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RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri

 
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RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 4:42:30 AM   
desert


Posts: 827
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Any consoles?

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 31
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 4:43:56 AM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
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Status: offline 		Nope

(in reply to desert)
Post #: 32
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 4:56:34 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fungwu
quote:

"note that there's a fault in ver 7 on T40 and 41 - Buzz set Axis shock to 75 for those turns instead of 100 (I think), so we're doign a voluntary cease fire in our game. "


Yeah, I looked it up in the event editor, Germans get nasty shock from turn  32 till 42. Soviet shock goes to 115 I think on 39, so I will have to beg Karri not to crush me with his +40 shock.


German shock is supposed to go down to represent the mud (ie to reinforce the effects of teh mud!) - I don't think hte soviet shock is supposed to go up tho, and I think the German shock is supposed to go back to 100 on T40

(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 33
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 4:59:11 AM   
desert


Posts: 827
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Lol, what about minesweeper?

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 34
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 4:59:46 AM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		"German shock is supposed to go down to represent the mud (ie to reinforce the effects of teh mud!) - I don't think hte soviet shock is supposed to go up tho, and I think the German shock is supposed to go back to 100 on T40"

Yeah, I figured when I saw it that it was a mistake, Karri already agreed to have a ceasefire when his shock comes back.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 35
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 6:32:58 AM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Sorry I missed the error of the German shock in the events. On turn 40 I set the Soviet shock to increase after mud to 98 and the mistake had them also going up to 115. It looks like that the later event of 98 took effect, I had two 'shock 1', soviet, events set to happen on the same turn. So it appears that the later one of 98 took effect, SMK will have to verify that. It is now corrected.

It's nice to see how the game can be played. SMK and I are playing the same scenario, of course I didn't, as the German mass like Fungwu did and do have lost lots more hvy rifle squads then he has.

I would like to know if the German supply decrease and shorting of supply length has effected your play at all Fungwu. This is before the shock goes down. I tried to reduce the German supply so to effect the German advance.

I am wondering if putting the Soviet shock back to what the original version had would be better. IE soviet shock at 100 starting on turn 3, but leaving it that way thru 1942 vice increasing as the original does. SMK would have to chime in since he is playing another game against another oppenant and might have a recommendation.

+++ It would really be nice to be able to edit the game on the fly, especially the larger scenarios (beating that drum again)+++

(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 36
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 10:18:15 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		We're on the mud turns and Axis can't really make any attacks. Soviets however can, I suppose this should be changed, decrease the soviet shock to same level as Axis(weren't they something like 75 to 85 now?).

Also I think the biggest change in the mod is rail capacity. It really makes it much harder for Soviets to survive. In the original version the capacity goes to 12 000 on turn 6(althought briefing says 11 000 on turn 6 and 12 000 on turn 12). Now the Soviets have 6000 on turn 6, which in total means 36 000 'loss' of transport capacity for turns 6-11. The average Soviet rifle divisions weights something like 650, so that makes about 55 divisions less on the frontlines.  Quite an amount. I suggest instead of 6000 increase it to 8000. Equal to Axis.

(in reply to Zort)
Post #: 37
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/26/2007 10:53:46 PM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Im not a Fite expert, so I can't say whether this is a change with the mod or just normal FITE, but the soviets have near air supierority around turn 20-25

Axis gets a measley 18 Me109s a turn while soviets get a huge number of fighters of all classes. I don't know if I screwed up and didn't destroy enough of Karri's planes, but soviet airforce seems too strong.

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 38
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 12:55:16 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		They might not get amany, and the Air Superiority figures might be heavily pro-soviet, but hte Germans still shoot down 2-3 times their losses.

In reality the Sov's always outnumbered the LW from about Dec 41 onwards, but were not as well organised.  it was only towards the end of 1942 that they started actually making good use of their numbers with better tactics and direction, and by mid 1943 the LW was all but swept from the russian skies - it could manage to hold AS over limited sectors for lmiited times, and still inflicted heavy casualties....but it was a losing battle without much actual impact on the war.

(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 39
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 12:58:27 AM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe germans could get better air shock for the periods they historically held air superiority.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 40
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 1:11:22 AM   
desert


Posts: 827
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		A problem is the lack of area-specific shock.

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 41
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 2:42:35 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		the Germans do get better airshock for eth whole war IIRC..or at least equivalent - let's se....yes found it - according to the orignal briefing -

quote:


They have a 140 Air shock the first 10 turns, and then 120 until turn 43. In 1942 they have a 110 air shock, and the rest of the war they have 100

 
For the russians:
 
quote:

The Russians Also have air shock of 5, going to 75 in turn 3, and 100 in turn 10.

 
So the Germans get 2 moves of absolute air superiority in which they need to utterly destroy the VVS.....if they fail to do this they will be in trouble very quickly (I've seen it happen in one game I am playing...).  If they do this the VVS will recover by 1942, but with low experience will still be easy targets in the air although no longer on the ground.
 

(in reply to desert)
Post #: 42
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 6:58:25 AM   
cesteman


Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline 		where can I find this mod? Thanks.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 43
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 7:24:40 AM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		The problem is most player only concentrate on destroying the Soviet airplanes on turn 1. I do it on turn 1, 2 and 3...and everytime I can lure them into some sort of trap.
Airfield attacks on turn 2 basicly double the Soviet casualties.

(in reply to cesteman)
Post #: 44
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 7:39:32 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Yes the Sov's get air shock of 5 for both T1 and T2 - which means that 95% of their a/c are frozen on the ground.....the LW should be able to kill 4-5000 of them over the 2 turns...and many units will stay frozen on subsequent turns due casualties and 75% shock, so they should be hammered all the way up to T10 when the shock values all change.

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 45
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 7:17:25 PM   
cesteman


Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline 		hmmm... Seems I'm being ignored.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 46
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/27/2007 8:40:34 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		PM zort.

(in reply to cesteman)
Post #: 47
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 2:21:25 AM   
cesteman


Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline 		thx

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 48
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 5:32:48 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

In the original version the capacity goes to 12 000 on turn 6(althought briefing says 11 000 on turn 6 and 12 000 on turn 12). Now the Soviets have 6000 on turn 6, which in total means 36 000 'loss' of transport capacity for turns 6-11. The average Soviet rifle divisions weights something like 650, so that makes about 55 divisions less on the frontlines.  Quite an amount. I suggest instead of 6000 increase it to 8000. Equal to Axis.



There's also a 9,000 on turn 9.

It's been awhile since this was done, but if I remember correctly, it was to try to prevent the Soviet from doing a mass withdrawal to the east (I think).

I'd rather not go thru the entire force to figure out how many new Soviet divisions arrive from turns 6 thru 12. Rather, a Soviet player could tell if, on turn 11, there are 50+ divisions from Gorky to the east waiting to be railed to the front lines? I guess that would depend mostly on how many Soviet divisions were destroyed from turns 2 thru 7 (based on a 4 turn reconstitution time).

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 49
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 5:44:04 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

In the original version the capacity goes to 12 000 on turn 6(althought briefing says 11 000 on turn 6 and 12 000 on turn 12). Now the Soviets have 6000 on turn 6, which in total means 36 000 'loss' of transport capacity for turns 6-11. The average Soviet rifle divisions weights something like 650, so that makes about 55 divisions less on the frontlines. Quite an amount. I suggest instead of 6000 increase it to 8000. Equal to Axis.



There's also a 9,000 on turn 9.

It's been awhile since this was done, but if I remember correctly, it was to try to prevent the Soviet from doing a mass withdrawal to the east (I think).

I'd rather not go thru the entire force to figure out how many new Soviet divisions arrive from turns 6 thru 12. Rather, a Soviet player could tell if, on turn 11, there are 50+ divisions from Gorky to the east waiting to be railed to the front lines? I guess that would depend mostly on how many Soviet divisions were destroyed from turns 2 thru 7 (based on a 4 turn reconstitution time).



Yes, there are. Not divisions necessarily, but artillery, enginners, etc. units certainly.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 50
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 5:47:02 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Hmm .... 8,000 on turn 6, 10,000 on turn 9, and 12,000 on turn 12 ??

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 51
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 5:57:37 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		8000 on turn 6 and 12 000 on turn 12 I think is good enough...because in normal fite 12 000 on turn 6 allows the Soviet player to build a line that can't be broken...

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 52
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 6:25:42 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Sounds good! Thanks for the 'Soviet' view. Hey, for some extra fun, next time you are flipping thru the events, check #475. I can't imagine why that's there!

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 53
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 7:18:40 PM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Event 475. Turn 320 Sea transport to 6000

Sea transport increases as allies prepare to invade.

Soviet D Day?

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 54
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 7:29:29 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		Turns 33-42:
The soviet strenght keeps growing...ceasefire over and next turn I can unleash my attack. My air superiority climbed up to 100, which practically means that air supremacy will be mine at the latest by '42.

Lot's of troops have been positioned and there should now be reserves everywhere to make sure any Axis attack can be met with equal terms, while still keeping my own attacks going. Quite an amount of troops waiting for rail transport aswell.

At this point my casualties are about as following:



115 000 rifle/mounted/smg/etc squads, 74 500 of these are normal rifle squads.
50 000 MG's and AT rifles
12 000 AT guns
17 000 different artillery pieces(the only equipment I seriously lack at the moment)
47 000 mortars
9000 AA guns
4600 armored cars
15 000 tanks
few ships
10 000 aircraft
Might be a few thousands in direction or antoehr, these are 'about' figures afterall.

My current strenght is lightly less than what I have lost.







(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 55
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 7:32:23 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fungwu

Event 475. Turn 320 Sea transport to 6000

Sea transport increases as allies prepare to invade.

Soviet D Day?




Historically speaking it was Soviet Union that conducted the landings in Normandy. The glorious Red Army also fought and won agaisnt Rommel in North Africa.

It's just that Hollywood propaganda that makes you think otherwise.

(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 56
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 7:35:01 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		I knew there was a logical explanation!

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 57
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 8:49:54 PM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		These are my losses as of the beginning of turn 43.

20,756 heavy rifle squads 3.5 vs 1 to Karri's rifle squads
19,487 all other squads, civilian groups, etc
4775 foreign squads


45,018 total 2.5 vs 1 to Karri's total.

2246 aircraft 4.5 vs 1 to Karri

1527 tracked armored fighting vehicles of all descriptions 10 vs 1 to Karri

8358 transports

236 armored cars 19.5 vs 1 to Karri

678 light scout vehicles

914 total recon vehicles 5 vs 1 to Karri (using his armored car figure for both)

1668 aa guns 5.4 vs 1 to Karri

3858 artillery guns (note: 2011 of these are 75mm guns) 4.4 vs 1 to Karri

2427 AT guns 4.9 vs 1 to Karri


1836 mortars 25.6! vs 1 to Karri

13156 Mgs and At rifles 3.8 vs 1 to Karri.


Overall loss penalty is 283 vs 54
or 5.24 vs 1

All my figures are exact. Some loss ratios are rounded.
If Karri posts more precise figures for losses and strength I will post my exact strength.

Just a taste: Heavy rifle squads are 40942 assigned 7907 on hand.

















115 000 rifle/mounted/smg/etc squads, 74 500 of these are normal rifle squads.
50 000 MG's and AT rifles
12 000 AT guns
17 000 different artillery pieces(the only equipment I seriously lack at the moment)
47 000 mortars
9000 AA guns
4600 armored cars
15 000 tanks
few ships
10 000 aircraft
Might be a few thousands in direction or antoehr, these are 'about' figures afterall.

My current strenght is lightly less than what I have lost.






< Message edited by Fungwu -- 11/28/2007 8:51:32 PM >

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 58
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 10:26:25 PM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		What's teh date of T320?  I can do some research to figure out what it's tryuing to be :)

Playing Zort & 1 other using this mod as the Soviets there is never enough rail transport until about T40 when reinforcements drop away for a turn or 2, but I rarely have had to wait more than 2 turns to get rifle divisions to the front. 

Rebuilds are invariably small - so luse less capacity & I rail them immediately.  I only ever use rail for HQ, artillery, rifle and tank units - never for ancilliary units (engineer, recce, cavalry) unless there's a specific need (eg to construct the arctic or Caspian railways) or somehow I have spare capacity.

Any unit not railed marches until it does get railed or it gets to the front, which ever comes first!! :)

However there are a few strange things - eg I've disbanded some brigades and even a coupe of divisions that arrived at Astrakhan that were assigned to armies in the north - I figured I needed the replacement rifle squads for existing units more, and they'd get rebuilt at Gorki when they do get rebuilt so saving some rail capacity!

Karri how the f**k did you get AS of 100 by T40-ish??

I'm on T42 vs Zort, & the Leningrad VVS has jsut launched thousands of aircraft agaisnt the LW in that area, often inflicting 50% casualties for the loss of only 5 or 6%......of course 50% of a 12 strong Jagdgeschwader is only 6 whereas 5% of a 600 strong strike is 30......  My AS is 24 vs his of 18.

(in reply to Fungwu)
Post #: 59
RE: FITE Fungwu vs Karri - 11/28/2007 10:35:36 PM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		"Soviets there is never enough rail transport until about T40"

That is funny. Karri has had to make due with rail capacity 6000 since turn 16.

I don't know how karri got so many planes, for a couple of turn around 14 or so, he put everything he had into the sky. Each turn I would shoot down as much as I could, figuring eventually his units would get weak and go away. Instead they got stronger and stronger each turn, until I ran out of fighters. He did get some american fighers due to Turkish intervention, but other than that I don't know. His production of fighters must be 10-1 or something.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 60
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