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RE: The last 100 days....

 
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RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/7/2008 5:55:46 AM   
DW

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Tactics are subordinate to operations, operations are subordinate to strategy. If the strategy was to whittle down Japanes pilot pools then different, less deep operations which relied less on USN pilots forcing the way and more on small leapfrogs carried out under the cover of USAAF pilots. Look at the war over the last year, it has been one continuous saga of overly deep operations being carried out at ruinous cost far from the protecting umbrella of USAAF pilots.



Where was he supposed to launch small attacks covered by the USAAF that PZB actually had to defend?

By the time Andy had the game sorted enough to begin to launch such attacks, PZB was already sitting pretty with respect to resources and oil and there was no place he had to defend from a strategic point of view except the HI.

He'd have likely done the same thing that he's been doing all along. React with a measured response to Andy's attacks with a careful eye on his pilot pools.


quote:



As to how things would differ... Well, if he had begun subsuming his tactics and operations to his great strategic goal ( of writing down the japanese experienced pilot pool ) a year ago then the operations he would have chosen to follow would have slightly different emphases and carried out slightly differently. A good metaphor here is of pushing an asteroid out of a collision path with earth. If you spot it 4 days before impact then you pretty much have to nuke it and even if you do enough fragments will hit the Earth to devastate it. If, on the other hand you spot it 369 days out then you can mount a little engine on it to give it a little lateral acceleration and over the course of time it will veer enough off course to miss completely.



I understand what you're saying, but in the end PZB has to cooperate with Andy's goal of atritting the Japanese pilot pool. The only way to force PZB to cooperate is to attack a place that he absolutely can't afford to lose. And, due to the nature of this particular game and PZBs stockpiles of oil and resources, the only place that PZB absolutely can't afford to lose is the HI.

And, that state of affairs has been in place for a very long time.

Attacks any other place on the map allow PZB the option of a measured response, which is exactly what he's been doing.

I agree that there are somethings that Andy could have handled better, but none of those things would have altered the basic framework of the strategic situation that Andy was confronted with when he took over the game.

quote:



My point is that while it may seem like little could have been done and the battles now would be much the same I would argue that small differences snowball over time and become quite significant.


The key point is that Andy identified this as a critical weakness and has done very, very little to remedy it effectively over the past year. This is a clear failing on his part and now he is most assuredly paying the price. Could it have been different? Yes, I believe so as he never focussed ruthlessly on a single objective and pursued it with all his force without being distracted by sideshows.


Well, some strategic situations are insoluble in the face of a competent opponent, a limited schedule and the tools at hand.

Andy tried to force combat with his LBA in New Guinea, and PZB refused to commit his air power in pitched battle.

He tried again in the Marshall Islands with the same result.

The same goes for pretty much everywhere else Andy attacked in the outer ring of defenses. PZB offered enough resistance to slow Andy's attack, but not enough to seriously deplete his pilot pools. When things began to get too costly, PZB simply withdrew his air power.

As to going deep, Iwo Jima may have been an over reach, but even had he taken a more measured approach to that campaign, that avenue of attack offered limited opportunity to bring his LBA power into play until he actually captured Iwo Jima, and PZB didn't really need to commit his own air power in a pitched defense until Iwo Jima was under actual assault. I don't think it likely that the result of a more deliberate approach along that axis would have gained results that were much different with respect to atritting pilot pools than Andy's attempt to go deep did.

The same applies to fighting in the SRA and SEAC areas. By the time Andy was in a position to attack in that region, PZD no longer needed to staunchly defend it. So, he didn't. It mattered little whether Andy went deep or stayed shallow because he couldn't use an attack in that region to force PZB to fight unless PZB chose to fight.

Finally, with respect to not ruthlessly perusing a single objective, as far as I recall, Iwo Jima was the only place that Andy seriously attacked that he didn't get. Once PZB had identified it as a target and concentrated his forces on Iwo Jima and Bonin, Andy could have put every division he had in the Pacific on that island and he still wouldn't have gotten it.

Sometimes it's best not to reinforce a failure.

And, while the India sideshow may seem ill advised, it's not clear to me that keeping the troops involved in that operation for use in the Pacific would significantly alter the situation in the Pacific theater. Trying to take any of the islands in the inner defensive ring, when they've all got lvl 9 forts and terrain bonuses is nearly impossible even when one puts every available division onto a given island.

He's probably going to be further ahead with respect to points with capturing India than he would if he had put those same troops onto Amami.

I think, with the state of the game as Andy inherited it, the very competent play on the part of PZB and the limited schedule Andy had to work with, this is one of those instances where the strategic situation defies the available solutions.

I think PZB won this game by the first half of 1943 and less he made a series of serious mistakes, which he didn't, there was no losing it.

Anyway, thanks for elaborating on your point.

I always enjoy hearing others strategic thoughts.





(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 4831
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/7/2008 5:13:07 PM   
Fishbed

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed


quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

The Arunta is one of the lucky ships together with the carrier Wasp



HMAS Arunta was awarded 48 battle stars, one Victoria Cross, twenty-five Georges Cross, one Congressional Medal of Honor, two Presidential Citations, three Legion d'Honneur & one order of Lenin for its Allied service in the Pacific. It is now a floating museum in Sydney.



regrettfully the Arunta is NOT a museum ship in Sydney
She was scrapped.
Ship in Sydney is the Vampire -a Daring Class destroyer.

As an aside, we had an Author -JE Mc Donald who wrote a series of Gun Ho navy war novels loosley based on the Arunta's service.
Real stiff upper lip -36 knots type stuff!



quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

quote:

To bad I didn't go to Sydney when I was down under...only had an old frigate in Brisbane!

That's our alternative reality version of HMAS Arunta, Admiral
Do you believe any ship could somehow expect to get 48 battle stars, 1 VC and 1 CMOH in the real war? This is not the HMAS Arunta from the real war - this is the lucky HMAS Arunta from the great, murderous, PzB war




(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 4832
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/7/2008 10:31:24 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

I think PZB won this game by the first half of 1943 and less he made a series of serious mistakes, which he didn't, there was no losing it.


Yes, PzB has won the game as defined by the game itself. However, he has lost the war. That was inevitable given the Allied material advantages.

Had this game been RL, Japan's surrender would still have only been a matter of time. Whether it would have a negotiated or unconditional surrender, who knows but the amount of men and material arriving from the European theater and Soviet entry ensures that surrender will come.

IRL, the US would not have been able to forego an invasion as the Soviets were already on the move capturing the Kuriles and Sakhalin. Hokkaido would have been next and the US could not allow Soviet troops to occupy large portions of Japanese territory without dire political consequences.

Chez



_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to DW)
Post #: 4833
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/7/2008 11:55:59 PM   
DW

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

I think PZB won this game by the first half of 1943 and less he made a series of serious mistakes, which he didn't, there was no losing it.


Yes, PzB has won the game as defined by the game itself. However, he has lost the war. That was inevitable given the Allied material advantages.

Had this game been RL, Japan's surrender would still have only been a matter of time. Whether it would have a negotiated or unconditional surrender, who knows but the amount of men and material arriving from the European theater and Soviet entry ensures that surrender will come.

IRL, the US would not have been able to forego an invasion as the Soviets were already on the move capturing the Kuriles and Sakhalin. Hokkaido would have been next and the US could not allow Soviet troops to occupy large portions of Japanese territory without dire political consequences.

Chez




Agreed.

There is -no way- that Japan ever had any hope of winning WWII, and any game that models the Pacific war halfway realistically is going to reflect that fact. Unless the allied player makes a series of almost unimaginable mistakes, an outright military victory for Japan is a pipe dream.

When I think about Japan's involvement in WWII, the only thing that really comes to mind is.. "What were they thinking?"

Having said that, I think PzB has done a fantastic job of husbanding his resources and recognizing when he has to fight, when he doesn't and planning his operations accordingly. While he's clearly losing the war, it's difficult to see how anyone could delay a competent opponent any more than PzB has in his game with Andy.


(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 4834
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/8/2008 12:05:53 AM   
pat.casey

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
They thought they wanted it more than the western powers and could make the price of victory so high that the western powers would be unwilling to pay it. Then they could negotiate out some kind of peace deal that would leave Japan in a materially better position than she started. Their hope was to fight a war which was a total war on the Japanese part, but a limited on the part of the Western powers.

Problem is that in order to achieve her operational aim (dominate southeast asia), Japan chose to launch a sneak attack on Peal Harbor, an action which made her political goal impossible to achieve.

It was a classic catch 22. In order to achieve a negotiated victory, Japan had to win fast in the early months of the war and dig in. In order to win fast, she had to keep the US out of the pacific for 6 months, which meant neutralizing the pacific fleet. In order to neutralize the pacific fleet, a surprise attach had to be launched on Pearl, but a surprise attack on Pearl would anger the US enough that she'd be willing to pay the price to win a total war.

Point being the Japanese never thought they could win a total war against any western power, much less all of them at once. Instead, they were banking on keeping the conflict limited in their enemy's eyes.

(in reply to DW)
Post #: 4835
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/8/2008 12:18:40 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline
DW,
IMO the Marianas and Bonins would have been eminently achievable with the sort of outlay we have seen lavished on the Phillipines, Malaysia and India. Add in a little detour to Okinawa to pick off the least-defended island there and with just these three invasions we would have the following:

1. A progression from Marianas to Bonins which would have been well within range of any Allied bombers and even some long-range escort fighters ( P-51, P-38 ).
2. The option of hitting the Home Islands with fighter sweeps from Chichi Jima and Minami Shima and bomber raids from Iwo Jima. In addition LRCAP from the Bonins could have covered Allied fleets making for Okinawa until they were within 1 day of landing. This would have, if properly managed, allowed him to greatly husband his USN fighter pools.
3. With one of the Okinawa islands in US hands a successful blockade featuring significant numbers of tactical bombers etc could have been effected. Over time, to make the blockade even more effective I would have manoeuvred against Formasa so as to create a moderately self-sustaining base where the necessary supply convoys could be LRCAPED from the Bonins, Okinawa and Formosa itself for their entire journey.

The idea would have been to wear IJN and IJA fighters down with ceaseless USAAF, USMC and Allied fighter sweeps over the Home Islands, bomb into rubble anything the Japanese didn't defend and to prevent further Japanese transports making it back to the Home Islands with supplies, reinforcements and OIL/RESOURCES.

Sure, it isn't as glamorous as what happened BUT it is a damn sight surer. In AndyMac's situation he really needed to just concentrate on bombing the Home Islands into nothingness ASAP. Without resource centres and HI the Home Islands would, quickly enough, run out of supply and without supply fighters can't be replaced, bombers won't fly and troops won't fight. When supplies were at that level a ground invasion is eminently possible.

Since each thrust is less deep and can be covered by USAAF LRCAP losses to shipping would also, almost certainly, have been lessened which would also have helped any future invasion.


Well, some strategic situations are insoluble in the face of a competent opponent, a limited schedule and the tools at hand.
No, in such situations then one must simply alter the parameters in order to make the strategic situation soluble again. AndyMac accepted a strategic situation which was stacked against him instead of doing his best to change it so that it was no longer so stacked against him. In war or a game I'll always bet with the guy who looks for ways to change the game if the odds are against him than the guy who simply accepts the  game as is.

Trying to take any of the islands in the inner defensive ring, when they've all got lvl 9 forts and terrain bonuses is nearly impossible even when one puts every available division onto a given island.
Well, it is four times easier if you have taken the time and effort to bomb that island into submission with massive bomber raids over the past few weeks such that that island has no supplies left. In such situations the larger the garrison the quicker it runs out of supply and becomes fairly powerless.
Also, by following one main objective without diversion one CAN bring the entire Allied strength to bear on just one point and beat down these massive strongpoints in series. If the full Allied force is brought to bear then the Japanese simply cannot win.... If the Allies disperse their effort then all manner of things are possible.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 4836
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/8/2008 1:05:05 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline
Wow, a discussion on strategy and tactics in my absence - always welcome!
Appreciate the support guys!

To be fair I think it is a bit easy to be wise after the event.
Andy deserves credit for at all to pick up this glowing potato.
I know my weaknesses and what he could have done to make life even more miserable for me,
guess I should be happy that he cannot read minds

Andy would probably have failed to take the Marianas unless he entered via Northern Guinea and perhaps
captured Truk and nearby islands first. This would be doable and made it possible to invade Bonins
and PI's at will in 45. His aim has been to push on to the Home Islands at all cost and I don't think
'conventional' strategy could have brought him there quickly enough.

Sure enough, he could have captured Marianas, Okinawas, PI's and maybe Formosa and started working on Okinawas
by the time the war ended.

Another bloody day in the air and on the ground!
We keep air superiority over Amami and Kadina while enemy suppress Naha.

We hit 2 CVEs today.

On the ground Andy attacks Amami again and just barely manages a 1-1 odds which reduces
forts to lvl 5! We loose 10500 to 8500 enemy casualties. That hurt and it looks like Andy
will manage to wrestle down the forts in time. With such losses his army will be wrecked and
useless for a follow up invasion of the Home Islands. That is the plan

The question is how much more we should expend to defend Amami - how much longer will such an effort
delay its fall and further weaken the enemy?

When Amami falls we will become vulnerable to massive T-bolt sweeps over Kyushu while longer range fighters
like the P-51 and P-38 will sweep all the way to Osaka and Tokyo. Only our Shindens will keep them at bay
at a huge cost.

I'm still a bit uncertain whether the game really ends on 01.03 or 01.04 1946.
Can anyone give me a 100% confirmation here?
If it ends 01.03 Andy won't have time for another 'stunt'.
If it ends 01.04 we may have to face another wave....

Some good news from the ops report here:
H8K Emily has spotted Manila Bay at 56,44
Manila Bay is reported HIT

That should hurt!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/01/45


Bombardments

Andy is using his cripples to bombard Bombay!!

Naval bombardment of Bombay, at 20,10

Allied Ships
BB Richelieu, heavy damage
BB Maryland, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
58 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
Ki-100 Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 10
TBM Avenger x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-100 Tony: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
68 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 6
Port hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 12

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator VI: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
97 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Port hits 5
Port supply hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 7

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
54 casualties reported

Port hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We put up a sizeable CAP over Kadina as well and enemy strikes did not get through!

Day Air attack on Kadina , at 54,45

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 14
J7W Shinden x 68
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 7
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 28

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 1 damaged
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Likewise, we held air superiority over Amami today!

Day Air attack on Amami , at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 81
J7W Shinden x 22
C6N1-S Myrt x 18
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 41
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 14
Ki-100 Tony x 39

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Reppu: 2 destroyed
C6N1-S Myrt: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 7 destroyed
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100 Tony: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5N Hellcat: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amami , at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 81
J7W Shinden x 22
C6N1-S Myrt x 16
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 37
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 14
Ki-100 Tony x 35

Allied aircraft
P-61A Black Widow x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Reppu: 1 destroyed
C6N1-S Myrt: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 8 destroyed
Ki-100 Tony: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-61A Black Widow: 11 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy sent all his 4Es to suppress Naha - and succeeded at a high price.
Our sacrifices kept Amami 'dry' and allowed Kadina to repair all AF damage.

Day Air attack on Naha , at 54,46

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 54
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 16

Allied aircraft
Mosquito B.XXVI x 10
P-38J Lightning x 21
F-5C Lightning x 4
P-51D Mustang x 16
B-29 Superfortress x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Mosquito B.XXVI: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 7 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 16 destroyed
B-29 Superfortress: 4 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Naha , at 54,46

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 29
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 5

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 4
P-38J Lightning x 61
P-51D Mustang x 18
PB4Y Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 72
B-29 Superfortress x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 42 destroyed - ouch!
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 8 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 5 destroyed
B7A Grace: 6 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
B6N Jill: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 7 destroyed, 6 damaged
P-51D Mustang: 8 destroyed
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
B-29 Superfortress: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
168 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 100
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Naha , at 54,46

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 5

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 87

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 1 destroyed
B7A Grace: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
122 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 12
Runway hits 126
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Naha , at 54,46

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 5

Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 3
B-24J Liberator x 52
B-29 Superfortress x 76

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 2 damaged
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 1 destroyed
B7A Grace: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-29 Superfortress: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
164 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 205
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 55th Ind.Mixed/A Brigade, at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 81
J7W Shinden x 22
C6N1-S Myrt x 13
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 31
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 14
Ki-100 Tony x 30

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 13 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 20,8

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 13
SB2C Helldiver x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Heiyo Maru, Shell hits 40, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Bombay at 20,10

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 5

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Suwa Maru, Shell hits 12, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 13
F6F Hellcat x 9
F4U-1 Corsair x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 8
P-51D Mustang x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zeke: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Barnes, Kamikaze hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 13
F6F Hellcat x 9
F4U-1 Corsair x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 8
P-51D Mustang x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zeke: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Commencement Bay
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 19,11

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Richelieu, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Bombay

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4688 troops, 162 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1063

Defending force 84996 troops, 581 guns, 183 vehicles, Assault Value = 1141

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Amami

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 293115 troops, 1956 guns, 2218 vehicles, Assault Value = 5356

Defending force 73833 troops, 527 guns, 27 vehicles, Assault Value = 1620

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied max assault: 4741 - adjusted assault: 1426

Japanese max defense: 1551 - adjusted defense: 1334

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 5

Japanese ground losses:
10583 casualties reported - ouch!
Guns lost 216
Vehicles lost 4

Allied ground losses:
8442 casualties reported
Guns lost 199
Vehicles lost 39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lahore managed to hold for one day....

Ground combat at Lahore

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 4441 troops, 0 guns, 206 vehicles, Assault Value = 109

Defending force 2293 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 52

Allied max assault: 190 - adjusted assault: 114

Japanese max defense: 44 - adjusted defense: 12

Allied assault odds: 9 to 1 (fort level 9)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Japanese ground losses:
459 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------

KAMIKAZE!!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 4837
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/8/2008 2:09:54 AM   
Naskra

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline
End of Game = 1946. april 1.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 4838
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/8/2008 4:16:53 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
I thought you said you hit a couple of CVEs. I only saw one hit in the combat report.

(in reply to Naskra)
Post #: 4839
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/8/2008 6:20:30 AM   
DW

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pat.casey

They thought they wanted it more than the western powers and could make the price of victory so high that the western powers would be unwilling to pay it. Then they could negotiate out some kind of peace deal that would leave Japan in a materially better position than she started. Their hope was to fight a war which was a total war on the Japanese part, but a limited on the part of the Western powers.


Yea.

I know what I wrote, but in reality I really do understand what the Japanese were thinking.

Grab what we want fast, and make it so expensive to take back that the decedent westerners will throw in the towel.

It's just that their estimates of almost everything concerning the U.S., from our industrial might to our willingness to fight was so far off the mark that it begs credulity.

And, even worse, the military leadership of the government refused to listen to the people in Japan who did understand the U.S. and what they'd be up against.

I recall reading an interview with a Japanese diplomat. Soon after the Japanese had conquered what they wanted Tojo nonchalantly directed him to arrange for the end of the conflict, as if it was no big deal.

Riiight....

Like that was going to happen.

Even late war they were hoping they could get the Soviets to broker a peace deal. How naive was that?


quote:


Problem is that in order to achieve her operational aim (dominate southeast asia), Japan chose to launch a sneak attack on Peal Harbor, an action which made her political goal impossible to achieve.

It was a classic catch 22. In order to achieve a negotiated victory, Japan had to win fast in the early months of the war and dig in. In order to win fast, she had to keep the US out of the pacific for 6 months, which meant neutralizing the pacific fleet. In order to neutralize the pacific fleet, a surprise attach had to be launched on Pearl, but a surprise attack on Pearl would anger the US enough that she'd be willing to pay the price to win a total war.

Point being the Japanese never thought they could win a total war against any western power, much less all of them at once. Instead, they were banking on keeping the conflict limited in their enemy's eyes.


Agreed.

(in reply to pat.casey)
Post #: 4840
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/8/2008 7:49:45 AM   
DW

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

DW,
IMO the Marianas and Bonins would have been eminently achievable with the sort of outlay we have seen lavished on the Phillipines, Malaysia and India. Add in a little detour to Okinawa to pick off the least-defended island there and with just these three invasions we would have the following:



It doesn't seem to me that, with the exception of the fighting around the SRA, the offensives you reference absorbed much of Andy's resources. For the most part PzB didn't fiercely contest those areas.

quote:



1. A progression from Marianas to Bonins which would have been well within range of any Allied bombers and even some long-range escort fighters ( P-51, P-38 ).
2. The option of hitting the Home Islands with fighter sweeps from Chichi Jima and Minami Shima and bomber raids from Iwo Jima. In addition LRCAP from the Bonins could have covered Allied fleets making for Okinawa until they were within 1 day of landing. This would have, if properly managed, allowed him to greatly husband his USN fighter pools.
3. With one of the Okinawa islands in US hands a successful blockade featuring significant numbers of tactical bombers etc could have been effected. Over time, to make the blockade even more effective I would have manoeuvred against Formasa so as to create a moderately self-sustaining base where the necessary supply convoys could be LRCAPED from the Bonins, Okinawa and Formosa itself for their entire journey.



To point 1: That certainly a viable avenue of attack, but the problem Andy was facing by that stage in the game was the clock. If I recall correctly, it was well into the first half of 1944 before Andy had sufficiently cleared up the New Britain area to make such attacks possible.

Much of Andy's air power would have been consumed keeping Truk suppressed making it difficult employ sufficient air power against the Marianas suppress to the four airfields in the area that need suppressing.

The brunt of the air battle still would have fallen on his carrier force and Andy's ability to maintain projected force as far out as the Marianas for any length of time was limited.

Andy could gain control of the area with his navy, but he couldn't maintain it long enough to prevent PzB from reinforcing and resupplying before being forced to withdrawal, and even then he'd be having the same problems with attrition to his naval pilot pools that he encountered when he went deep for Iwo Jima.

As I see it, it would have turned into a protracted battle that Andy didn't have time for. He would have won it eventually, but then he's have had to turn right around and fight a similar battle at Iwo Jima and by that time the game would be nearing it's close.

You've certainly outlined a viable strategy, and had Andy controlled the same territory by the middle of 1943 that he wasn't able to achieve in this game until the middle of 1944, it would definitely be worth attempting.

But, by the time Andy had the muscle to try something like you outline, it was too late in the game to be an attractive option. He desperately needed to make up some time and going deep was the best chance of doing so.

As to the other two points, that's certainly the way to go if one has more time

quote:



The idea would have been to wear IJN and IJA fighters down with ceaseless USAAF, USMC and Allied fighter sweeps over the Home Islands, bomb into rubble anything the Japanese didn't defend and to prevent further Japanese transports making it back to the Home Islands with supplies, reinforcements and OIL/RESOURCES.


I don't think that blockading Japan at that late stage in the game would have made any difference at all. By that time PzB was already flush with oil/resources, and had enough to last the remainder of the war.


quote:


Sure, it isn't as glamorous as what happened BUT it is a damn sight surer. In AndyMac's situation he really needed to just concentrate on bombing the Home Islands into nothingness ASAP. Without resource centres and HI the Home Islands would, quickly enough, run out of supply and without supply fighters can't be replaced, bombers won't fly and troops won't fight. When supplies were at that level a ground invasion is eminently possible.



I agree, but that would have taken more time than Andy had to work with.

quote:



Since each thrust is less deep and can be covered by USAAF LRCAP losses to shipping would also, almost certainly, have been lessened which would also have helped any future invasion.



While Andy commented on his shipping from time to time, I didn't see much evidence that he was suffering from any serious shortages of shipping. I don't think that has really been a serious factor in the game.

quote:




Well, some strategic situations are insoluble in the face of a competent opponent, a limited schedule and the tools at hand.
No, in such situations then one must simply alter the parameters in order to make the strategic situation soluble again. AndyMac accepted a strategic situation which was stacked against him instead of doing his best to change it so that it was no longer so stacked against him. In war or a game I'll always bet with the guy who looks for ways to change the game if the odds are against him than the guy who simply accepts the game as is.



That brings us right back to the time factor again.

While Andy had the resources for such a campaign, he simply didn't have the time to alter the strategic battlefield with the methodical sort of war of attrition that you've suggested.


quote:



Trying to take any of the islands in the inner defensive ring, when they've all got lvl 9 forts and terrain bonuses is nearly impossible even when one puts every available division onto a given island.
Well, it is four times easier if you have taken the time and effort to bomb that island into submission with massive bomber raids over the past few weeks such that that island has no supplies left. In such situations the larger the garrison the quicker it runs out of supply and becomes fairly powerless.



It is if one can actually isolate the islands and prevent resupply.

So far in this game, even with his fleets sitting right on top of the islands, Andy has been unable to prevent PzB from resupplying.

Since PzB was already flush with respect to resources/oil, he could afford to sacrifice his merchant fleet in suicide resupply missions, and he's been doing so. He did it at Iwo Jima and he's doing it again at Amami.

quote:


Also, by following one main objective without diversion one CAN bring the entire Allied strength to bear on just one point and beat down these massive strongpoints in series. If the full Allied force is brought to bear then the Japanese simply cannot win.... If the Allies disperse their effort then all manner of things are possible.


Without the serious losses the allied player suffered before Andy took over, I'd be more inclined to agree.

But, by the time Andy took over he was already a year or so behind the sort of timetable the allies can typically achieve.

I think that the time deficit negates the methodical sort of approach that you're espousing.

That makes going deep the more attractive option.

True, it was more of a gamble, but it was also the only option I see that provided an avenue to an unambiguous victory.

In this case, Andy lost the gamble.

But, between a methodical approach that's likely to result in defeat by calender, and a bold approach that offerers a small but real chance of achieving a clear victory, I think the bold choice is the wiser choice to make.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 4841
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/9/2008 1:02:37 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline
One of the CVEs were hit by a Mavis patrol craft Cap & Gown - I listed the hit on the top of the last report.
A hit by a Mavis should cause serious damage to such a fragile craft!

Bugger, this game lasts a little to long - 9 months without reinforcements is a loong time.

Andy launches yet another deliberate attack against Amami and just barely achieves another 1-1 odds and forts
are down to 4. 8000 friendly and 6000 enemy casualties. But now Andy cannot even manage a 1000 assault points,
his troops must be worn down. Can he really manage another series of assaults - or do he have to bring in another
wave of reinforcements? This would cause a lot more damage

I concentrated fighters in Kadina - this provded leaky CAP over Amami and the enemy suffered.
Again enemy TFs have withdrawn out of the Amami base hex.

I feel enemy strength is slipping - no longer any heavy 4E attacks escorted by large numbers of Lightnings, Widdows and
Mustangs. All their smaller strikes suffer heavy casualties and morale is getting low and I doubt Andy can both close Kadina
and suppress Amami.

Who will prevail?


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/02/45

Night Surface Combat

Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese Ships
AK Koho Maru, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
AK Eiwa Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Robinson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice shooting by the Fuso Maru - a 3/60" shell hits the Robinson and she retires!

Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese Ships
AP Fuso Maru, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
DD Robinson, Shell hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese Ships
AG AG-2093, Shell hits 16, and is sunk
AG AG-2094, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
AG AG-2097
AG AG-2098
AG AG-2527, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AG AG-2530, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Robinson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Bombay is getting an increasing amount of heat. Can't stop thinking that I'm glad these
extra fighters and bombers are not around Okinawas.

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 13
TBM Avenger x 44

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Reppu: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
154 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Allied aircraft
Vengeance I x 9
Liberator VI x 13

Allied aircraft losses
Vengeance I: 3 damaged
Liberator VI: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
157 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4
Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 7

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator VI: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Port hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 41

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
246 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Port hits 14
Port supply hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kadina , at 54,45

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 10
J7W Shinden x 136
C6N1-S Myrt x 12
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 31
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 47
Ki-100 Tony x 11

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amami , at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 22
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 3
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 17

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 20
Corsair IV x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 15 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 16 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses - a rather good result me thinks!
F4U-1 Corsair: 5 destroyed, 3 damaged
Corsair IV: 21 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amami , at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 35
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 7

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 21
P-61A Black Widow x 7
B-29 Superfortress x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses - a seriously good result
P-51D Mustang: 17 destroyed
P-61A Black Widow: 6 destroyed
B-29 Superfortress: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our little Amami CAP cause lots of damage today!

Day Air attack on Amami , at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 18
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 41

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 12 destroyed, 17 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 20,8

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Suwa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 54,44

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 3
Ki-102a Randy x 9
Ki-67 Peggy x 12

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 136
F4U-1D Corsair x 38

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-102a Randy: 9 destroyed
Ki-67 Peggy: 11 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 5 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 5

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N Jill: 5 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at 23,10

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3660 troops, 0 guns, 211 vehicles, Assault Value = 114

Defending force 85 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6

Allied max assault: 212 - adjusted assault: 253

Japanese max defense: 5 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 253 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
61 casualties reported

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bombay

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4688 troops, 162 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1091

Defending force 84696 troops, 585 guns, 184 vehicles, Assault Value = 1142

Japanese ground losses:
61 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Amami

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 281777 troops, 1682 guns, 2146 vehicles, Assault Value = 4418

Defending force 62050 troops, 269 guns, 24 vehicles, Assault Value = 1238

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied max assault: 2911 - adjusted assault: 1081

Japanese max defense: 1031 - adjusted defense: 904

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 4

Japanese ground losses:
8324 casualties reported
Guns lost 113
Vehicles lost 7

Allied ground losses:
6224 casualties reported
Guns lost 26
Vehicles lost 80
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lahore

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 4464 troops, 0 guns, 207 vehicles, Assault Value = 110

Defending force 1847 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 28

Allied max assault: 190 - adjusted assault: 100

Japanese max defense: 21 - adjusted defense: 2

Allied assault odds: 50 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Lahore base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
434 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Allied ground losses:
58 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 4

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Kadina Fighter Hub




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to DW)
Post #: 4842
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/9/2008 6:28:40 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed


quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

The Arunta is one of the lucky ships together with the carrier Wasp



HMAS Arunta was awarded 48 battle stars, one Victoria Cross, twenty-five Georges Cross, one Congressional Medal of Honor, two Presidential Citations, three Legion d'Honneur & one order of Lenin for its Allied service in the Pacific. It is now a floating museum in Sydney.



regrettfully the Arunta is NOT a museum ship in Sydney
She was scrapped.
Ship in Sydney is the Vampire -a Daring Class destroyer.

As an aside, we had an Author -JE Mc Donald who wrote a series of Gun Ho navy war novels loosley based on the Arunta's service.
Real stiff upper lip -36 knots type stuff!



quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

quote:

To bad I didn't go to Sydney when I was down under...only had an old frigate in Brisbane!

That's our alternative reality version of HMAS Arunta, Admiral
Do you believe any ship could somehow expect to get 48 battle stars, 1 VC and 1 CMOH in the real war? This is not the HMAS Arunta from the real war - this is the lucky HMAS Arunta from the great, murderous, PzB war






The real Arunta

HMAS ARUNTA (I)
Statistics
Type Tribal Class Destroyer
Displacement 1,970 tons (standard), 2,700 tons (full load)
Length 377 feet 6 inches (overall)
Beam 36 feet 6 inches (maximum)
Draught 9 feet (mean)
Builder Cockatoo Docks and Engineering Co Ltd, Sydney
Laid Down 15 November 1939
Launched 30 October 1940
Machinery Parsons geared turbines, twin screws
Horsepower 44,000
Speed 36 knots
Armament 4 x 4.7-inch guns
2 x 4-inch guns
6 x 40mm anti-aircraft guns
4 x 2-pounder anti-aircraft guns
4 x 21-inch torpedo tubes
Squid triple barrelled anti-submarine depth charge mortars
Complement 250

HMAS ARUNTA, the first of three Tribal Class destroyers built at Cockatoo Dockyard during World War II, was commissioned on 30 March 1942 under the command of Commander James C. Morrow DSO RAN.

Following a period of trials and working up, ARUNTA commenced operational duty on 17 May 1942 on anti-submarine patrol off the Australian east coast. This service continued until August. This period encompassed the Japanese midget submarine attack on Sydney Harbour and the loss of three ships that were torpedoed in June off the coast of New South Wales. Japanese submarines remained active in July, sinking four ships totalling 15,000 tons.

On 11 August 1942 ARUNTA began escorting convoys and other shipping between Australia and New Guinea. On 29 August she experienced her first contact with the enemy when she destroyed by depth charge the Japanese Submarine RO33 off Port Moresby. In September she continued escorting convoys to New Guinea and while thus engaged took on board the survivors of the SS ANSHUN at Milne Bay after that ship had been sunk by Japanese cruisers on the night of 6/7 September.

On 7 January 1943 ARUNTA entered Darwin Harbour for the first time when she arrived to take part in the evacuation of guerilla troops from Timor. The operation as completed on 10 January and ARUNTA then proceeded to Sydney for a two week refit. In February she resumed the escort of New Guinea bound convoys.

Between April and June 1943 ARUNTA continued to escort shipping between Queensland ports and New Guinea. On 4 May 1943 she became a unit of Task Force 74, the composite Australian-American force operating with the 7th Fleet. In June she spent 23 days in company with the Task Force, of which HMAS AUSTRALIA was the Flagship, mainly cruising in north east Australian waters. At the close of June 1943 Task Force 74 entered the Coral Sea to give covering support for the American landings on Kiriwina and Woodlark Islands.

In early July ARUNTA continued operating as a destroyer with Task Force 74 covering the Woodlark-Kiriwina operations. It was uneventful cruising interrupted by several days refuelling in the Flinders Islands Group. In mid July she proceeded in company with Task Force 74 to Espiritu Santo where she detached to proceed to Townsville with her sister ship HMAS WARRAMUNGA. The remainder of the July / August period was spent on escort and anti-submarine duty in the South and South West Pacific. On 31 August ARUNTA began a three week refit in Sydney, sailing on 21 September for Melbourne to become part of the escort of a north bound coastal convoy, arriving in Brisbane on 3 October.

On 8 October 1943 ARUNTA returned to Melbourne, sailing the following day for Townsville the following day escorting a convoy. From Townsville she proceeded to Milne Bay in company with HMAS STUART, escorting the Landing Ships (Infantry) HMAS MANOORA and HMAS WESTRALIA. On 28 October she arrived in Brisbane from New Guinea and there rejoined the Australian Squadron (Task Force 74) consisting of HMA Ships AUSTRALIA, SHROPSHIRE, WARRAMUNGA and ARUNTA and US Ships RALPH TALBOT and HELM.

On 5 November Task Force 74 arrived at Milne Bay where it remained based throughout the month. The Task Force spent six days at sea in the Solomons area giving distant covering support to the Bougainville operations then in progress. The four destroyers, operating as a detached group, bombarded the Gasmata (New Britain) area on 30 November. ARUNTA and WARRAMUNGA expended 909 rounds of 4.7-inch ammunition against Japanese ammunition dumps near the mouth of the Anwek River. On 27 November the cruiser USS NASHVILLE joined Task Force 74.

December 1943 opened with Task Force 74 at Milne Bay preparing for the New Britain operations and was strengthened on 3 December by a second cruiser, USS PHOENIX. The first two weeks were spent exercising in New Guinea waters. On 14 December AUSTRALIA, SHROPSHIRE, ARUNTA, WARRAMUNGA and RALPH TALBOT, constituting Task Group 74.1, sailed from Milne Bay for the first phase of the New Britain operations, the landings at Arawe. There was no opposition to the covering forces. On 16 December Task Force 74 returned to Milne Bay.

On 26 December a second landing took place at Cape Gloucestor, for which Task Force 74 again gave cover and bombardment support to the American amphibious groups (Task Force 76). Again there was no enemy naval reaction and only a small counter attack from the air. On 28 December Task Force 74 withdrew to Buna. At the close of the 1943 ARUNTA had reached 100,000 miles steamed since commissioning.

January 1944 opened with ARUNTA temporarily attached to Task Force 76 (the American amphibious group), constituting with WARRAMUNGA and the two American destroyers Task Unit 76.1.3. On 1 January the four destroyers gave support to the American 32nd Division for the landings at Saidor, New Guinea. Thereafter throughout the month ARUNTA was busy on escort duties between New Britain and New Guinea. On 16 January, off Saidor, ARUNTA captured her only Japanese prisoner of the war when she picked up an airman shot down by American fighters. At the close of January ARUNTA detached from Task Unit 76.1.3. On 1 February she sailed for Sydney for refit.

ARUNTA returned to Milne Bay, New Guinea, on 1 March 1944 and rejoined Task Unit 76.1.3 (eight destroyers) for the landings in the Admiralty Islands. On 3 March she embarked troops of the 7th US Cavalry, stores and ammunition and sailed with the Task Unit for Hyane Harbour in the Admiralties, where after preliminary bombardment she put the troops and stores safely ashore.

ARUNTA was constantly at sea on escort and patrol duty in support of the troops ashore in the Admiralty Islands until 27 March, when at Milne Bay she rejoined Task Force 74 for exercises in preparation for the landings at Hollandia on the New Guinea coast.

On 19 April ARUNTA sailed from Manus with Task Force 74 as one of the units of the very large naval forces assembled to carry out the first large scale landings in Japanese held New Guinea. The plan of operations was to seize and occupy the Tanahmerah Bay, Humboldt Bay and Aitape areas, isolate large bodies of Japanese troops and thus put an end to effective enemy resistance in New Guinea. Again the Japanese put up no effective resistance and some 79,000 troops were landed under the cover of naval bombardment with negligible casualties.


Task Force 74 remained in the Hollandia area providing bombardment support when called upon until 3 May when it withdrew to Manus to prepare for a further phase of the campaign to destroy the Japanese Army in New Guinea.

In mid May 1944 ARUNTA took part in the seizure of Wakde Island, her duty with Task Force 74 being mainly confined to the bombardment of adjacent areas on the mainland on 17 May ('D' Day) when she expended more than 300 rounds of 4.7-inch ammunition. On Wakde the Japanese garrison fought to the last man (only one prisoner was taken) and some 859 dead were counted after the battle.

Following the Wakde operations Task Force 74 returned briefly to Hollandia before sailing on 25 May to give cover and bombardment support for the landings on Biak Island on 27 May.

In June Task Force 74 operated in the Biak area to prevent any Japanese attempt to counter attack or reinforce Biak. For most of the month the Australian Squadron operated in company with Task Force 75 (cruiser group), cruising in the threatened area by night and withdrawing towards Hollandia by day. On the night of 7/8 June four Japanese destroyers were contacted and a high speed but unsuccessful chase developed (ARUNTA exceeded 30 knots) which was finally abandoned when the leading Allied destroyers were 30 miles south east of Mapia Island.

On 10 June the Biak patrol ended and Task Force 74 returned to Manus to prepare for the landing of Allied troops on Noemfoor, a small island lying at the northern head of Geelvink Bay in New Guinea. This took place on 2 July when after a heavy naval bombardment the troops went ashore unopposed. ARUNTA contributed 545 rounds to the hail of shell fire.

Following withdrawal from Noemfoor on completion of the bombardments, Task Force 74 was allotted the task of eliminating Japanese shore batteries eastward of Aitape on the New Guinea mainland. In these operations ARUNTA was assigned bombardment tasks on six days before joining Task Force 78 (three cruisers and nine destroyers) to give support to the Cape Sansapor landings on 30 July.

ARUNTA spent August in Sydney, returning to New Guinea on 1 September in time to take part in the final major landing operation of the New Guinea campaign, the seizure of Morotai Island on 15 September. On completion of the Morotai operations, Task Force 74 proceeded to Mios Woendi and thence, on 25 September, to Manus to prepare for the American advance to the Philippines.

On 13 October 1944 ARUNTA sailed from Hollandia with the vast armada assembled for the landings at Leyte Gulf in the Philippines. She was attached, with HMA Ships AUSTRALIA, SHROPSHIRE and WARRAMUNGA, to Task Group 77.3 (Close Covering Group) under Rear Admiral Berkey USN. She took part in the pre landing bombardments and on 25 October, with SHROPSHIRE, took part in the final and most decisive surface engagement of World War II – the Battle of Surigao Strait. Fought in the darkness, the Japanese were placed at a hopeless tactical disadvantage which ended in their complete rout with the loss of two battleships and three destroyers. The Allied force, under Rear Admiral Oldendorf USN, comprised six battleships, eight cruisers and 20 Destroyers, did not lose any ships and suffered only superficial damage. ARUNTA remained with the task groups patrolling the Leyte area until 16 November when she sailed for Manus. In all she spent 28 days in the Leyte area under frequent air attack but suffered no damage and fortunately was not attacked by the 'Kamikaze' aircraft which inflicted such grievous damage on many ships of the Allied fleet including HMAS AUSTRALIA.

December was spent at Manus until Boxing Day when she proceeded in company with AUSTRALIA, SHROPSHIRE, WARRAMUNGA and three US destroyers to return to Leyte.

In January 1945 ARUNTA took part in the second phase of the Philippines campaign, the landings at Lingayen. The entire attack force for the operation comprised in all some 850 ships of which 305 were fighting or semi fighting ships. Eleven RAN ships were included. Four of them, AUSTRALIA, SHROPSHIRE, ARUNTA and WARRAMUNGA, were attached to Task Group 77.2, consisting of six battleships, six cruisers and 29 destroyers divided into two groups.

The landings were successfully completed on 9 January in the face of continual air attack. Twelve ships of Task Group 77.2 were damaged by 'Kamikaze' planes including AUSTRALIA which was hit five times. ARUNTA was damaged during the approach on 5 January when a 'Kamikaze' narrowly missed crashing into her port side. Two ratings died of wounds. Following the landings ARUNTA proceeded to Leyte escorting AUSTRALIA and reported for at Lingayen with Task Group 77.2 on 22 January. Thereafter until the close of February ARUNTA continued to support the Philippines campaign as a unit of the Lingayen Defence Force. On 5 March she returned to Manus, departing on 10 March for Sydney to refit.

ARUNTA sailed from Sydney for Manus on 2 May 1945 after six weeks in refit. On 10/11 May she took part in the naval operations in support of the landing of the 6th Australian Division at Wewak in New Guinea. Later in the month she returned to the Philippines for a brief visit to Manila. On 5 June she sailed from Subic Bay as a unit of Task Group 74.3 (flag in the cruiser USS NASHVILLE) to support the landing of the Australians at Brunei Bay in Borneo. The troops went ashore at dawn on 10 June under the cover of a naval bombardment of which ARUNTA's share was 500 rounds of 4.7-inch ammunition.

ARUNTA remained in the Borneo theatre giving fire support, including the bombardment of Lutong (414 rounds) from 20 to 22 June, when she departed for Tawi Tawi with Task Group 74.1 (SHROPSHIRE, HOBART, ARUNTA and US Ships METCALF and HART). On 27 June Task Group 74.1 returned to Borneo and that day began preliminary shelling of Balikpapan in preparation for the landing of Australian troops on 1 July. In these operations, which were unopposed at sea, ARUNTA fired 601 rounds of 4.7-inch ammunition in pre landing bombardments. In all on 1 July the covering force expended 38,052 shells ranging in calibre from 8-inch to 3-inch. Task Group 74.1 (SHROPSHIRE, HOBART, ARUNTA, USS A.W. GRANT and USS KILLEN) withdrew to Tawi Tawi on 3 July where ARUNTA remained until she sailed for Sydney on 11 July.

When VJ Day came on 15 August 1945, ARUNTA was refitting at Cockatoo Dock having steamed 184,368 miles on war service in the South West Pacific.

ARUNTA completed her refit at Sydney on 18 October 1945. On 25 October she arrived in Darwin, departing the same day escorting the repatriation ship ESPERANCE BAY to Timor and thence to Java. In November she proceeded to Japan via Morotai and Guam to join the occupation naval forces.

ARUNTA remained in Japanese waters as the Australian Squadron representative until March 1946. She returned to Sydney on 2 April with urgent defects which kept her in dockyard hands until the end of March. On 11 June, her crew having taken part in the Victory Parade the previous day, she sailed for a northern cruise flying the flag of Commodore John A. Collins CB RAN (Commodore Commanding Australian Squadron). She visited Port Moresby, Rabaul, Manus and Manila during a seven week cruise.

Following her return to Sydney from the Philippines on 18 July 1946, ARUNTA remained in home waters, mainly at Sydney, until 3 December when she sailed for Japan in company with SHROPSHIRE, where both ships came under the operational control of the Commander-in-Chief British Pacific Fleet. Kure was reached on 16 December.

ARUNTA spent the first three months of 1947 in Japanese waters on patrol and general duties as one of the British Occupation Force destroyers. In April she was relieved by HMAS QUIBERON, departing Kure on 7 April and arriving in Sydney on 21 April. Except for a winter cruise in Queensland waters, ARUNTA remained at Sydney until 10 November when she departed in company with her sister ship WARRAMUNGA for a second tour of post war duty in Japan.

ARUNTA returned to Sydney on 7 April 1948 following a 15 week tour of duty in Japan. In June she proceeded on a cruise in the Western Pacific, visiting Noumea, Vila, Suva and Tongatabu, where she fired a 21-gun Salute for Queen Salote. The remainder of the year was spent in home waters at Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne. In May 1948 she steamed her 250,000th mile.

On 21 January 1949 ARUNTA arrived in Sydney from Jervis Bay. For the next four years she was immobilised, passing to Cockatoo Dockyard control for modernisation in 1950. On 11 November 1952 she recommissioned under the command of Commander James M. Ramsay RAN.


The first year of ARUNTA's new commission was spent in Australian waters. At the end of 1953 she had steamed 15,000 miles, mostly on fleet exercises.

In January 1954 ARUNTA proceeded for service in the Far East, arriving in Hong Kong on 4 February and Kure on 23 February. Until September 1954 she operated as one of the Allied units of the Korean Patrol groups based on Japan. ARUNTA returned to Sydney to refit in October.

ARUNTA spent the first four months of 1955 in home waters mainly in the Sydney area. In mid May she proceeded for a second tour of duty in the Far East. On 29 May she departed Darwin in company with HMA Ships ANZAC, WARRAMUNGA, TOBRUK and QUADRANT and HMNZ Ships BLACK PRINCE and PUKAKI, for Singapore for exercises with the Far East Fleet. The exercises continued in Malayan waters until the close of June when ANZAC, TOBRUK and QUADRANT detached to return to Australia. ARUNTA began a three week refit at Singapore before joining WARRAMUNGA as the first Australian ships of the Strategic Reserve on the Far East Station. At the close of July ARUNTA proceeded to Hong Kong and thence to Japanese waters for exercises with American units. In October she returned to Malaya where she spent most of the remaining period of her 1955 Far East tour of duty. In December, ANZAC and TOBRUK relieved ARUNTA and WARRAMUNGA and on 5 December both ships sailed for Australia, arriving in Sydney on 19 December.

ARUNTA spent 1956 on the Australia Station. With the exception of a visit to New Guinea, New Britain and Manus in March and April 1956 and a visit to Norfolk Island in June for the Centenary of the landing of the Pitcairn Islanders, the entire period was spent in Australian home waters. On 14 June 1956 she arrived in Sydney flying her paying off pennant. On 21 December 1956 she passed to dockyard control for refitting for Operational Reserve. ARUNTA steamed 95,221 miles during her second commission bringing her total mileage to 357,273 since commissioning in 1942.

ARUNTA remained in Operational Reserve at Sydney from 1957 to 1968. She was sold for scrap to the China Steel Corporation of Taipei, Formosa, on 1 November 1968. On 13 February 1969 ARUNTA sank 65 miles off the New South Wales coast while under tow to Formosa by the Japanese tug TOKYO MARU.




_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 4843
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/9/2008 9:41:05 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
Why should a hit from a Mavis cause heavy damage on a CVE? The CVE was hit by a single 250kg AP bomb...

_____________________________


(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 4844
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/9/2008 11:55:18 AM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DW
Where was he supposed to launch small attacks covered by the USAAF that PZB actually had to defend?

[...]

He'd have likely done the same thing that he's been doing all along. React with a measured response to Andy's attacks with a careful eye on his pilot pools.



I think you are right in one way: Andy was never able to destroy the Japanese air force with his USAAF. The Japs would just be hiding.

But an extended period of somewhat slower advance using USAAF and friends only would still have lead to Allied victory, imho. This is because of the way the air forces recover from losses.

The Allied replacements work like a steady income of money. If you are in debt (squadrons not at full strenth and pools empty), you can save until you are in the green again. And then you can continue to save and build up assets for future expenses.

The Japanese recovery process is very different. They have only an extremely low income. Only f they are "in debt", they can raise a lot of extra "income" by training green pilots in China. If you give them 2 months, they can rebuild their entire air force from nothing. But if you give them more than that, they cannot use this extra time efficiently. If everything is at full strength, they may continue training for a few extra experience points, nothing more.

And here comes the point, where the USAAF (and USMC, Australia etc.) would have been useful: 6-9 months of advance without USN would probably mean 6-9 months without heavy air battles. It would not destroy the Japanese air force, the Allied advance would have been slowed by one or two months at this stage. But after this period, the USN would have very comfortable pools of everything.

Recall the big battles we have seen, e.g. Iwo Shima. In the end phase of the battles PzB was scraping together the last reserves from all over the empire. And Andy had to abort because he was running out and was not able to beat these last reserves. Now imagine Andy had another 6 months of production in the pool: He could come back for another blow immediately, crush those last reserves and still had enough to use his brand new total superiority. The Allies were unstoppable now, it is next to impossible for Japan to recover under such conditions.

Andy played straight into PzB's hands when he fought one USN-battle every 1-2 months. This is the optimal frequency for the Japanese. They can constantly attrit the USN and rebuild their losses easiely.

Months ago someone in this thread wrote some very wise words: "Slow is save, and save is fast." Every Allied player should print out this sentence in huge letters, frame it and pin it up above his monitor.

(in reply to DW)
Post #: 4845
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/9/2008 8:36:29 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
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Bogo, I said that... "Slow is safe and safe is fast"

DW,
That simple phrase is the answer to your contentions. Yes, the phases would have been slow but they would also have been overwhelming and to overwhelm 3 points in series was WELL within Andy's capabilities if he had begun his operations last year.

(in reply to Bogo Mil)
Post #: 4846
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/10/2008 12:00:28 PM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline
Sorry that I didn't credit you - I was just too lazy to search for a correct citation.

I think a good point to give the USN it's "pool building period" was after the destruction of the KB at New Guinea. There it is well possible to advance with LBA only.

In my opinion it was a good idea to attack Iwo Shima directly, without taking the heaviely defended Marianas first. But it was a bad idea to do that without the necessary reserves. The carriers are not a weapon to attrit the enemy, they are a weapon to crush him. If the USN has to retreat from a battle without completing it's objectives, without crushing the enemy, this operation was a total failure. All the losses they did to the enemy are worth nothing. The enemy might be more or less weakened for the moment, but without the USN you can not use this temporary weakness. If you come to Iwo with enough reserves to crush the enemy and to use your superiority afterwards, you have almost won the war. But if you fail, you have lost a lot. It is a decisive battle, and reserves are the key in decisive battles, always and everywhere, not only in witp.


(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 4847
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/10/2008 12:32:39 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
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IMHO Andy should have had concentrated all his forces in a single attack at IWO, without spreading them in India, IndoChina-Malaya, Luzon etc. One single Big blow, so that it would have been (almost) sure to defeat the jap LCUs on the first week, with the DS in cover of the landings.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Bogo Mil)
Post #: 4848
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/10/2008 2:17:12 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

IMHO Andy should have had concentrated all his forces in a single attack at IWO, without spreading them in India, IndoChina-Malaya, Luzon etc. One single Big blow, so that it would have been (almost) sure to defeat the jap LCUs on the first week, with the DS in cover of the landings.



would have led to a better position now for Andy but on the other hand I do find it strange if he would land 50 divisions there.

_____________________________


(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 4849
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/10/2008 4:49:04 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

IMHO Andy should have had concentrated all his forces in a single attack at IWO, without spreading them in India, IndoChina-Malaya, Luzon etc. One single Big blow, so that it would have been (almost) sure to defeat the jap LCUs on the first week, with the DS in cover of the landings.



would have led to a better position now for Andy but on the other hand I do find it strange if he would land 50 divisions there.


Seeing the defensive power of 9 level forts and x4 terrain, the game kinda encourages you to do that.

Sorry to bother you PzB, but how are your hi, oil and supplies holding up?

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 4850
RE: The last 100 days.... - 4/13/2008 9:57:18 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline
Had a long weekend away, now back to the never ending war...

Most CVE's I hit goes up into flames Bogo, go Ask Andy for the damage stats - pretty sure it's nicely torched

Supplies are dwindling, but HI and oil are still plentiful. The stock of HI has barely been drawn upon over the last
few months. Need to save what's left for the last round in 1946 now.

Andy has withdrawn all ships from Amami, left 2 destroyers which harassed our shipping.
Our LBA just couldn't dispatch of them.

As our defenses at Amami has been worn down Andy today got lucky with the rolls and mustered 2200 AP for a shock attack!!
We have only 1 fort level left - so Amami may fall tomorrow.

It's time to plan for the next stage. Have we hurt the enemy enough to delay another offensive against the Home Islands?
What is for sure is that enemy land based fighters will become a major pain and that 4Es will hit us hard in the months to
come. I need to dig out what reserves are left and prepare for the last stand.

There are 800 Shindens, 800 Franks and 200 other fighters left in the pools.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/03/45

Sub/ASW Attacks

Yanks got plenty of torps to spare...

Sub attack at 56,45

Japanese Ships
AG AG-2098, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Sablefish
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 58,44

Japanese Ships
AK Gyokurei Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Harder
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surface Combat

Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese Ships
AK Mutsuyo Maru, Shell hits 22, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD John Rodgers
DD Sigourney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese Ships
AP Fuso Maru, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD John Rodgers
DD Sigourney, Shell hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese Ships
AK Tsurushima Maru, Shell hits 12, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD John Rodgers
DD Sigourney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese Ships
AG AG-105, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
AG AG-108
AG AG-115
AG AG-353, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
AG AG-5071
AG AG-5114, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
AG AG-2060
AG AG-2085, Shell hits 8, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD John Rodgers
DD Sigourney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bombardments

Naval bombardment of Bombay, at 20,10 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

1 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
CL Santa Fe, Shell hits 1
CL Nashville
CL Phoenix
CLAA San Diego
CA Shropshire
BB North Carolina
BB California
BB Colorado

Japanese ground losses:
492 casualties reported
Guns lost 12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 16
TBM Avenger x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Reppu: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
133 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 6
Runway hits 8
Port hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Allied aircraft
Vengeance I x 11
Liberator VI x 12

Allied aircraft losses
Vengeance I: 2 damaged
Liberator VI: 7 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
110 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4
Port hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kadina , at 54,45

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 14
J7W Shinden x 76
C6N1-S Myrt x 7
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 14
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 17
Ki-100 Tony x 11

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
C6N1-S Myrt: 6 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-100 Tony: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amami , at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 1
A7M2 Reppu x 87
J7W Shinden x 5
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 8
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 28
Ki-100 Tony x 9
Ki-102a Randy x 2

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 12
Corsair IV x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 1 destroyed
A7M2 Reppu: 15 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-100 Tony: 6 destroyed
Ki-102a Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 12 destroyed
Corsair IV: 3 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 121st Naval Construction Battalion, at 27,21

Japanese aircraft
Ki-51 Sonia x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 34
D4Y Judy x 11
B7A Grace x 3
G4M2 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged
B7A Grace: 1 damaged
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Sigourney, Bomb hits 1
DD John Rodgers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 22
A6M5c Zeke x 6
G4M2 Betty x 3
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 11
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 6
Ki-100 Tony x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zeke: 6 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Sigourney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 14 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD John Rodgers
DD Sigourney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These 2 buggers were impossible to dispatch of...

Day Air attack on TF at 50,48

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Robinson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 17
G4M2 Betty x 3
E13A1 Jake x 3
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 19
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 15
Ki-100 Tony x 8
Ki-102a Randy x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD John Rodgers, Kamikaze hits 1, on fire
DD Sigourney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 52,45

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 4
Ki-49 Helen x 3
Ki-67 Peggy x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LSD Casa Grande, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Amami

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 276439 troops, 1619 guns, 2067 vehicles, Assault Value = 3946

Defending force 54255 troops, 186 guns, 17 vehicles, Assault Value = 966

Allied max assault: 5276 - adjusted assault: 2225

Japanese max defense: 718 - adjusted defense: 615

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Japanese ground losses:
7102 casualties reported
Guns lost 44
Vehicles lost 3

Allied ground losses:
3524 casualties reported
Guns lost 22
Vehicles lost 54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I abandoned Ahmadabad in order not to waste its garrison which is needed for defenses of Karachi!

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 10006 troops, 116 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 228

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied max assault: 205 - adjusted assault: 125

Japanese max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 125 to 1 (fort level 9)

Allied forces CAPTURE Ahmadabad base !!!


Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-100 Tony: 1 destroyed
------------------------------------------------------------------

Aces High

Our top aces have survived the heavy fighting and Matsuyama now has 34 kills.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 4851
Amami falls! - 4/14/2008 1:19:50 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
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4th of December 1945 - the airfields at Amami are in enemy hands...

We withdraw our air forces from the Okinawas to defend the Home Islands and refit.
A last effort is made to bring supplies to the besieged garrison and bring back units
that can be reformed.

Let's hope that this all out effort was worth it.
The Navy has been wiped out - 2 damaged battleships, 1 light cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 CS and 13 submarines remain.
The Air Force has taken heavy losses but can still be rebuilt to fight another day.
Our Shinden formations are still quite capable and experienced.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/04/45

Air Combat

Leaky CAP from Kadina face an enemy bomber sweep.
This is the only enemy major effort in the area today.

Day Air attack on Naha , at 54,46

Japanese aircraft
J7W Shinden x 28
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 3
Ki-84-Ic Frank x 6

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 1
P-38J Lightning x 56
PB4Y Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 12
B-29 Superfortress x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 25 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84-Ic Frank: 6 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 30 destroyed
PB4Y Liberator: 2 destroyed
B-24J Liberator: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged
B-29 Superfortress: 2 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Runway hits 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We attempt to bomb enemy troops on Amami but Japs just doesn't have the means for it.

Day Air attack on 40th USA Division, at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 23
G4M2 Betty x 10
P1Y Frances x 31
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 16
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 6
Ki-100 Tony x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 77th USA Division, at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 2
P1Y Frances x 7
Ki-100 Tony x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarakan at 33,61

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 5

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Shinzui Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,47

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 2

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 14
F6F Hellcat x 156
F4U-1 Corsair x 7
F4U-1D Corsair x 63

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,48

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 53
F4U-1D Corsair x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 49,48

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 9

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 9
F4U-1D Corsair x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 3 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Amami finally falls... Supply levels fell below minimum requirements while enemy
AV went up and this was enough to tilt the tables.

Ground combat at Amami

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 271034 troops, 1608 guns, 2026 vehicles, Assault Value = 3391

Defending force 47655 troops, 145 guns, 30 vehicles, Assault Value = 745

Allied max assault: 3772 - adjusted assault: 2328

Japanese max defense: 515 - adjusted defense: 222

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Amami base !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
J7W Shinden: 1 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
8345 casualties reported
Guns lost 49
Vehicles lost 11

Allied ground losses:
1507 casualties reported
Guns lost 9
Vehicles lost 27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bombay

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4708 troops, 162 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1150

Defending force 84718 troops, 580 guns, 185 vehicles, Assault Value = 1143

Japanese ground losses:
60 casualties reported
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Industry 12/45

Not bad, we're actually increased stocks - but most oil and supplies are trapped in isolated bases.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 4852
RE: Amami falls! - 4/14/2008 7:33:33 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
I was surprised to see Amami fall so fast. I thought you had damaged his ground troops pretty badly in his previous attacks. I wonder how long it will take for them to recover, or whether he has other troops to use.

You industry looks great except for the Mitsubishi engine stuff. Since you are going to need a massive number of Shindens to defend the HI, I imagine you are doing something about that. Yes?

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 4853
RE: Amami falls! - 4/15/2008 12:03:57 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline
Had also hoped it would last a bit longer Cap & Gown.
The combination of a good attack roll for the Allies, a poor one for us combined with supplies in the red
was enough to break the stalemate. Being outnumbered 6-1 is a poor thing.

At least the battle lasted for more than a month - almost like Iwo Jima.
Pretty sure 3/4 of enemy forces on Amami are wrecked and in need of several months of R&R.
Especially so since the fighting is still not over.

I can produce 600 Shindens a month and there are 700 in the pools.
Will monitor supply and demand.

Today fighters were dispersed around the Home Islands. Need to protect key areas against
strat bombers.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/05/45

Air Combat

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Allied aircraft
Vengeance I x 2
Liberator VI x 13

Allied aircraft losses
Vengeance I: 2 damaged
Liberator VI: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
119 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Runway hits 1
Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Naha , at 54,46

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 24
PB4Y Liberator x 7
B-24J Liberator x 3
B-29 Superfortress x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 2 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 2 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
J7W Shinden: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-29 Superfortress: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
121 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silly kamis picked a CV TF as target...RIP
Used some Ida's and launched from Batan Island - lots of targets around but of course, go get
the big juicy protected ones!-p)

Day Air attack on TF at 49,48

Japanese aircraft
Ki-36 Ida x 25

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 29
F6F Hellcat x 174
F4U-1 Corsair x 9
F4U-1D Corsair x 59

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-36 Ida: 25 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enemy CAP already in place in Amami!

Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 13
P-40N Warhawk x 18
P-47D Thunderbolt x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zeke: 3 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Used the turn to withdraw as many troops and cadres from Amami as possible.

Ground combat at Amami

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 270317 troops, 1632 guns, 2078 vehicles, Assault Value = 3259

Defending force 30673 troops, 51 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 415

Allied max assault: 3754 - adjusted assault: 2864

Japanese max defense: 287 - adjusted defense: 73

Allied assault odds: 39 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
9838 casualties reported
Guns lost 52
Vehicles lost 30

Allied ground losses:
1323 casualties reported
Guns lost 25
Vehicles lost 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bombay

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4700 troops, 161 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1178

Defending force 84871 troops, 590 guns, 185 vehicles, Assault Value = 1144

Japanese ground losses:
30 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suicide Ida's - kinda reminds me of the suicide squad in Life o' Brian




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 4854
RE: Amami falls! - 4/15/2008 6:22:49 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline
Quiet turn. Enemy is flying recon missions over Home Islands.
I'm trying to increase CAP defenses over important bases. Shattered units are slowly
regaining strength, rather green though. 50 exp units are now "experienced ones"

Another shock attack on Amami and most of the disabled squads are destroyed - only 2 units remain.
The last dozen transports carrying supplies to Amami loaded up troops and have now unloaded them
in Kyushu. Good thing Andy didn't get at them, they will soon be rebuilt and make any 46 invasion even
more of a challenge.

Seems like Andy is mopping up bases in the PI's.
We will see much of this in the next month(s).

Basically we have little to do but sit back and defend with no navy.
There are 400 LBA and it'll take another month to flesh them out to 700 and train the new recruits.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/06/45

Invasions

TF 1011 troops unloading over beach at San Jose, 41,53

Allied ground losses:
100 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1025 troops unloading over beach at Taytay, 39,53

Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Day Air attack on Naha , at 54,46

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 25
PB4Y Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 3

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
42 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Trivandrum , at 13,21

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 15
A-26B Invader x 47

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 13 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Port hits 4
Port supply hits 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 48,48

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 9

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 14
F4U-1D Corsair x 4
P-51D Mustang x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amami at 56,44

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 2

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 10
P-47D Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N Jill: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
PT PT-542
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at 43,53

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 274758 troops, 2656 guns, 479 vehicles, Assault Value = 5779

Defending force 17 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2

Allied max assault: 12186 - adjusted assault: 19214

Japanese max defense: 1 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 19214 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Amami

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 271502 troops, 1632 guns, 2115 vehicles, Assault Value = 3330

Defending force 23428 troops, 11 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 240

Allied max assault: 4438 - adjusted assault: 3797

Japanese max defense: 130 - adjusted defense: 37

Allied assault odds: 102 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
49049 casualties reported
Guns lost 309

Allied ground losses:
1406 casualties reported
Guns lost 22
Vehicles lost 13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bombay

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4692 troops, 160 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1210

Defending force 85304 troops, 598 guns, 185 vehicles, Assault Value = 1148

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lahore

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 550 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7

Defending force 387 troops, 3 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 20

Japanese max assault: 4 - adjusted assault: 2

Allied max defense: 16 - adjusted defense: 14

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Iloilo

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 90 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied max assault: 4 - adjusted assault: 6

Japanese max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 7)

Allied forces CAPTURE Iloilo base !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 4855
RE: Amami falls! - 4/16/2008 12:47:30 AM   
Fishbed

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline
What about Manchuria? You agreed not to do anything in the area, right?

That's very nice from Andy, but I wonder if it is not a little bit unfair for him... Shouldn't he be allowed to roll down the continent with the Red Army, even though you can't engage in air combat with him? It's not like if you could expect to stop him with sheer air power...

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 4856
RE: Amami falls! - 4/16/2008 3:35:30 AM   
GordoNZ

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

What about Manchuria? You agreed not to do anything in the area, right?

That's very nice from Andy, but I wonder if it is not a little bit unfair for him... Shouldn't he be allowed to roll down the continent with the Red Army, even though you can't engage in air combat with him? It's not like if you could expect to stop him with sheer air power...


Totally disagree The game now is about points and Andy needs lots of them for a win. PZB has no way to score points against Andy with his airforce.

But heck I am a Jap Fan Boy

(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 4857
RE: Amami falls! - 4/16/2008 7:24:31 AM   
Fishbed

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline
I am too. But I am a "fair play" fanboy too - not that I think we have to throw Andy a sugar for being such a merciful opponent so late in the war, but I think he just deserves it...!

Come on, it's not like if PzB was going to stop the steamroller or score a zillion points with his sole air force against the Soviets... If Andy promises not to use his air force, it looks ok to me. These Manchurian VPs should already be his, shouldn't they? The non-fighting in the north was already a good advantage for PzB so far... What does the Maestro thinks about this matter?


< Message edited by Fishbed -- 4/16/2008 7:41:19 AM >

(in reply to GordoNZ)
Post #: 4858
RE: Amami falls! - 4/16/2008 9:06:12 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
There were more problems than just the airfarce. The ground movement rules were allowing Andy to move his units right through PzBs lines. I saw that in a game I played. Made the idea of establishing a front impossible. The ground combat/movement system is totally FUBAR.

(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 4859
RE: Amami falls! - 4/16/2008 5:51:15 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline
Yes, there were multiple problems with the campaign in Manchuria.

1. Enemy units marched through Jap bases and units.
2. Jap ac were not allowed to fly offensive missions against USSR bases.
3. Soviet bases had not generated enough supplies to allow major offensive operations.

When Andy attacked Harbin he got a horrible assault modifiers because he lacked supplies.

All of these problems led to a cease fire agreement after Andy was allowed to leave USSR troops
in Harbin (and thus halting production of 200 Shindens there).

Unfortunately little beta testing (at least in the earlier stock versions) was conducted in this area.
Hopefully it has or will be fixed in later patches and AE. Since Andy is in charge of re-vamping the ground
combat model in AE I'm sure something good will come out of it!

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 4860
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