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Ao question - 5/8/2008 4:44:36 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Unlike many descrying the AO concept as too restrictive on the player I really like the concept and look forward to it.

One thing I hope for is that the AI will be AO limited as well as the player. Not because I want the AI to be any more handicapped against me than it already is, but because I see a definite benefit for the AI in being restricted by it.

One of the AI's weaknesses in this game system is it's inability to resist sending every last "in range" unit to pounce on a juicy target. The AI can easily be channelled and duped into going all out after a juicy target (read unit with only two steps) and leaving itself completely out of position to stop the player's next moves. If the AI has to operate under the restrictions of AOs than at least only the units of a given AO can fall prey to this tendency.

I also have an OT question: Was anything ever done to fix the CTD that occurs in the Kharkov scenario for DB when attempting to play as the Russians?
The sceanrio is wonderful, but no fun to play as German as the AI is far too easy to stop cold in attack. I really only play the attacking side in this game engine as that is where the fun is. With the scenario only working when the players takes the defensive side the scenario really isn't worth playing.
Post #: 1
RE: Ao question - 5/8/2008 7:42:54 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I guess the devs took the day off

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2
RE: Ao question - 5/9/2008 12:09:40 AM   
WhiteOwl

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Mate, the devs are aussies, your posts were at 11:44 PM and then at 2:42 AM (3 hours later), in Sydney time. It would be fair to say that the devs took a small part of the night off...

Cheers

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 3
RE: Ao question - 5/12/2008 1:59:38 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteOwl

Mate, the devs are aussies, your posts were at 11:44 PM and then at 2:42 AM (3 hours later), in Sydney time. It would be fair to say that the devs took a small part of the night off...

Cheers


So Aussies sleep for days on end?

(in reply to WhiteOwl)
Post #: 4
RE: Ao question - 5/12/2008 4:38:51 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		To be fair, they probably didn't want to come back after their "initial" welcome 

Still, I wish they would, 'cos I'm always willing to be converted

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5
RE: Ao question - 5/12/2008 7:15:40 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		Devs???

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6
RE: Ao question - 5/13/2008 4:15:28 AM   
Gregor_SSG


Posts: 681
Joined: 3/6/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Unlike many descrying the AO concept as too restrictive on the player I really like the concept and look forward to it.

One thing I hope for is that the AI will be AO limited as well as the player. Not because I want the AI to be any more handicapped against me than it already is, but because I see a definite benefit for the AI in being restricted by it.

One of the AI's weaknesses in this game system is it's inability to resist sending every last "in range" unit to pounce on a juicy target. The AI can easily be channelled and duped into going all out after a juicy target (read unit with only two steps) and leaving itself completely out of position to stop the player's next moves. If the AI has to operate under the restrictions of AOs than at least only the units of a given AO can fall prey to this tendency.

I also have an OT question: Was anything ever done to fix the CTD that occurs in the Kharkov scenario for DB when attempting to play as the Russians?
The sceanrio is wonderful, but no fun to play as German as the AI is far too easy to stop cold in attack. I really only play the attacking side in this game engine as that is where the fun is. With the scenario only working when the players takes the defensive side the scenario really isn't worth playing.


Sorry about the delay, I check the forums for new posts (almost) every day, don't know how this slipped through.

Anyway, yes if AOs are in use the AI will definitely obey the restrictions. I haven't seen a crashing bug in the Kharkov game for some time now, it has had some thorough testing.

I'm not sure of any way to proof the AI against deliberate sacrifice tactics except to say, perhaps, maybe you shouldn't do it. Naturally, how you actually play the game is up to you, but I would like to point out that such tactics won't work against a human player, who will smell a rat where the AI can't. I like to use my AI games to refine my tactics for PBEM games, so I always play them as if I were facing a human player. This both increases the fun and helps me in the harder PBEM games to come.

I can also say that in the Kharkov game both sides can find themselves mounting powerful attacks and defending grimly at the same time, so it should always be enjoyable for both sides.

Gregor

_____________________________

Vice President, Strategic Studies Group
See http://www.ssg.com.au and http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/
for info and free scenarios.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 7
RE: Ao question - 5/13/2008 1:50:23 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply Gregor.

I don't uinderstand the response on the Kharkov scenario for DB. When first released it had a bug that caused a CTD when playing Russian. Was it patched? Was it rereleased? The version I have CTDs when I try to play Russian. I beg to differ about either side being fun to play. When playing German I stop the AI cold and it never breaks through the German lines so the entire rest of the game becomes a WWI style static line battle on the eastern most third of the map.

I don't intentionally bait the AI in the DB series as doing so ruins the game. It's the occasional "forgot about this two step ubit alone in the line over here" or the "couldn't get anyne else to the hex to stack with the two step unit in the line" effects that guarantee the AI will go all out to kill them while leaving itself completely out of postion.

It's good news that the AI will be bound by the AO restrictions as I see that as hopefully mitigating the effect of an over aggressive AI.

(in reply to Gregor_SSG)
Post #: 8
RE: Ao question - 5/13/2008 2:04:25 PM   
Noakesy

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		I think Gregor is solely referring to the new game in his response, not really picking up on your issue with the user-scenario of Kharkov in DB.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 9
RE: Ao question - 5/14/2008 5:57:40 AM   
Gregor_SSG


Posts: 681
Joined: 3/6/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Thanks for the reply Gregor.

I don't uinderstand the response on the Kharkov scenario for DB. When first released it had a bug that caused a CTD when playing Russian. Was it patched? Was it rereleased? The version I have CTDs when I try to play Russian. I beg to differ about either side being fun to play. When playing German I stop the AI cold and it never breaks through the German lines so the entire rest of the game becomes a WWI style static line battle on the eastern most third of the map.

I don't intentionally bait the AI in the DB series as doing so ruins the game. It's the occasional "forgot about this two step ubit alone in the line over here" or the "couldn't get anyne else to the hex to stack with the two step unit in the line" effects that guarantee the AI will go all out to kill them while leaving itself completely out of postion.

It's good news that the AI will be bound by the AO restrictions as I see that as hopefully mitigating the effect of an over aggressive AI.


Sorry, crossed wires here, I'm talking about our new Kharkov game and I think you are, at times, referring to a user created scenario for one of our older games.

Gregor

_____________________________

Vice President, Strategic Studies Group
See http://www.ssg.com.au and http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/
for info and free scenarios.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 10
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