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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/18/2007 11:26:43 PM

TheElf

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From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Blimps

What are they really good for?

What will they do in the game?

Does Japan get them?

IRL blimps are a USN West Coast defensive ASW creature. They operated from special (gigantic) facilities - at Tillimook Oregon - in Los Angelus - and in San Francisco. They could - but did not - operate from ships at sea. They were armed uniformly with a nose .50 cal and 2 depth charges. They could - and at least one was - be shot down by an enemy submarine! They are good assets for patrol because they stay in the air a long time - up to two days - and cover a great distance with the advantage of air observation - from an altitude that makes spotting subs possible (up high it ain't). They eventually were fitted with sonabouys, MAD and radar as well.

They are difficult in WITP I because (a) aircraft are limited to 24 hours; (2) a shortage of aircraft slots; (3) there is no way to put "sonar" on them. I cheated - and created a 'simulated blimp' - one type (K type) - but they really are misnamed PCs - so they can stay at sea two days - have sonar - etc. It will be better to have "real" blimps in AE.

They are chrome, and restricted to West Coast. But they existed and as Cid said performed a valuable service on ASW patrol. Now you can use them that way too.

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Post #: 391

RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/19/2007 7:06:34 AM

1275psi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf
OTS. Kamikazes have not been touched. Read some AAR's later in the war, they work. One thing we did that may help is alter AAA so that during attacks only AAA in the quadrant being approached may fire.

No, they don't work. Only if you set Zekes on max altitude, above Hellcats ceiling...

I guess you tried to say that kamis not been touched, but with new A2A combat routine some of them will FINALLY get trough?

Never say never; I have been hit by the bloody things, Herbie has been able to sneak some in. An LRcap is an iffy proposition, as weather can mess it up on occasion.
I just have to ask, do any of you (I haven't played IJ) tried a high/low split on the attacking groups? Works for me on conventional bombing runs most of the time it seems. Perhaps the altitude settings in AE will also help in this regard.

Hi guys - yes -they DO work -and I have noticed something -sometimes Kamis coming in very high, and very low at the same time does help.
But what really matters is pilot experience

have not posted the AAR yet -but against LRCAP? I just had some Lillies get through -some were high, some low -and 3 hit a CA -and 1 bounced off a battle cruiser.
Low experienced zekes all missed

Kamis do work -you just have to be very, very selective when you deploy, and use (gulp) good pilots...........
I think that inn our game the threat of them is certaintly real enough to force tabpub to take measures......

(in reply to tabpub)

Post #: 392

RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/19/2007 12:03:28 PM

Kereguelen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf
OTS. Kamikazes have not been touched. Read some AAR's later in the war, they work. One thing we did that may help is alter AAA so that during attacks only AAA in the quadrant being approached may fire.

No, they don't work. Only if you set Zekes on max altitude, above Hellcats ceiling...

I guess you tried to say that kamis not been touched, but with new A2A combat routine some of them will FINALLY get trough?

Never say never; I have been hit by the bloody things, Herbie has been able to sneak some in. An LRcap is an iffy proposition, as weather can mess it up on occasion.
I just have to ask, do any of you (I haven't played IJ) tried a high/low split on the attacking groups? Works for me on conventional bombing runs most of the time it seems. Perhaps the altitude settings in AE will also help in this regard.

Hi guys - yes -they DO work -and I have noticed something -sometimes Kamis coming in very high, and very low at the same time does help.
But what really matters is pilot experience

have not posted the AAR yet -but against LRCAP? I just had some Lillies get through -some were high, some low -and 3 hit a CA -and 1 bounced off a battle cruiser.
Low experienced zekes all missed

Kamis do work -you just have to be very, very selective when you deploy, and use (gulp) good pilots...........
I think that inn our game the threat of them is certaintly real enough to force tabpub to take measures......

Yes, Kamis did always work. At least for me and I never used the ground-training method to improve the quality of my Japanese pilots. Attacking with (lots of) airgroups from 3-4 (or more) airbases at various altitudes always did the trick. It does not work with 1-2 big strikes when facing strong CAP, of course. Actually quite simple

(in reply to 1275psi)

Post #: 393

RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/19/2007 12:33:47 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

I don't think this was asked before regarding upcoming WitP AE...

Is there any modification to airbase overstacking rule?

If yes are there any modifications that differ 1-engine planes from 2-engine and 4-engine aircraft (all regarding stacking rules of airbases)?

Thanks in advance (and sorry

for asking thsi again but I think it is important question)!

Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to Kereguelen)

Post #: 394

RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/19/2007 4:05:26 PM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

I don't think this was asked before regarding upcoming WitP AE...

Is there any modification to airbase overstacking rule?

If yes are there any modifications that differ 1-engine planes from 2-engine and 4-engine aircraft (all regarding stacking rules of airbases)?

Thanks in advance (and sorry for asking thsi again but I think it is important question)!

Leo "Apollo11"

Yes and yes. This is still an evolving area, the air team can comment further.

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Post #: 395

RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/19/2007 4:14:05 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

I don't think this was asked before regarding upcoming WitP AE...

Is there any modification to airbase overstacking rule?

If yes are there any modifications that differ 1-engine planes from 2-engine and 4-engine aircraft (all regarding stacking rules of airbases)?

Thanks in advance (and sorry for asking thsi again but I think it is important question)!

Yes and yes. This is still an evolving area, the air team can comment further.

FANTASTIC!!!

Thank you guys!

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

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(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 396

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/19/2007 5:20:48 PM

el cid again

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

Baloon Bomb's: The only thing these devices managed to do was tie down a number of Fighter squadrons in the US for a perioud of time, is this acounted for in game?

I don't think they even did that. We were pretty much unaware of them - and are still discovering crash sites. The only place cataloging them is Burt Webers Silent Siege - a horrible book in terms of writing quality - more like a scrapbook - but full of data - of various quality. University of Oregon sponsors it as it thinks we need a record.

There was only one case involving actual casualties - after landing - a baloon bomb was set off by a teacher and students - and she died.

What is not understood is that these weapons were a test - of the first wmd system of all time with technical overkill capability (theoretically - not practically - as all overkill is theoretical and not practical - because you cannot deliver it to the entire population). The balloons were to deliver anthrax vectored by fleas in ceramic bombs. When the Soviets invaded Manchukuo - the commander, Kwangtung Army called Gen Ichi - chief of Pengfan BW station - and asked "should we launch the attack?" They decided - no. It would not do any good - and might cause horrible reprisals. They decided to destroy all the evidence instead. See Factories of Death, Unit 731, and A Higher Form of Killing. IJN officers disclosed to Webber that they had their own plan - to use submarines with aircraft hangers for balloon launches - but the program was cancelled when some high official got wind of it. This would have permitted attacks precise enough to hit a big urban target - say San Francisco - the favorite target. There was 16 tons of anthrax at Pengfan - enough to kill the entire population of the planet if it could be delivered to them all - the first such instance in wmd history.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 12/19/2007 5:21:36 PM >

(in reply to Brady)

Post #: 397

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 12:45:56 AM

Mike Solli

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1 - If you want to transfer a pilot from an operational unit to duty as an instructor, does the the air unit have to be in a specific base? If not I can see abuse. Some air unit is at a besieged base. All the pilots are transferred to the instructor pool and then transferred to another unit.

2 - Which instructor pilot stats affect the trainees?

3 - Not sure if it belongs here but - Can air units with no planes be loaded on AK? Any other ship types?

Thanks.

(in reply to el cid again)

Post #: 398

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 12:51:18 AM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
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quote:

The balloons were to deliver anthrax vectored by fleas in ceramic bombs

Don't think anthrax spores need a vector...one just needs to inhale them...more akin to breathing a poison gas in that respect. You are confusing anthrax with bubonic plague for which fleas are the vector. It is my understanding that the Japanese used the fleas/plague combo on at least one Chinese city.

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 399

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 3:03:57 AM

JeffroK

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Can we drop red paint on Mt Fuji

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Post #: 400

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 5:22:07 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

Will we be able to destroy aircraft fragments? Something like what was done for the LCUs? Sometimes a fragment from a carrier group will make it to a land base after its carrier is sunk. These units cannot combine with any other unit and they never grow. I would like to be able to destroy them. Also, sometimes you evac a base and have to leave behind some damaged aircraft. These aircraft never repair and the parent Sq can never reach its full strength. These fragments sit there until the enemy takes that base. I can think of other reasons I would want to destroy fragments but this it too long already.

I don't want to be a pain but I never did get an answer to my question.

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Post #: 401

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 6:43:49 PM

Brady

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What about the smaller elements aboard CV's that WiTP could not represent, the recon and scout/patrole units, like the Early Judy's deployed in 2 or 3's on Japanese CV's and the SOC:

Has, or could small CV capable units be added to alow these planes a place in game?

< Message edited by Brady -- 12/20/2007 6:46:49 PM >

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Post #: 402

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 6:52:32 PM

timtom

Posts: 2358
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From: Aarhus, Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

What about the smaller elements aboard CV's that WiTP could not represent, the recon and scout/patrole units, like the Early Judy's deployed in 2 or 3's on Japanese CV's and the SOC:

Has, or could small CV capable units be added to alow these planes a place in game?

quote:

ORIGINAL: timtom

Please direct questions pertaining the OOB of carrier- and other shipbased aviation to the Navy Team. I won't repeat this. For at least the next 24 hours.

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Post #: 403

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 7:10:36 PM

Brady

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Photo from Maru magazine No. 380, March, 1978
Caption reads:
"Type 99 carrier-bomber Model 11, under both wings are 60-kilo bombs. On both sides can be seen dive-brakes. The "VAl" is taking off from Akagi''s extensive flight-deck on anti-submarine patrol, photo taken in the spring of 1942."

Image and translation provided by Bill Somerville via J-Aircraft

Question:
Are Bomb's for ASW work moeled as such and limited to just 60 kg and bigger, or will planes with smaller laods like the ALF be able to use 30 kg loads?

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Post #: 404

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/20/2007 11:07:01 PM

JamesM

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Are you looking into how escort missions are done? What I mean, I have yet to see B29's being escorted to their target even though I have plenty of P51's (including a HQ and a lot of supplies) at Iwo Jima.

(in reply to Brady)

Post #: 405

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/21/2007 2:00:26 PM

Speedysteve

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From: Reading, England
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Hi guys,

A question on A-Bombs.

Is their effect to be chanegd at all? As in when dropped on a City at present they will just damage/destroy industry. Should they not also destroy/damage planes, ships and troops in the hex as well?

Thanks,

Steven

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Post #: 406

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/21/2007 5:05:20 PM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm

Are you looking into how escort missions are done? What I mean, I have yet to see B29's being escorted to their target even though I have plenty of P51's (including a HQ and a lot of supplies) at Iwo Jima.

I'm not aware that we are changing anything in this area - but the way to get "loose" escort even now is to fly a "sweep". Sweeps at same range will often (not always) come in with the bombers. Planes flying sweeps at shorter ranges than the bombers will usually (not always) come in first and "clear the skies" at least a bit, before the bombers show up.

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Post #: 407

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/21/2007 6:10:58 PM

NormS3

Posts: 521
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Couple pilot/instructor questions

Will pilots who are released to be instructors, be sent back to their original squadron later?
Is there still going to be mission limits for all allied pilots?
If so how does being an�instructor affect that?
Are all allied pilots treated the same?� The Dutch, French, and Phillipino, pilots don't (most likely) have a home country to go to.
Will there be a chance to modify any of this in the editor or is it all hard coded?
Will there be a separate pool for Thai and Chicom Pilots?

Sorry for the salvo of questions, but thanks again for all of your answers.

< Message edited by Norm3 -- 12/21/2007 7:02:57 PM >

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Post #: 408

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/21/2007 6:35:13 PM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
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From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm

Are you looking into how escort missions are done? What I mean, I have yet to see B29's being escorted to their target even though I have plenty of P51's (including a HQ and a lot of supplies) at Iwo Jima.

I'm not aware that we are changing anything in this area - but the way to get "loose" escort even now is to fly a "sweep". Sweeps at same range will often (not always) come in with the bombers. Planes flying sweeps at shorter ranges than the bombers will usually (not always) come in first and "clear the skies" at least a bit, before the bombers show up.

Nice "trick"...,but it doesn't really answer Jamesm's question. It should be possible to fly "escort" missions with P-51's from Iwo for B-29's from the Marianas. That's how it was done historically. Is there something in the programming that causes the problem he's observing?

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 409

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/21/2007 7:02:57 PM

Brady

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el cid again-Well acording a some stuff I read and a documentry I saw on the subject they did tie down some Fighter squadrons on the west coast, and the Military was very aware of them, and they undertook a media blackout, no news pappers were alowed to print stories concerning spottings of them. The reasion being that they knew that this info would get back to Japan and they would be able to use it to their advantage. In fact because Japan prety much never heard anything regarding them at all they stoped the programe, they did send lots of them our way though.

Heck a couple years ago while working this job on the Oregon coast (Newport) they uncovered one while digging a septic tank out, it was burried just under the surface in some soft ground, it's ordance still live, they had to get a EOD type to deal with it. I asked the guy's down their if this thing had ever happend before and they said once in a great while some one would find one, but they hadent heard of it in years.

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Post #: 410

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/21/2007 9:54:08 PM

Sardaukar

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From: Finland/Israel
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By the way, will drop tanks be modelled ? They can be used in game even now..but maybe they could be tweaked to be more realistic.

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Post #: 411

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/21/2007 10:07:52 PM

ChezDaJez

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

By the way, will drop tanks be modelled ? They can be used in game even now..but maybe they could be tweaked to be more realistic.�

Not necessarily as expendable stores but they are being worked on as we speak...

Chez

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ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
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Post #: 412

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 12:16:51 AM

el cid again

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

el cid again-Well acording a some stuff I read and a documentry I saw on the subject they did tie down some Fighter squadrons on the west coast, and the Military was very aware of them, and they undertook a media blackout, no news pappers were alowed to print stories concerning spottings of them. The reasion being that they knew that this info would get back to Japan and they would be able to use it to their advantage. In fact because Japan prety much never heard anything regarding them at all they stoped the programe, they did send lots of them our way though.

Heck a couple years ago while working this job on the Oregon coast (Newport) they uncovered one while digging a septic tank out, it was burried just under the surface in some soft ground, it's ordance still live, they had to get a EOD type to deal with it. I asked the guy's down their if this thing had ever happend before and they said once in a great while some one would find one, but they hadent heard of it in years.

All true - hundreds have been found - there is a map in Silent Siege of these sites - as far East as Michigan.

And there was a blackout - Japan heard nothing - and wasn't sure they were landing - one reason for the idea to deliver them from less distant launch points. It was an effective strategy. They worked very well technically speaking - except there was no accuracy over transoceanic distances. Close in would have permitted targeting a metroplex. But bw vs the USA was not going to work well -- too good a health service. In modern Japan a cult launched bw attacks - the same one that did nerve gas in a subway. Japan never knew until they confessed - so good was their health system!

(in reply to Brady)

Post #: 413

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 1:49:09 AM

Sardaukar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

By the way, will drop tanks be modelled ? They can be used in game even now..but maybe they could be tweaked to be more realistic.

Not necessarily as expendable stores but they are being worked on as we speak...

Chez

Good news.

I have a feeling my wife will not like AE expansion...

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Post #: 414

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 2:15:47 AM

Speedysteve

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Any thoughts on my question above?

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Post #: 415

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 3:37:18 AM

Andy Mac

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A bombs and strategic bombing are on the list of things to look at for a few of us and there has been discussions on it especially impact and liklihood (or difficulty of getting firestorms to destroy industry) Its certainly on my list

BUT its such a late war issue and we have so many other things to do it will be on the list for review later probably not on release.

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 416

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 3:44:40 AM

Andy Mac

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p.s also on this same list for me is FOW ing the ability of allies especially to target an industry or factory specifically pin point attacks are to easy at moment just as firestorms are to hard but as I said not for now

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 417

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 10:59:26 AM

Speedysteve

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Cool. Thanks Andy.

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Post #: 418

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 11:22:43 AM

SargeantTex

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I know you wont let the cat out of the bag but here is a list of planes that WITP didnt have that would be great in AE
1. F7F Tigercat

2.F8F Bearcat

3.Sea Hurricane

4.Kikka

5.Japanese version of ME163 (I forget what it was called)

6.Japanese G10 uberbomber

7.Karaya Ka-1 autogyro(I think that is the right name?)

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 419

RE: Aircraft Fragments - 12/22/2007 12:17:34 PM

Fishbed

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From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SargeantTex

I know you wont let the cat out of the bag but here is a list of planes that WITP didnt have that would be great in AE
1. F7F Tigercat

2.F8F Bearcat

3.Sea Hurricane

4.Kikka

5.Japanese version of ME163 (I forget what it was called)

6.Japanese G10 uberbomber

7.Karaya Ka-1 autogyro(I think that is the right name?)

I'd rather choose to have a big cat or a Shooting star, which were flying for real before the end of the war, rather than any additionnal Japanese what-if...

The Kikka would just be an improved kamikaze plane by the time we'd get it...

Edit: sorry I meant Shooting Star, not Starfire, of course