US arty delay, bug or not

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US arty delay, bug or not

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> US arty delay, bug or not

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US arty delay, bug or not - 4/4/2002 1:56:29 PM

JollyRoger

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Joined: 3/21/2002
From: finland
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when playing US in 7.1 artillery delays are 0.1 - on/offboard mtars, hows strike-element yms.

is this bug or is it intented so? :confused:
This off-balances the game a bit, i think.

All settings are ok.

there also seems to be a crash-bug in 7.1 thoug i havent been able to pin-point what causes it, but it happens while playing (single or hot-seat)- when firing, the spwaw just crashes. and (hotseat) when loading "hotseat autosave" the situation goes back 2 turns, BUT the changes made in those lost turns are still valid. weird, huh.

Post #: 1

- 4/4/2002 2:13:57 PM

Supervisor

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The artillery delays of 0.1 are an inherent problem form the original SP series. What was the last full ver of SPWAW you installed, your crashes could be sound related. Try turning of all sounds, and then run the game directly from the mech.exe file. See if these help and then will work from there.

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Post #: 2

Re: US arty delay, bug or not - 4/4/2002 2:45:06 PM

john g

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JollyRoger
[B]when playing US in 7.1 artillery delays are 0.1 - on/offboard mtars, hows strike-element yms.

is this bug or is it intented so? :confused:
This off-balances the game a bit, i think.

All settings are ok.

[/B][/QUOTE]

It is intended, the US had the fastest response artillery during the war, so that is part of their national characteristic.

It has been hashed over in the past, the real delays are really more like 1-2 turns for the US, but then more like 8-10 turns for everyone else. The artillery is sped up for everyone so that the ai is able to use artillery at all. If it had an 8 turn lead time the artillery wouldn't fire at all. The US are meant to use masses of artillery to take out or suppress the enemy, it keeps losses low enough that the folks back home don't get upset.

Even as recently as the Gulf War the same procedure was used, massed firepower from arty and aircraft before the ground troops went in.
thanks, John.

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Post #: 3

- 4/4/2002 3:01:17 PM

Goblin

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Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
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When you start fighting PzIV's, V's, and VI's with your frail, Swiss-cheese-look-alike, BB-gun-mounting Shermans (Thats right Jess!!), you will view the arty response time as a balancing factor, not as an unbalancing factor!;) (You might even be able to add Pz III's to that list):D

Goblin

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Post #: 4

- 4/4/2002 10:07:15 PM

JollyRoger

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Joined: 3/21/2002
From: finland
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Thanks for the advice :)

And about the arty, well, my hotseat adversary says it is really a unbalancing factor after several crushing defeats ;)

it is true, that defeating german without massive barrages would be difficult indeed.

One country has good tanks, one has good arty, one has lots of living power and steel and so on...

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Post #: 5

- 4/4/2002 10:50:56 PM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
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Still the 0.1 is a ridiculously extreme delay. I prefer playing without Forward Observers since that will correct SOME of it. It is not that difficult to use artillery even though delays are increased. In Spww2 delays are around 3 turns IIRC, and the SHIFT FIRE still allows for effective arty.

The problem with 0.1 delay is more than the mere number: when rounds fall just after hitting end turn button, it is easily possible to hit even very fast moving units. Also it is "surprisingly" effective against ambushes and the like - instant suppression.

Even though e.g. fast response arty is fast IRC, artillery delays are IMO the worst error in SPWAW :(

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Post #: 6

- 4/4/2002 11:43:35 PM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

We alocated time to try to fix it and it casued more bugs than it solved. After that we decided to spend our time fixing it fully for Combat Leader. There are ways around the problem, turning off national charteristics is the "quick and dirty way", using freds editor to give the US player really low arty skill, adding units ot the OOB etc.

Artilllery needs a complete overhaul - having it stuck at the end of the turn in one big ball is the "real" source of teh problem more than anything else. Real artillery bombardmens are continuous events.

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Post #: 7

- 4/4/2002 11:55:46 PM

Charles2222

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In my case I don't find the .01 delay for artillery all that terribly annoying, because it seems like the AI bombards me non-stop anyway. As well, if you set up your bombard pre-targets well enough, you can continually shift-bombard from it, with the .01 delay.

One thing I don't get though, is what the delays mean. Does .01 mean bombarding at the first of the enemy turn? Does .05 mean it happens at the end of the enemy turn? And what about delays inbetween?

If it's true, that the US has only .01 delay on airpower, then that's the most unbalanced. What it basically does is assure that they're the only ones who can reliably blast the very target they're aiming for. Do, the regular bombardment screens allow aircarft to shift-fire too? That would diminish the US advantage there somewhat.

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Post #: 8

- 4/5/2002 12:59:14 AM

lnp4668

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Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Arlington, TX, USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22
[B]In my case I don't find the .01 delay for artillery all that terribly annoying, because it seems like the AI bombards me non-stop anyway. As well, if you set up your bombard pre-targets well enough, you can continually shift-bombard from it, with the .01 delay.

One thing I don't get though, is what the delays mean. Does .01 mean bombarding at the first of the enemy turn? Does .05 mean it happens at the end of the enemy turn? And what about delays inbetween?

If it's true, that the US has only .01 delay on airpower, then that's the most unbalanced. What it basically does is assure that they're the only ones who can reliably blast the very target they're aiming for. Do, the regular bombardment screens allow aircarft to shift-fire too? That would diminish the US advantage there somewhat. [/B][/QUOTE]

.1 artillery falls at beginning and end of enemy round
.2 artillery falls at beginning of enemy round, not sure if it falls at end of enemy round
.3 to .5 falls at ends of enemy round, not sure if there are differences between increments

US only have .1 delays for onboard artillery and fast artillery call in by FO. US air are minimum .4 if they are not preplot. Also, you can't shift fire with air.

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Post #: 9

- 4/5/2002 1:08:43 AM

Charles2222

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Inp4668: Thanks. It's good to hear something as foolish as .01 aircraft delay doesn't work, as well as using shift-bombard to get it off the runway faster.

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Post #: 10

- 4/5/2002 12:12:14 PM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
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Little correction: .1 or .2 falls at the end of your current turn (with .2 some falls at beginning of enemy turn); .3 to .5 falls during the next enemy turn; 1.0 falls at the end of your next turn (1 full turn later). Check out page 72 of the game manual.

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Post #: 11

- 4/5/2002 8:55:28 PM

Charles2222

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tracer: Thanks! I'll give a bit of perusal. I used to always think with the decimal and all, that it was a matter of the program dividing the enemy turn into tenths (or if there were only .1 - .5 of twentieths).

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Post #: 12

- 4/6/2002 8:18:14 AM

Charles2222

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Here's something I think will prove a bit shocking to some of us. Here's the pg. 72 quote.

quote:

Time on Target: This indicates the delay before the barrage or aircraft arrives. The delay
length is the number of turns it takes the artillery to get a fix on the target, fire the shells, and
for the shells to strike. For example, a 0 means the unit can fire at the end of the current turn,
and a 1 means the unit cannot fire until the end of the next turn and so on. A barrage arrives
in the vicinity of the target at the end of your turn, from 0 to several turns later, depending on
the type of Indirect Fire requested and quality of the crew in question. Frequently, the arrival
time is expressed as a number plus some decimal fraction, for example, 1.3. This means that
the Indirect Fire is going to arrive over two turns, with three quarters arriving one phase and
the other quarter arriving in the next. A delay of 0.2 or less will arrive in the current turn, 0.3to
.5 will fall in the next and 1.0 or higher a whole turn (two fire phases) later.
You can change the arrival time of the initial bombardment or
airstrike by canceling the fire mission and then typing the
letter �T� to change the ETA. A popup box will ask for turn to
enter or fire. Type this in and reassign the fire mission.

I sure didn't know about using the "T", nor did I know the code in some instances was talking about it arriving in partial sets at times. And to think I'm learnign some of these things just when CL is around the corner. It's about enough to make a grown man weep:o

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Post #: 13

- 4/6/2002 8:53:30 AM

Fallschirmjager

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Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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Charles_22 thank you very very much.

44 Soviets in LV dont thank you as much but thats ok.

With this amazing T button I can stagger my artillary to fire my light stuff, heavy stuff and Aircraft all in the same time frame.
I can also lighty harass them them with mortars to slow them down then bring in my heavies and crush them.

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Post #: 14

- 4/6/2002 12:11:19 PM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
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Note: That 'T' trick only works for the [I]opening[/I] bombardment...the one you can order during deployment. Its also how you plan the arrival time of paratroops and gliders.

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Post #: 15