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RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 1:10:16 AM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

Kereguelen

Any chance we can have a brief description of some of the "love" the Soviets have gotten?


Yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey
Right now it looks like they have supply issues later in the war if an extended campaign begins there.


Still in the works

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey
Any chance the Allied player can have freedom to move stuff around even when Soviets are not active?


No

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey
Currently you have to house rule this since they are so disorganized. Any buildup by the IJA would have triggered redeployments to counter it IRL, but you cannot do this in game right now without house rules.


The Soviets have received an OOB that should bear more resamblance to their historical OOB and that should help alot in this regard. That is, they're not disorganized anymore. And keep in mind that troop movement works out quite different from WITP in the AE. Attacking the SU will be a real challenge even without the Soviets being able to redeploy before a Japanese attack.


(in reply to Knavey)
Post #: 181
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 2:40:12 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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Canada is now a lot stonger.

Between the militia Bdes and the regulers the problem is restricting them we are testing my chosen method but broadly because all of these units are not overseas volounteers apart from the two HK bns there are a LOT of restictions on how they can be used - most of the infantry has the static Canadian Militia Rifle Section which upgrades to a Canadian Regular Section which can deploy overseas if PP's are paid however Canadian forces are probably the single most restricted allied force in terms of deployments.

Because I am such a nice guy and everyone needs to have something to kick me for I will post the full ORBAT for Canada

So feel free to kick it - I may ignore you all while you do but thats fair enough !!!

Hong Kong
Royal Rifles of Canada Bn
Winnipeg Grenadiers Bn

At Start
Western Air Command - Vancouver
Canada Command

13th Canadian Bde broken down into
2nd Can Scottish Bn
Brockville Fusiliers Bn
Edmonton Fusiliers Bn

14th Canadian Bde (not broken down)

Rocky Mountain Rangers Bn

RCAF Base Forces at Canada, Whitehorse and Fort St John
RCMP Outposts Nelson, Kamloops, Bella Bella, Coal Harbour.
RCN Base Forces/Fortresses Victoria/Vancouver, Prince Rupert
Empire Training Base Forces Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Regina (all static)

Reinforcements
18th, 19th and 20th Bdes
38th, 39th, 40th and 41st Militia Bdes
27th and 28th AA Regts (I didnt include the other two as they are included in forts and base forces and to many mobile AA Regts invites stripping Canada)

As Part of Tiger Force
6th RCAF Group
6th Canadian Div
1st Construction Bn (engineers supporting AF construction for Tiger Force)
551st Wing
555th Wing
(Tiger Force gets 5 Aviation Wings each of 75 Av Support I made 2 of them Canadian)

Just to whet the appetite for the arguments to come !!!!

Andy

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 182
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 3:52:17 AM   
hueglin


Posts: 297
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Kingston, ON, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Canada is now a lot stonger.

Between the militia Bdes and the regulers the problem is restricting them we are testing my chosen method but broadly because all of these units are not overseas volounteers apart from the two HK bns there are a LOT of restictions on how they can be used - most of the infantry has the static Canadian Militia Rifle Section which upgrades to a Canadian Regular Section which can deploy overseas if PP's are paid however Canadian forces are probably the single most restricted allied force in terms of deployments.

Because I am such a nice guy and everyone needs to have something to kick me for I will post the full ORBAT for Canada

So feel free to kick it - I may ignore you all while you do but thats fair enough !!!

Hong Kong
Royal Rifles of Canada Bn
Winnipeg Grenadiers Bn

At Start
Western Air Command - Vancouver
Canada Command

13th Canadian Bde broken down into
2nd Can Scottish Bn
Brockville Fusiliers Bn
Edmonton Fusiliers Bn

14th Canadian Bde (not broken down)

Rocky Mountain Rangers Bn

RCAF Base Forces at Canada, Whitehorse and Fort St John
RCMP Outposts Nelson, Kamloops, Bella Bella, Coal Harbour.
RCN Base Forces/Fortresses Victoria/Vancouver, Prince Rupert
Empire Training Base Forces Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Regina (all static)

Reinforcements
18th, 19th and 20th Bdes
38th, 39th, 40th and 41st Militia Bdes
27th and 28th AA Regts (I didnt include the other two as they are included in forts and base forces and to many mobile AA Regts invites stripping Canada)

As Part of Tiger Force
6th RCAF Group
6th Canadian Div
1st Construction Bn (engineers supporting AF construction for Tiger Force)
551st Wing
555th Wing
(Tiger Force gets 5 Aviation Wings each of 75 Av Support I made 2 of them Canadian)

Just to whet the appetite for the arguments to come !!!!

Andy



Hi Andy,

I have Volume One of the Official Canadian History - "Six Years of War" - I have compared the OOB listed in the appendix with yours. The info in the text is current as of Apr 1943. I can scan it in and post it if you like. There are some changes and additions you could make. I notice you haven't listed the Vancouver Defenses, the Prince Rupert Defenses or the Victoria and Esquimalt Fortress. This text has a breakdown of units assigned to those places, as well as the field formations : 19 Bde, 6th and 8th Divisions.

Dave

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 183
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 4:19:44 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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Always happy to recieve new info but primary input has more or less ended now unless its a showstopper which I doubt Canada will be.

The RCN bases forces/fortresses at Victoria, Vancouver and Prince Rupert include the garrisons of those cities and I chose not to create more Canadian Divs so the regular Bdes are in fact Bde Groups.

(Creating Divs out of those forces when they are primarily defensive in nature I felt was a step to far)

Broadly the 5 Regular Bde Groups cover the 2 Divs in question (and I know 15th Bde floated around between east coast and west coast)

(in reply to hueglin)
Post #: 184
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 6:49:59 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline

I see that I have been "outed" as a AE contributor on the main board. I am primarily responsible for the US LCU OOB.

Andy Mac (my fearless leader) has ably answered all the land questions about allied organization. If you've got any queries specifically about US forces, I'll gladly add my two cents.

I think you'll be very impressed with the capabilities of the editor, and the homework that has gone into all of the national OOBs. For examply, using the editor, one US Army regiment in Alaska is subdivided into battalions, and one of the battalions subdivided into companies -- garrisons at Nome, Yakutat, and Annette Is. If the player reunites these scattered forces they will recombine into the full regiment.

LCUs can have "personalized" TO&Es, which can upgrade multiple times. For example, each Marine Corps Defense Bn starts with a different 'fit" of CD guns . . . and in 1944 most of the Defense Bns convert to AAA Bns.

A pet peeve of mine in stock was that over a third of the highest-ranking land/air leaders were completely fictitious. In WITP-AE you'll find only historic US 2,3, and 4-star generals. Other countries' leaders have also been overhauled.









_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 185
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 7:20:16 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
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From: Eastern US
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I'll take up AndyMac's challenge, and add one of my own:

1. The British proposed LTG Sir Charles Keightley to command the "Commonwealth" (X) Corps for the invasion of Japan. The Australians objected and issue became moot when Japan surrendered.

2. In the event that Japan tries a landing on the US West Coast there is a US reinforcement OOB that may/may not be coded in time for initial release. The key US reinforcements would be an Armored Corps in South-Central California (three armored divisions trained here in 1942-43), and an Infantry Corps in Oregon (four infantry divisions trained there from 1942-44).

Should the Japanese (foolishly) invade, these forces (among many others) appear. The Armored force will arrive as the II Armored Corps, commanded by George Patton. But what about the infantry? Assuming that any Japanese invasion would likely come before November, 1942, when the US invaded North Africa, I tentatively selected MG Fredenhall, who led the US II Corps to North Africa, and inglorious defeat at Kasserine Pass.

Who would be a more appropriate choice to command this force in mid-to-late 1942?





_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 186
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 9:11:54 AM   
Jim D Burns


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From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
Hi Andy,

There’s a bug in CHS that may find its way into AE if it’s not tracked down. So far neither the Southeast Asia Command HQ nor the Southwest Pacific Command HQ will draw supplies to their bases as they are supposed to.

Also replacements are not being drawn properly. Instead of air frames showing up at air units stacked with the Southwest Pacific Command HQ at Townsville, fragment groups are appearing with the Australia Command HQ at Alice Springs.

I think there must be an internal flag somewhere in the code for command HQ units that was not selected for the HQ’s, or got scrambled somehow when new command HQ’s were created. Perhaps the India Command and Australia command slots were the original SEA and SWP HQ’s and those two HQ’s were offset and they now have no internal flag for command HQ status.

I’d be sure to run tests for all the new command HQ’s you’re creating for AE and all the old HQ’s they may have offset, to be sure they are all working properly.

Jim


_____________________________


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Post #: 187
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 12:44:43 PM   
Kereguelen


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Joined: 5/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

A pet peeve of mine in stock was that over a third of the highest-ranking land/air leaders were completely fictitious. In WITP-AE you'll find only historic US 2,3, and 4-star generals. Other countries' leaders have also been overhauled.



Yup, did the same for Japan and SU (+ Thailand if anybody will care to notice): No fictious generals anymore! Historical (and less generic) generals only!

And I'm quite certain that Andy did the CW Air Leaders (but don't ask any questions if you notice the existence of Air Chief Marshal Sir Andrew McPhie in the database).

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 188
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 1:50:35 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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*coughs* ACM and a Field Marshall....!!!

No but seriously I did the same for the CW where I could actually stock wasnt bad for CW Div and above leaders it was just the stats were to generic which I have adjusted

I added about 15 CW Air Leaders for HQ's and a few more TF Leaders in the Commodore/Rear Admiral Ranks

There is a new editor feature called best leader which selects a group of appropriate leaders for the point in time th eunits arrive.

Andy

(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 189
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 5:50:26 PM   
HMS Resolution


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Sounds pretty good so far, especially the bit about more Commonwealth officer-types! I'd prefer O'Connor over Freyberg for X Corps, but Sir Charles Keightly would be preferred most of all, since he seems the most historical choice.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 190
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 6:11:28 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Yeah but Keightly would have been accepted he was a place holder and was objected to by the Australians (albeit as former commander of 6th Armoured Div/78th Inf Div and 5th Corps and later commander of BAOR he wasnt a bad soldier)

(in reply to HMS Resolution)
Post #: 191
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 6:21:55 PM   
ny59giants


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I agree with Jim on SW Pacific HQ. I'm near the end of 9/42 with CHS 158c and the HQ was moved to Alice Springs as northern Australia was invaded. Finally, last turn the huge supply dump at Whyalla was drawn from to put all my mid-Australia bases to over twice required amounts except Alice Springs, it's still below twice needed (less than 5k).

_____________________________


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Post #: 192
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 6:25:13 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Strange I dont have this issue in stock.

I will have a look in testing AE

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Post #: 193
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 7:12:58 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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Thie situation on the replacements is that the bases are all Australia command, and so replacements for the units are being drawn by the HQ to which the bases are assigned, not the the HQ to which the units are assigned. WAD.

I hadn't noticed the lack of supply drawing ability by SWPac HQ, but then I still have it in one of the major Aussie ports to which I've been sending supply.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 194
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 8:42:30 PM   
Jim D Burns


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From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Thie situation on the replacements is that the bases are all Australia command, and so replacements for the units are being drawn by the HQ to which the bases are assigned, not the the HQ to which the units are assigned. WAD.

I hadn't noticed the lack of supply drawing ability by SWPac HQ, but then I still have it in one of the major Aussie ports to which I've been sending supply.


Command HQ’s are supposed to draw supplies to their own base and should provide replacement draw abilities to units under their command if within x range if that unit has x supply on hand (doesn’t matter who controls the base itself). I don’t have the manual handy to look up specifics, but SWPac and SEAsia HQ’s are not working as command HQ’s should.

My opponent mentioned his Northern China command HQ (forget its exact name) is also not drawing supplies as it should.

If supply draw and replacement draw are screwy, then combat modifiers are also probably not working as designed either.

I should note Andy this is for CHS scenario 158, not stock. CHS added a bunch of new command HQ’s and I think there is a flag in the code somewhere that identifies these HQ’s as special that didn’t get flagged. More than likely the HQ’s in question were offset in the database list by the new command HQ’s (which are working fine by the way) and they were not properly flagged, even though it says command HQ in the unit detail screen. Something got missed somewhere.

Jim

Edit: OK I looked it up and the fragments are appearing in Alice Springs due to who controls the base that the air squadron is located at. The part I mentioned about the transfer range should apply first, but only if the controlling HQ has 20k+ of supplies available at its base which it does not.

But that doesn’t explain why 22,000+ supplies sitting at the totally empty base of Cairns for a week didn’t get drawn to SWPac at Charter Towers and later Townsville when those two bases had only about 10K of supply each. Nor why after a week of air combat now, no new supplies are being drawn to SWPac at Townsville from the south even though there are plenty of supplies at Brisbane and Sydney.



< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 12/11/2007 9:08:18 PM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 195
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/11/2007 11:36:46 PM   
hueglin


Posts: 297
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From: Kingston, ON, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


I see that I have been "outed" as a AE contributor on the main board. I am primarily responsible for the US LCU OOB.

Andy Mac (my fearless leader) has ably answered all the land questions about allied organization. If you've got any queries specifically about US forces, I'll gladly add my two cents.

I think you'll be very impressed with the capabilities of the editor, and the homework that has gone into all of the national OOBs. For examply, using the editor, one US Army regiment in Alaska is subdivided into battalions, and one of the battalions subdivided into companies -- garrisons at Nome, Yakutat, and Annette Is. If the player reunites these scattered forces they will recombine into the full regiment.

LCUs can have "personalized" TO&Es, which can upgrade multiple times. For example, each Marine Corps Defense Bn starts with a different 'fit" of CD guns . . . and in 1944 most of the Defense Bns convert to AAA Bns.

A pet peeve of mine in stock was that over a third of the highest-ranking land/air leaders were completely fictitious. In WITP-AE you'll find only historic US 2,3, and 4-star generals. Other countries' leaders have also been overhauled.




Do you have access to Stanton's excellent text : WWII Order of Battle (for the U.S. Army)?

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 196
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 12:53:15 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hueglin


Do you have access to Stanton's excellent text : WWII Order of Battle (for the U.S. Army)?



Oh, yes. I would not attempt and could not complete this project without it.




_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to hueglin)
Post #: 197
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 2:12:38 AM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


quote:

ORIGINAL: hueglin


Do you have access to Stanton's excellent text : WWII Order of Battle (for the U.S. Army)?



Oh, yes. I would not attempt and could not complete this project without it.





Actually I have two, the original and the revised. Not too much additional in the revised but the original is showing lots of wear!



(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 198
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 7:43:53 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Always happy to recieve new info but primary input has more or less ended now unless its a showstopper which I doubt Canada will be.

The RCN bases forces/fortresses at Victoria, Vancouver and Prince Rupert include the garrisons of those cities and I chose not to create more Canadian Divs so the regular Bdes are in fact Bde Groups.

(Creating Divs out of those forces when they are primarily defensive in nature I felt was a step to far)

Broadly the 5 Regular Bde Groups cover the 2 Divs in question (and I know 15th Bde floated around between east coast and west coast)


For specifics on CD and AA, 'The Gunners of Canada Vol 2' is a good suplement to the official history. I think your choices are sound, Canada was most definitly not focused on the Pacific until late in the war. Is it simply a mater of increasing the PP needed to release a unit? I think that historicaly the only unit released for operations was 13 Bde, the rest were all tied to defence of Canada. Anyway this is alot better treatment of the OOB than is Stock. Do you know if the Navy team addrested the political issues with Cdn ships (HMCS Uganda comes to mind)? Thanks

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 199
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 7:48:03 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

Prince Rupert, I would not say it is akin to an inland port, ....

OK, not a Navy guy so over to you - looked small enough to me to be engaged from both sides by HMG fire - not a place I would want to bring a ship if I could avoid it.

Does AE handle ASW and A-MTB booms? I don't think the core game did.

Thanks

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 200
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 8:00:41 PM   
el cid again

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Always happy to recieve new info but primary input has more or less ended now unless its a showstopper which I doubt Canada will be.

The RCN bases forces/fortresses at Victoria, Vancouver and Prince Rupert include the garrisons of those cities and I chose not to create more Canadian Divs so the regular Bdes are in fact Bde Groups.

(Creating Divs out of those forces when they are primarily defensive in nature I felt was a step to far)

Broadly the 5 Regular Bde Groups cover the 2 Divs in question (and I know 15th Bde floated around between east coast and west coast)


For specifics on CD and AA, 'The Gunners of Canada Vol 2' is a good suplement to the official history. I think your choices are sound, Canada was most definitly not focused on the Pacific until late in the war. Is it simply a mater of increasing the PP needed to release a unit? I think that historicaly the only unit released for operations was 13 Bde, the rest were all tied to defence of Canada. Anyway this is alot better treatment of the OOB than is Stock. Do you know if the Navy team addrested the political issues with Cdn ships (HMCS Uganda comes to mind)? Thanks


When the commander of Alaskan Command, Brig Gen Simon Bolivar Buckner, called for reinforcements, and he did so often, the US sometimes sent some. Canada ALWAYS sent some, and if the US also did, Canada sent MORE. This was often air units - and it was in Alaska that a peculiar kind of Canadian air units needed (and got) permission to fight - seems they normally were not considered combat units (never mind having combat aircraft). Anyway - Canada certainly participated in "the thousand mile war" - and today - a Canadian general is either commander or deputy commander, Alaskan Command, depending on the date.

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 201
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 8:10:02 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Prince Rupert is a Port and had a sizable CD Battery (cannot recall exact details but I have them in the scenario)

Interestingly the most defended base is Victoria with 8" US CD Guns and 9.2" British Guns plus a load of 6" and 12 Pounder CD Guns.

I tried a novel approach to Canada which may not work and we will need to test it.

Broadly the main Canadian Squad type is called the Canadian Militia Section and it is STATIC.

It upgrades to a Can Rifle Section - 41 which is a normal mobile infantry section.

Now the replacement rate for Canadian 1941 Sections is low roughly enough to release a single Bde Group per year to be mobile.

So not only do you need to pay PP's to release them but you also need to wait for sufficient replacements of the mobile squads.

Now if the player chooses to rescue and rebuild either of the Canadian Bns in HK (which they can as I have not given them disband orders) then the it will take a long time to release a Canadian Bde for Aleutians.

Forcing ahistoric decisions to have consequences is a major part of the decsion for me.

Just to clarify any worries people may have about static units being to vulnerable were the Japanese to attack Canada. I have set it up such that a Canadian Reinforcement Draft is part of the reinforcements in the event of a West Coast or Canadian Invasion (not Alaska/Aleutians or north)

If the Japanese cross the 'magic' line with more than 40 AV then a unit with 400 Canandian 1941 'mobile' squads appears in the Canada Box - this unit has not support or other weapons its sole purpose is to be disbanded to the pool thus instantly making most of the Canadian Ground Units mobile as the Militia upgrade - once again ahistorical actions have consequences.

Just so you know in the core game the CW recieves similar 'timed' device replacements on 4 other occasions.

1. Early in 42 a unit arrives which automatically disbands the day after it arrives giving a one off injection of Dutch, Dutch Militia, Burmese, ISF, Indian and British Sections plus a few other devices - these represent the initial surge nature of trying to make units combat effective and compensate for the really low level of allied early war device replacements. i.e. the t5ransfer of obsolete equipment from East Africa, West Africa, Middle East and Iraq/Persia

2. Early in 43 Indian Army Grants and other obsolete AFV's are transferred to India - prior to that you will find bdes and regts using Improvised AFV's (A truck with an MG) to train in or Vickers VIB's with perhaps a sqn or 2 having Valentines or if they are very lucky General Lee's- India is very very short of real tanks just because units have a full TOE of Improvised AFV's allied players would be wise not to use them except in extremis as they will take heavy heavy casualties..

3. Early in 44 a final armoured transfer occurs this time more Grants and a few Shermans to start the conversion process.

4. The last is probably the most interesting - you will find British Sections a real struggle and British forces will need to be cannibalised - trying to keep 18th British Div up to strength in combat if not lost in Singapore will be very difficult if it commits to combat as well as 2nd British, 70th British and the various Indian Divs with British Sections.

The crisis resulted in mid 44 to the disbandment of several British AA Regts and a couple of base forces the men thus released form a 4th and final 'one off' injection where the British recieve an injection of replacement infantry sections.

Andy

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 202
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 8:29:49 PM   
witpqs


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Andy this is great. The only problem I see is the low rate at which LCU's draw replacements (something like one squad per week). I know another poster mentioned that and you are looking into it (or someone is). I've seen it consistently in CHS and RHS, but it's been quite a while since I played stock. I just wanted to support what the other poster said so you know it is not just a problem one person has run into.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 203
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 8:49:36 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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It should be much improved with the new rest/training mode where the speed of squad draw down from the pool is increased if in that mode (I think it still maxes at 1 per day per device line though)

Andy

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 204
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 8:51:59 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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We will test it lots of units start very understrength now so if wedont see them rebuilding quickly enough (while in range of a Command HQ, with plenty of supplies and in a place with lots of bases which are the other criteria) then we will adjust - but I need to test it a little first.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 205
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 8:54:00 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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One thing to note for all squad type devices we are now numbering them so you will see Indian 41/ 42 / 43 and 44 squads with diffrerent firepower, loadcosts etc etc this will also make it easier to track if the reason you are not drawing reinforcements is because the pool for that particular variant of the squad is empty.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 206
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 10:01:21 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
Hi Andy,

Have you taken the 40 squads out of the baseforce units so they don't suck up all the replacements? Your whole minimalist approach goes out the window if all the squads get sucked into baseforce units that are merely trying to keep air support squads at close to maximum.

A better solution would be to give the player the ability to shut off individual lines in the TO&E. So if I want no squads to go to a baseforce unit, I simply toggle that line off, the rest of the equipment will still be drawn.

Also how is Japan being hamstrung? With such limited replacements, a non-historical strategy by Japan will be devastating to the allies since they are now hamstrung with historical limits for almost the entire game. Can Japan still build unlimited equipment items of all types?

Don’t get me wrong, I want and enjoy historical accuracy and appreciate all your efforts. But it has to be a two sided coin or Japan can simply exploit the weakness.

In the current system, Japan can build 10,000 tanks if he needs them. Granted he probably won’t need them and won’t build 10,000 tanks, but he can if he needs to, the system places no limits on anything other than raw production power. There is absolutely no historical basis for this and it is pure fantasy, but there it is.

So while Japan has a completely flexible and responsive production system, you are hog tying the allies into some pretty restrictive and non-responsive corners, with little or no ability to make up for non-historic outcomes in the game.

That’s the biggest weakness to this approach. Let’s say you’re transporting a division to India and a big chunk gets sunk. Since the replacement rates have been tailored to specifically allow x number of units to flesh out, you now can never replenish that division. Or if you do some other unit will never flesh out, because there are a finite number of squads in the replacement stream and there is no potential to make up for your battle losses.

The British didn’t run out of men and stop building new divisions when they did, but your replacement system seems to go off that premise. The British replaced losses just like anyone else, and when replacements ran low they cannibalized their AAA battalions. The US did this as well, but it was in Europe that this happened, not in the Pacific. Or if it did happen in the Pacific it was to a much lesser degree.

Losses after D-Day were far higher than planned and there were not enough replacements in the pipeline to refill depleted units, so cannibalization occurred. But eventually the replacement pipelines adjusted and caught up with the shortfalls.

By using the replacement system to try and recreate the British reluctance to launch an offensive in Burma, you’ve taken away the system that is supposed to allow players to make up their battle losses.

I like the idea of fixed militia squads used to hold units in place with timely reinforcements used to change over equipment items to release them. The problem is you chose to use infantry squads to fix them instead of some other non-essential equipment item that is less needed by the replacement engine.

Make it a special AAA gun that is immobile and upgrades to a mobile one rather than infantry squads. Then you can give the British enough troop replacements to make up for unexpected losses like they should be able to do without breaking your timed releases.

I’d say Britain should get at least a brigades worth of extra squads a year to make up for unexpected battle losses, probably closer to a division if baseforces still use infantry.

Jim


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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 207
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 10:45:20 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

It should be much improved with the new rest/training mode where the speed of squad draw down from the pool is increased if in that mode (I think it still maxes at 1 per day per device line though)

Andy


Since you mentioned the rest/training mode, I have a question concerning it. Will this setting be allowed on any friendly base, or will we need to have a HQ unit present? Currently I believe you need the HQ unit in the same base to really get the replacements in a timely manner (or it seems to help).

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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 208
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/12/2007 11:37:58 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Interestingly the most defended base is Victoria with 8" US CD Guns and 9.2" British Guns plus a load of 6" and 12 Pounder CD Guns.

So not only do you need to pay PP's to release them but you also need to wait for sufficient replacements of the mobile squads.

Forcing ahistoric decisions to have consequences is a major part of the decsion for me.



I believe that Victoria was more heavily armed as it, together with Fort Warden WA, were interlinked with the purpose of blocking the Straits of Juan de Fuca and therefore act as an outer defence to Vancouver, Seatle and Tacoma.

The system sounds like a slick way of re-creating the reality regarding ground troops. El Cid's point on the reinforcement of Alaska is a good point - Particularly for air units. The government at the time had great fear that committing ground troops under command of others (US or UK) would mean heavy casualties (from WW1 experiance) with little payoff internationaly - Dieppe and Hong Kong helped that view along. Thus, in the ETO they were always committed as a Corps minimum with a Cdn Commander (except the first 2 weeks in Normandy). Air units on the other hand were considered an easy win, relativly few people for a measurable combat capability which could be leveraged both at home and internationaly, and if need be they could be pulled back quickly. Alaska was another matter, defence of Alaska was seen as defence of Canada and therefore if it was possible to provide what was needed - it was sent.

I know there was massive cooperation building the Alaska Highway, which, if there was a way to build roads and RR etc, would be something worth adding - maybe in WiTP 2.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 209
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/13/2007 12:05:12 AM   
HMS Resolution


Posts: 350
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline
I was looking through Alanbrooke's diaries last night, and he indicates that while Freyberg and the NZ division were desired for the invasion of Japan, he did not feel Freyberg was qualified to command the corps and that he had a conversation with Freyberg where Freyberg had suggested himself as a potential candidate. Alanbrooke doesn't seem to have been very impressed by him.

(in reply to Kereguelen)
Post #: 210
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