Ao question (Full Version)

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HansBolter -> Ao question (5/8/2008 4:44:36 PM)

Unlike many descrying the AO concept as too restrictive on the player I really like the concept and look forward to it.

One thing I hope for is that the AI will be AO limited as well as the player. Not because I want the AI to be any more handicapped against me than it already is, but because I see a definite benefit for the AI in being restricted by it.

One of the AI's weaknesses in this game system is it's inability to resist sending every last "in range" unit to pounce on a juicy target. The AI can easily be channelled and duped into going all out after a juicy target (read unit with only two steps) and leaving itself completely out of position to stop the player's next moves. If the AI has to operate under the restrictions of AOs than at least only the units of a given AO can fall prey to this tendency.

I also have an OT question: Was anything ever done to fix the CTD that occurs in the Kharkov scenario for DB when attempting to play as the Russians?
The sceanrio is wonderful, but no fun to play as German as the AI is far too easy to stop cold in attack. I really only play the attacking side in this game engine as that is where the fun is. With the scenario only working when the players takes the defensive side the scenario really isn't worth playing.



HansBolter -> RE: Ao question (5/8/2008 7:42:54 PM)

I guess the devs took the day off



WhiteOwl -> RE: Ao question (5/9/2008 12:09:40 AM)

Mate, the devs are aussies, your posts were at 11:44 PM and then at 2:42 AM (3 hours later), in Sydney time. It would be fair to say that the devs took a small part of the night off...

Cheers



HansBolter -> RE: Ao question (5/12/2008 1:59:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteOwl

Mate, the devs are aussies, your posts were at 11:44 PM and then at 2:42 AM (3 hours later), in Sydney time. It would be fair to say that the devs took a small part of the night off...

Cheers


So Aussies sleep for days on end?



JudgeDredd -> RE: Ao question (5/12/2008 4:38:51 PM)

To be fair, they probably didn't want to come back after their "initial" welcome [:'(]

Still, I wish they would, 'cos I'm always willing to be converted [;)]



Toby42 -> RE: Ao question (5/12/2008 7:15:40 PM)

Devs???



Gregor_SSG -> RE: Ao question (5/13/2008 4:15:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Unlike many descrying the AO concept as too restrictive on the player I really like the concept and look forward to it.

One thing I hope for is that the AI will be AO limited as well as the player. Not because I want the AI to be any more handicapped against me than it already is, but because I see a definite benefit for the AI in being restricted by it.

One of the AI's weaknesses in this game system is it's inability to resist sending every last "in range" unit to pounce on a juicy target. The AI can easily be channelled and duped into going all out after a juicy target (read unit with only two steps) and leaving itself completely out of position to stop the player's next moves. If the AI has to operate under the restrictions of AOs than at least only the units of a given AO can fall prey to this tendency.

I also have an OT question: Was anything ever done to fix the CTD that occurs in the Kharkov scenario for DB when attempting to play as the Russians?
The sceanrio is wonderful, but no fun to play as German as the AI is far too easy to stop cold in attack. I really only play the attacking side in this game engine as that is where the fun is. With the scenario only working when the players takes the defensive side the scenario really isn't worth playing.


Sorry about the delay, I check the forums for new posts (almost) every day, don't know how this slipped through.

Anyway, yes if AOs are in use the AI will definitely obey the restrictions. I haven't seen a crashing bug in the Kharkov game for some time now, it has had some thorough testing.

I'm not sure of any way to proof the AI against deliberate sacrifice tactics except to say, perhaps, maybe you shouldn't do it. Naturally, how you actually play the game is up to you, but I would like to point out that such tactics won't work against a human player, who will smell a rat where the AI can't. I like to use my AI games to refine my tactics for PBEM games, so I always play them as if I were facing a human player. This both increases the fun and helps me in the harder PBEM games to come.

I can also say that in the Kharkov game both sides can find themselves mounting powerful attacks and defending grimly at the same time, so it should always be enjoyable for both sides.

Gregor



HansBolter -> RE: Ao question (5/13/2008 1:50:23 PM)

Thanks for the reply Gregor.

I don't uinderstand the response on the Kharkov scenario for DB. When first released it had a bug that caused a CTD when playing Russian. Was it patched? Was it rereleased? The version I have CTDs when I try to play Russian. I beg to differ about either side being fun to play. When playing German I stop the AI cold and it never breaks through the German lines so the entire rest of the game becomes a WWI style static line battle on the eastern most third of the map.

I don't intentionally bait the AI in the DB series as doing so ruins the game. It's the occasional "forgot about this two step ubit alone in the line over here" or the "couldn't get anyne else to the hex to stack with the two step unit in the line" effects that guarantee the AI will go all out to kill them while leaving itself completely out of postion.

It's good news that the AI will be bound by the AO restrictions as I see that as hopefully mitigating the effect of an over aggressive AI.



Noakesy -> RE: Ao question (5/13/2008 2:04:25 PM)

I think Gregor is solely referring to the new game in his response, not really picking up on your issue with the user-scenario of Kharkov in DB.



Gregor_SSG -> RE: Ao question (5/14/2008 5:57:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Thanks for the reply Gregor.

I don't uinderstand the response on the Kharkov scenario for DB. When first released it had a bug that caused a CTD when playing Russian. Was it patched? Was it rereleased? The version I have CTDs when I try to play Russian. I beg to differ about either side being fun to play. When playing German I stop the AI cold and it never breaks through the German lines so the entire rest of the game becomes a WWI style static line battle on the eastern most third of the map.

I don't intentionally bait the AI in the DB series as doing so ruins the game. It's the occasional "forgot about this two step ubit alone in the line over here" or the "couldn't get anyne else to the hex to stack with the two step unit in the line" effects that guarantee the AI will go all out to kill them while leaving itself completely out of postion.

It's good news that the AI will be bound by the AO restrictions as I see that as hopefully mitigating the effect of an over aggressive AI.


Sorry, crossed wires here, I'm talking about our new Kharkov game and I think you are, at times, referring to a user created scenario for one of our older games.

Gregor



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