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RE: ASW Missions

 
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RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 5:51:16 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Actually, thanks to code-breaking, we knew where most of them were most of the time. The Japs had their shipping (naval and civilian) reporting their "noontime positions" back to Tokyo every day. Only problems arose when the ship couldn't calculate it's own position accurately to report it.


Useful information certainly. Due to the volume of signal traffic thus sent probably way too much information requiring the code breakers to concentrate mostly on certain important call signs (like those of ships in the KB) rather than worrying about the noon position of the Obscure Maru #31 every day. Keeping track of IJN subs probably did fall within the category of important call signs though.

As far as effective ASW operations are concerned I was speaking about Allied efforts to counter the U-boats in the Atlantic. Lacking SIGINT or a geographical chokepoint roving groups of destroyers and even destroyers with carriers were pretty ineffective except when they operated near convoys. The convoy was bait for the U-boats...you didn't have to go look for them. The hard part of the whole operation (getting your weapons systems within range of the enemy) was, of necessity, completed by the enemy. Once sufficient forces were finally (1943) committed to the battle, the submarines died.


(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 931
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 6:57:59 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

IIRC there is a limit of maybe 99 aircraft on a carrier. In AE will the code be able to handle the 130 aircraft for the CV Midway?


Limit was raised in 1.8.something.



(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 932
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 7:21:01 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Defeating submarines was a science that the UK and US (by dint initially of UK training) were uniquely good at. Contributing technologies included shipboard HFDF (something the Japanese attempted during the late war), ahead-thrown contact exploding weapons that did not mess up sonar unless they hit something (mousetrap/hedgehog), centimetric radar that could detect a conning tower or any other object down to about the size of a late German uboat snorkel head, and active asdic that was flatly superior to anything mounted by the Axis (although the Germans had very good passive acoustic listening systems).

On top of these add aircraft with look-down radar and acoustic torpedoes and you get a pretty good gee-whiz factor that was not remotely matched by the Axis powers.

However, the allies also led organizationally. Thus by late 1942 pretty much every American convoy (thanks to RN instruction) had not only a convoy commander but also a separate ASW asset commander with a dedicated command center just for plotting sub contacts, controlling ASW assets, and hunting subs. AFAIK the Japanese never developed that sort of command and control center for each merchie convoy. They also never developed anything remotely like a dedicated hunter-killer TG of the sort that the US built around CVEs.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 933
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 7:24:31 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		@Tankerace -

Would the revised OOB include USS Terror (CML) or the other WAGCs that were left out of WitP?

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 934
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 7:40:15 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 935
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 7:42:17 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Don - thanks, guess I missed that one.

mdiehl - one point, I believe that the Germans first deployed the acoustic homing torpedo.

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 936
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 8:39:07 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

mdiehl - one point, I believe that the Germans first deployed the acoustic homing torpedo.


The German Falke (G7E/T4) and the US FIDO (Mark 24) both entered general service (deployed) in the same month (March 1943) as a consequence of parallel arms development initiatives in both nations.

Their applications were quite different. Falke was sub-launched and designed as a ship-killer. FIDO was air-dropped and designed as an ASW torpedo.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 937
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 9:10:52 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

@Tankerace -

Would the revised OOB include USS Terror (CML) or the other WAGCs that were left out of WitP?



_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 938
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 9:45:53 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		HOT ZOOTS and OUT-FREAKIN-STANDING !!

Few months ago I asked MBS, LLC (Tim Colton) if they could do specific queries from their database, told them what I wanted and why.

Just got a reply from Gus Moutzalias with everything my little heart could have desired, and much, much, more (except the redhead). He sent me a database of every US Maritime Commission ship built from Jan. '41 to July '46, by name, shipyard, commission date, and including disposition, if known. This is every C1 (subdivided by variant: C1-A, C1-B, C1-S, C1-M), C2 (with variants) C3 (with variants), and has C4s, P1s, P2s, and if you know ships, you will know all the others I don't want to bother mentioning. He key coded every ship that commissioned into the USN, so they can be excluded from a strictly merchie list. He also key coded ships taken by USAT as troopers, so those can be separately listed.

Yeow !!! Woof !!! AE is gonna be sweet !! Lobscouse got a mess o' greens, some ship braid, and a snapper turkle big as yo hat, yow !!

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 939
RE: ASW Missions - 1/21/2008 11:10:42 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

@Tankerace -

Would the revised OOB include USS Terror (CML) or the other WAGCs that were left out of WitP?




Wow, sounds like what we started with CHS years back!!! Can't wait for this Justin.


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 940
RE: ASW Missions - 1/22/2008 5:20:06 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline 		Looks like you hit the motherload, John!!!!!! I just hope the BOS has designs on all these babies!! Looks like we gotta lotta work to to!!

TOMLABEL

_____________________________


Art by the Rogue-USMC

WITP Admiral's Edition: Ship & Sub Art/Base Unit Art/Map Icon Art

"If destruction be our lot - it will come from within"...Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 941
RE: ASW Missions - 1/22/2008 2:46:42 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).





I'll finally have a use for some of the extra ships I've got art for Are the Gearing DD/DDR going to be another example of the multiple classes from the same basic hull (like the four-stackers)?





_____________________________



Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 942
RE: ASW Missions - 1/22/2008 10:18:42 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I know this is nit-picky, but here goes:

Is LST-66 going to be in the game?  She's not in stock. 

My Uncle was on board her for the duration of the war.

Thanks.

(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 943
RE: ASW Missions - 1/22/2008 10:23:05 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'm sure she will, but was somewhat surprised that I missed her myself when I scrubbed the LST list for my mod...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 944
RE: ASW Missions - 1/22/2008 10:31:15 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'm sure she will, but was somewhat surprised that I missed her myself when I scrubbed the LST list for my mod...


Thanks T! My Uncle was right there and moved literally less than an hour to there before the kamikaze hit there.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 945
RE: ASW Missions - 1/22/2008 10:32:09 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That's handy!

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 946
RE: ASW Missions - 1/23/2008 1:47:43 AM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Agree with T.
I will make it a personal priority to see that LST-66 is in the game.
I can't draw your Uncle runnin from the Kamikazes, but I'll have him in mind.

Ciao.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 947
RE: ASW Missions - 1/23/2008 1:50:37 AM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Done!

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 948
RE: ASW Missions - 1/23/2008 1:52:40 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Ta-Da!

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 949
RE: ASW Missions - 1/23/2008 4:42:41 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Wow!  Thanks Guys.  Now, as a JFB, I hope I never run accross her and sink her.  Then my favorite cousin would never be.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 950
RE: ASW Missions - 1/23/2008 7:11:14 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Cool merchie stuff John!

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 951
RE: Ship Sunk Screen Numbers - 1/23/2008 7:52:41 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

Can you list the number of ships sunk for each class of ships on the Ship Sunk Screen? It would only show the numbers for the ships displayed. For example, if you turned off Allie it would only count the Jap ships sunk. It would really help with Battle Damage Assessment.





I just wanted to second this. In the ship selection screen at ports, it lists the number of ships along the right side of the screen, and I have never understood why it doesnt do the same with the ships sunk list. Having the game do the math for you would be very, very helpfull to see quickly what has been lost. Whether its along the top or the side or somewhere else doesnt really matter.

Thanks.

(in reply to siRkid)
Post #: 952
RE: ASW Missions - 1/23/2008 11:04:20 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Yes.

As it is now all Gearings that were historically converted to Pickets arrive as such, however players can convert any Gearing class destroyer to a Gearing radar picket. And as a special bonus you can leave off the emergency AA refit, keep the last bank of TT but losing some 40mm (the Pickets with the AA refit had no TT).

Speaking of Flush Deckers, that's even changed a lot. Each class (Clemson and Wickes) can be converted to the following:

DD (basic 4 4inchers, pre war style).
DD Long Range (Gain 20mms, K Guns, lose one stack and boiler, some speed, get more fuel and endurance)
DD Escort (replace all 4inchers with 6 3in/50s. Historically only Atlantic, but players have the option to convert)

And then of course AVD, DM, DMS, APDs. However rather than those ships automatically changing like in stock, it is now up to the player to convert them. So If late in the war you have a bunch of 4 stackers not doing anything, you can convert the lot of them to APDs. And any of the converstions can be converted back to a DD status (still have to put that in). HOWEVER it depends on the date. If it is before 1943, they will convert back to DD Long Range, if after to Escorts (because in '43 most of the conversions will have lost their 4inch guns).

You'll quickly find that the Wickes class are far too short legged for Pacific duty, and probably convert most of those anyway. Clemsons at least have a decent range. But Wickes Long Rangers can, in 1943, add a hedgehog. So they aren't completely useless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

That's a roger. Along with a host of other little goodies. WAGCs, Fairmiles, Dutch Gouvernmentsmarine Schiffs, etc. PLus other fun stuff that was left out of WitP with the bigger ships. Gearings, Gearing Radar Pickets, Tench class subs, "Gunboat" submarines with 2 5in/25s, the ability to choose the final AA fit on some ships (for example the New Mexicos. Players can choose the New Mexico's fit of retaining 5in/25s and 5in/51s, Mississippi's ad hoc all 5in/25s, or send the ships for overhaul and have Idaho's 10 single 5in/38s).





I'll finally have a use for some of the extra ships I've got art for Are the Gearing DD/DDR going to be another example of the multiple classes from the same basic hull (like the four-stackers)?







_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 953
RE: ASW Missions - 1/23/2008 11:14:47 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Please tell me the HMS Agamemnon (and/or HMS Menestheus) are in AE.

She servered a -very- important fuction....

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 1/23/2008 11:17:38 PM >

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to spence)
Post #: 954
RE: ASW Missions - 1/24/2008 12:43:27 AM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		As auxiliary minelayers or as entertainment ships?

With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex.

_____________________________

When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 955
RE: ASW Missions - 1/24/2008 12:48:32 AM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

She servered a -very- important fuction....

-F-


Watch it, this is a family forum.

BTW, how is that not an actual word?

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 956
RE: ASW Missions - 1/24/2008 2:20:51 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		"With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex. "

Bingo.  Brewery ships.  Talk about wanting that assignment!

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 957
RE: ASW Missions - 1/24/2008 9:24:52 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Talk about the morale penalty (and the explosion) if that thing ever ate a torpedo though.

KaBOOM!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

"With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex. "

Bingo.  Brewery ships.  Talk about wanting that assignment!

-F-



_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 958
RE: ASW Missions - 1/24/2008 2:14:45 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Talk about the morale penalty (and the explosion) if that thing ever ate a torpedo though.

KaBOOM!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

"With a brewery installed they should really up the morale of any LCU in the port hex. "

Bingo.  Brewery ships.  Talk about wanting that assignment!

-F-




KABLAMMO!!!TM


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 959
query re conversions - 1/24/2008 5:44:16 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		If a ship is set to upgrade

1) is there a cost in shipbuilding (or repair) points to do so?

2) is there a reasonable delay to do so? can we set that delay?


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 960
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