a refreshed page?

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Post #: 37
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 11:48:20 AM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline 		I suspect that Matrix and Vic would better leave that issue unattended and wait for MS to remove such bugs from Vista - because invisible files in the navigator are just that, whatever funcky "standards" about file locations can MS claim to have designed last night.
I' d recommend anyone to wait at least 2 years after release of an MS OS to switch to it (when SP2 is ready ). Personnaly I've even used W98 up to 2005...


(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 38
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 12:02:59 PM   
MrMox

 

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Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
As for the click option, it doesn't show up in Outlook which is the real issue here. Sending and Recieving my PBEM turn files. I am running the latest Outlook version which doesn't allow for access to the Virtual Store in any way (Probably for security reasons).


Create a shortcut to the Virtual Store in your home directory, and use the shortcut from within Outlook to access the Virtual Store - would that work, or does Outlook block access to AppData altogether?


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Post #: 39
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 12:08:06 PM   
MrMox

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
BTW just to keep up the Vista nitpicks.. In your Vista testing how did you possibly miss the Vista UAC popup right when you start the game (Vista User Access Control) warning that an unidentified program wants access?

Yeah, it's a bother. I ended up with this solution.

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Post #: 40
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 12:22:33 PM   
MrMox

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
I suspect that Matrix and Vic would better leave that issue unattended and wait for MS to remove such bugs from Vista - because invisible files in the navigator are just that, whatever funcky "standards" about file locations can MS claim to have designed last night.


Virtual Store is a pragmatic solution to a real problem with not-so-well-behaved applications wanting to write below Program Files - at least you would agree that applications shouldn't do that in the first case?

Besides, it's not like it's hard to do it right (look at table 1 and the following code snippet).


< Message edited by MrMox -- 11/24/2007 1:31:19 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 3:39:21 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMox

quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
I suspect that Matrix and Vic would better leave that issue unattended and wait for MS to remove such bugs from Vista - because invisible files in the navigator are just that, whatever funcky "standards" about file locations can MS claim to have designed last night.


Virtual Store is a pragmatic solution to a real problem with not-so-well-behaved applications wanting to write below Program Files - at least you would agree that applications shouldn't do that in the first case?

Besides, it's not like it's hard to do it right (look at table 1 and the following code snippet).



No, since ages most apps install in Program Files and write below. That MS decide at some point that it's "not good" is a thing, but that the whole world should abide is another I'm refusing...
I'm wanting to put the files where I like them to go ! I dislike all that "Documents", "Appdata" stuff, I prefer to have my saved games and data near the corresponding app.
And I don't install any game in that "Program Files" with everything dumped there, I install games on a specific D: drive with subcategories like "wargames", "strategy", "RPG"... much more convenient..
So no to MS dictatorship, I want an OS, not a sarge imposing me what to do !

(in reply to MrMox)
Post #: 42
RE: Invisible Saved Game Files?? - 11/24/2007 8:38:32 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMox

quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
I suspect that Matrix and Vic would better leave that issue unattended and wait for MS to remove such bugs from Vista - because invisible files in the navigator are just that, whatever funcky "standards" about file locations can MS claim to have designed last night.


Virtual Store is a pragmatic solution to a real problem with not-so-well-behaved applications wanting to write below Program Files - at least you would agree that applications shouldn't do that in the first case?

Besides, it's not like it's hard to do it right (look at table 1 and the following code snippet).



No, since ages most apps install in Program Files and write below. That MS decide at some point that it's "not good" is a thing, but that the whole world should abide is another I'm refusing...
I'm wanting to put the files where I like them to go ! I dislike all that "Documents", "Appdata" stuff, I prefer to have my saved games and data near the corresponding app.
And I don't install any game in that "Program Files" with everything dumped there, I install games on a specific D: drive with subcategories like "wargames", "strategy", "RPG"... much more convenient..
So no to MS dictatorship, I want an OS, not a sarge imposing me what to do !



So you guys are smarter than the hundreds if not thousands on the MS dev team?

Your being a bit narrowminded.

Just one, repeat one, good example why MS made the change has nothing to even do with security etc.

In fact I've had it happen to me and thats what their millions of dollars in research has said.. which is:

Installing an application in Program Files is good (Thats why its called Program Files), putting your data in it is bad. When people backup their "data" its a pain to track down stuff in each individual dir. Over the years computers have grown from a small average number of apps and games to hundreds even on an average PC due to the growth of computers.

My wife had all her "electronic sewing patterns" or whatever it was in one such directory and I missed it years ago when I rebuilt her machine. During that time between tapes and large USB Drives it was difficult to have a way to fully backup a system. Especially since its not one of the main PCs I use. Even now its not cheap.

So as smart as you all are, Microsoft just might have hired even smarter people. Ones that do this for a living instead of only second guessing on forums. Don't let me stop you from hating Corporate America though.

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